Oh boy... (actually GIRL) - What have I DONE????

[Julz]

May God bless you and Baby Emma tremendously for both of your efforts. You are truly and Earth Angel. Please grow and thrive Baby Emma.

[dianethomas]

Originally Posted by Mom2BabyNatalie

Well...... four hours at the vet's.....

She can't open her mouth for the syringe OR the dropper right now.... so yeah... I did.... I had to tube her............................ and I HATED IT!!!

She fought me - and screamed - and sqirmed.... this, all before I even got the tube passed her tongue!! It's the pain of opening her mouth..... I felt like a MONSTER forcing her... but I know it can't be helped....

I pray to God that I got the tube in the tummy and not the lungs.... though I guess I'd know by now?? Maybe?? Ugh!!! I hate this!!!

Tubing is really no better than anything else.... it has lots of risks... lots of potential for infection... and the risk of aspiration is still there..... and I hate it hate it hate it!!! (did I mention I really don't like doing it?)

Not to mention... at least with her nursing... or taking the dropper or syringe... if she aspirates at all, it's gonna' be on a matter of DROPS.... a mouthful maybe...... if I get the tube in her lungs... she's gonna' get 2 full cc's filling her chest cavity!!! I HATE THIS!!!!!!!!!!!

Moving on now..... (sorry)..... okay, so she's home... fed.... and wiggling around her "newly designed" crib. (which SHE HATES!!!)

Dena, If you have to continue with the tubing, she will stop fighting it after a few times. She will learn to associate the tube with a comfy full tummy. I also worried about putting the tube in wrong. If you get it in and give her a split second to catch a breath, you will know you have it in correctly. She won't be able to breathe if you have it in wrong. But you will know immediately, so don't let that frighten you. Make sure when you pull it out that you do so in one swift motion. That way it doesn't trigger her gag reflex and induce vomiting. It is much worse for her to aspirate vomit than the formula . It helped for me to have an extra pair of hands until I really learned how to do it. There is too much for one person to do it effectively when you are just learning. (holding Emma, the tube from sliding out, and the syringe is hard enough, but somehow you have to function the plunger, too.) It will get easier with practice.
The other option my vet gave me was a pick line into Z's stomach from the side. It is kind of like a port you hook a syringe into for feeding. He wasn't big on the idea, because it was a risk for infection, but you have a different situation. Emma has open wounds in her mouth, and is already at risk for infection.
Just a thought.

[Mom2BabyNatalie]

I did ask the doctors about a surgically inserted feeding tube.... I thought that would be the easiest way for her to feed - - - but I'm told that is a major surgery and something they wouldn't even consider at this point.... she's far too young and far too small.

They wouldn't even give her anesthesia for the oral surgery of her palate and cleft lip... no way could they do a belly implant without putting her under.

Risk of infection is almost triple tube feeding, so that's very scary as well.

I'm certainly learning a lot. Thanks for the help!!

[bren4bears]

My prayers and blessings go out to Dena and baby Emma. I know you both must be exhausted. I know Dena won't give up and Emma is such a fighter.
Together they make a great team!! Hang in there you two. The outcome will be so worth it! I hope my donation to the Emma Fund can be of some use. Here's to a speedy recovery Lil Emma.

[dianethomas]

Originally Posted by Mom2BabyNatalie

I did ask the doctors about a surgically inserted feeding tube.... I thought that would be the easiest way for her to feed - - - but I'm told that is a major surgery and something they wouldn't even consider at this point.... she's far too young and far too small.

They wouldn't even give her anesthesia for the oral surgery of her palate and cleft lip... no way could they do a belly implant without putting her under.

Risk of infection is almost triple tube feeding, so that's very scary as well.

I'm certainly learning a lot. Thanks for the help!!

Wow, Dena! I have to commend you for all the research you have done. I could have used all the help you are getting here, but didn't know to reach out for it until he was past the crisis. The people on YT are so helpful, innovative and loving. This is a great support. To all y'all on this forum, I can't say how great it is to see you pulling for Emma and Dena in the tough hours.
And Dena, as much as we love the updates, don't forget to get some sleep in when you can, sweetie.
Love the sign in the crib, too.

[Jokerman]

Dena,
I just wanted to thank our for trying to save this tiny baby, and let you know I'm sending prayers your way. And to also encourage you on the tube feeding. I've had to tube feed dozens of puppies and wildlife babies in my years of rehabbing animals, and I've never lost a baby. So, even though it's frightening in the beginning, it does get much easier each time you do it. I find it safer and easier in many instances than bottle feeding. Just dip the end of the tube down into the formula to wet it, and gently move it down her throat. As long as you have measured her body correctly and pass it to the bottom of her last rib, I can't see how you would aspirate her.

I also wanted to let you know about Catac nipples in case you haven't heard of them. These are what I always use on baby squirrels and they would probably be a better fit for little Emma's mouth than the nipples you are using. You might call around and see if you can find them locally. If not, they are available through KV Vet Supply and you could probably get them overnighted to you. I also recommend using 3cc O-ring syringes, as they work so much better than the plunger type syringes with the rubber on the plunger, which wear out too fast.

If I can help you in any way, please PM me.

[Mom2BabyNatalie]

Originally Posted by Jokerman

Dena,
I just wanted to thank our for trying to save this tiny baby, and let you know I'm sending prayers your way. And to also encourage you on the tube feeding. I've had to tube feed dozens of puppies and wildlife babies in my years of rehabbing animals, and I've never lost a baby. So, even though it's frightening in the beginning, it does get much easier each time you do it. I find it safer and easier in many instances than bottle feeding. Just dip the end of the tube down into the formula to wet it, and gently move it down her throat. As long as you have measured her body correctly and pass it to the bottom of her last rib, I can't see how you would aspirate her.

I also wanted to let you know about Catac nipples in case you haven't heard of them. These are what I always use on baby squirrels and they would probably be a better fit for little Emma's mouth than the nipples you are using. You might call around and see if you can find them locally. If not, they are available through KV Vet Supply and you could probably get them overnighted to you. I also recommend using 3cc O-ring syringes, as they work so much better than the plunger type syringes with the rubber on the plunger, which wear out too fast.

If I can help you in any way, please PM me.

Wait wait wait... okay.... now see?? More stuff I didn't know!!!

Thank you so much!!

Okay now.... dipping the tip of the tube in the formula... DUH!!! Completely dumbfounded by the simplicity of that one!! I feel stupid... no wonder she fights it!! Dry tube probably hurts like hell!! Thank you thank you for that one!!! <<slapping self>>

Catac nipples and O-ring syringes... never heard of.... we have a vet supply store not too far down the road... will try to get over there in the next couple of days to find those.... gonna' go read about these things now....

Again and again.... THANK YOU!!! <<big hugs>>

[Julz]

Your avatar should say Mamma2BabyNatalieAND2BabyEmma

[Mom2BabyNatalie]

Originally Posted by Julz

Your avatar should say Mamma2BabyNatalieAND2BabyEmma

hahaha.... well, if I did that, I'm afraid I would have to add...

Mom2BabyNatalieAND2BabyEmmaAND2BabyGracieAND2BabyM iaAND2BabyAmeliaAND2MissKissyAND2LittleManSebastia nANDStepMommy2MissCessyANDGrammy2BabyJethro (and those are JUST the furkids!!)

Think Admin would allow that???? LOL

[DvlshAngel985]

Prob not, you'd have to add all your skin kids too! Just trying to make it accurate. Just kidding:P
I wanted to ask if there is anything other than receiving blankets you might need for baby Emma?

[Mom2BabyNatalie]

Originally Posted by DvlshAngel985

Prob not, you'd have to add all your skin kids too! Just trying to make it accurate. Just kidding:P
I wanted to ask if there is anything other than receiving blankets you might need for baby Emma?

Awww, thanks for asking.... I think we're pretty good on other "stuffs" for the moment... I'm stocked up on the basics I think... I'll need to pick up some more formula this week... and another bottle of the STAT... but 'course I get those things here locally.... I'm chock full of baby wipes, nutri-cal, etc. so the receiving blankets and crib sheets are the only things I can think of for the time being. (Unless of course you wanna' overnight us a lil' happy mama dog who wants to adopt a baby girl!!) lol

Thank you once more for thinking of our little angel....

[Julz]

Originally Posted by Mom2BabyNatalie

hahaha.... well, if I did that, I'm afraid I would have to add...

Mom2BabyNatalieAND2BabyEmmaAND2BabyGracieAND2BabyM iaAND2BabyAmeliaAND2MissKissyAND2LittleManSebastia nANDStepMommy2MissCessyANDGrammy2BabyJethro (and those are JUST the furkids!!)

Think Admin would allow that???? LOL

Phew!!!!! You would need a LOT more room for your avatar!!! How about "EarthAngel2BabyEmma". I just love you for what you are doing

[lulababy]

I really hope she makes it through this. It is really heartbreaking reading about all her surgeries and the stitches coming out. I can't believe that doctor was so uncaring today. I hope she heals up this time and the stitches dont come out. I never pray, im agnostic, but i'm praying for baby emma.

[King Bombo]

I hope Emma lives a long full life of enjoyment in your lap.

I want to tell you my experiences with Bombo, a cleft palate puppy. This might give you more hope, as well as awareness of issues down the line


The vets who've seen Bombo have all expressed surprise that he is alive. He has a severe cleft palate. He's now 9 months and doing great. He is going to UC Davis Veterinary School on August 18 to have surgery to correct his cleft palate. This will be done by two oral surgeons with a gaggle of students looking on. We waited until his jaw had matured. With earlier surgeries there is risk that as the oral cavity grew, it would rip apart the newly repaired area.

Some basics of how I kept Bombo alive:

1. He was tube-fed colostrum for the first three weeks.
2. He transitioned to kitten kibble, which are around the size of tiny pellets. He swallowed those whole.
3. He gets water from a lixit bottle. On the road, he drinks from a dropper, syringe, or water bottle with a spout. The idea is to have his head tilted back as he drinks to avoid having it go into his nasal areas.
4. He is on hard kibble only. No pastes like Nutrical, no soft food, no thick liquids. Water only.
5. He takes antibiotics prophylactically. Before doing that, he had 4 or 5 sinus infections and one low-grade pneumonia episode. We compound azithromax into 7 mg beef tab. I coat that with a little olive oil and slip it down at the back of his throat. With green discharge, we add clavamox twice a day.
6. I suction when he has discharge in his nose, using a baby bulb syringe. In prior days, I had to suction several times a day and also at night. He could not eat when he was congested. These days, he's doing so well, he does not need suctioning.
7. Be on the lookout for hypoglycemia. In my guy, it started with shivering and then led to incoordination and falling over. I drop whole kibble down his throat to get him going again.

I hope these tips might be of help to you and Emma.

Good luck.
Amy

[Julz]

Wow Amy! Sounds like you have done such an outstanding job and have learned so much. How kind of you to share all of your knowledge which had to have been full of trial and error. I am so glad to hear that your puppy is doing so well now. Sounds like there is no way he would have survived without you. You have done a truly awesome job and I bet he rewards you every day with TONS of love and faithfullness