OK, now I'm MAD!!!

[diva pup]

I don't ship so I have no idea about the vaccines/meds needed for that. But, I do know that a responsible breeder will tell the buyer to make a vet appt (BEFORE they get their puppy) to have the puppy checked before it is brought into its new home. No need to contaminate your home and the puppy's forever home. IMO, Albon, or any other med should not be sent with a puppy but if a breeder has reason to do that the instructions should very clearly be marked with "DO NOT ADMINISTER THIS, OR ANY MED, TO YOUR NEW PUPPY UNTIL A REPUTABLE VET HAS SEEN THE PUPPY, DIAGNOSED THE PROBLEM AND CALCULATED THE CORRECT DOSE AND ORDERED THE MED TO BE STARTED, CONTINUED OR DISCONTINUED!"
Simple enough! What if the dosage is not correct, or the puppy has another condition other than Coccidia and the proper meds cannot be used because it will interact unfavorably with the med the BREEDER or BROKER sent.
JMHO
Yesterday 04:55 AM


Whispersmom, I couldnt agree with you more. it IS very simple.

I love my breeder, I feel like she is one of the best however I would NEVER just give meds without a diagnosis from a vet. IMO neither should anyone else. .

[SoCalyorkiLvr]

If we can trust breeders to deliver puppies, give shots, remove dew claws and dock tails, then I think we can trust them to properly prescibe preventative doses of albon after 20 years of litters.JMHO

[LvMyYorki]

JMHO... I wouldnt buy from a broker to begin with, muchless let them administer "preventive" anitbiotics. An antiobiotic is not to be used as preventive treatment... I asked my breeder and my vet their opinion... both of them laughed.

[diva pup]

And IMHO there should be no reason for a PREVENTATIVE dose of anything. If I am paying 1200 and up for a puppy I would like it to come with NO problems. Again, a good breeder SHOULD know if there is a problem BEFORE they ship out the puppy.
If they have coccidia in their kennel it needs to be taken care of and they DO know. Mistakes happen, a single incident is one thing, a continual problem is another.What you are talking about is a continual problem or there would be no need for a "preventative" dose in a puppy kit. Furthermore, if a dog has coccidia it needs to be treated with more than a "preventative" dose.

[SoCalyorkiLvr]

Originally Posted by SoCalyorkiLvr

Coccidia usually lies dormant in puppies and is "activated" so to speak by stress. I doubt she had it when she left the breeder and it probably developed when she was moved from one place to another so many times.

Wow, thanks for keepin' me on my toes and learning! I hope everyone else is as interested in this subject as some of you seem to be.

In answer to the last question, there is no way for the breeder to know if the puppy has coccidia before it leaves. If you read my post #21 in this thread where I pasted an article from a vet about coccidia, it states that a fecal test is needed to determine if a puppy has coccidia or not and that quite frequently they will test negative on the first test and have to have several fecal tests for it to show up. The parasites are microscopic and cannot be seen by the naked eye.

It is also common for the parasites to be activated by stress when a puppy's immune system may not be as strong to ward it off. This stress is common when a puppy goes to it's new home. So, ergo, the puppy may not have had the condition when it was at the breeder's.

I don't think that a fecal test is a routine test for a breeder to do before a puppy leaves even if they have had a prior incidence of coccidia. They would obviously do it if a puppy left and there were still littermates left when it is discovered that the one who left first in fact developed coccidia.Maybe the breeders on here know if it is a common practice to do fecals before a puppy leaves. It is obviously a good idea when you take a puppy to the vet for the first time but I don't think even then that a fecal is routine during a first exam. At least I don't remember it being so. I think it is only done if there is diarhea or some other reason to suspect some problem but I may be mistaken and I am sure you will correct me if I am. I know it costs about $50 because when Chai had a cold and had a runny stool, I took a sample in with me and they tested it.

It sounds from the responses to this thread that some breeders do send the albon in the puppy care package and some don't. It must just be a personal preference for some and I don't really think any of you are trying to say that the good breeders don't send it and the bad ones do because that really makes no sense imo. The albon is not harmful if the puppy doesn't have coccidia. Why not be safe since it is so common? Coccidia is not a sign of poor breeding practices. Again refer to the source I quoted in post #21. It sounds like you disagree with that.

As for not sending a puppy with a preventative dose of anything...I welcomed my breeder's emergency low blood sugar kit since I purchased two tinies, neither of which had had a previous hypoglycemia episode, but it is always better to be safe since we know it is common in yorkie puppies, as well as the tube of nutrical she provided. Why not be prepared?

Yes, if I pay a large amount for my puppy I want everything she can give me. I got crates, blankets, carriers, toys, written instructions, books, food, pedialyte, and all sorts of goodies, including the first vet visit prepaid. I think they were great. I received this treatment from both breeders I bought from. hey are both friends now.

[Prissy012899]

Originally Posted by diva pup

And IMHO there should be no reason for a PREVENTATIVE dose of anything. If I am paying 1200 and up for a puppy I would like it to come with NO problems. Again, a good breeder SHOULD know if there is a problem BEFORE they ship out the puppy.
If they have coccidia in their kennel it needs to be taken care of and they DO know. Mistakes happen, a single incident is one thing, a continual problem is another.What you are talking about is a continual problem or there would be no need for a "preventative" dose in a puppy kit. Furthermore, if a dog has coccidia it needs to be treated with more than a "preventative" dose.

If a breeder has coccidia in his/her kennel/home how are they suppose to get rid of it if the pups are getting it from the bitch, in turn pups get it from pups, ect....
Bleach does NOT KILL coccidia oocyst. So if its in the enviroment the next litter can get it from enviroment.. Correct me if I'm wrong and is there a treatment for the bitch to prevent the pups from getting it to start with?
Inquiring minds are curious.

[Carters Mom]

Originally Posted by SoCalyorkiLvr

If we can trust breeders to deliver puppies, give shots, remove dew claws and dock tails, then I think we can trust them to properly prescibe preventative doses of albon after 20 years of litters.JMHO

That is a broad generalization there.

[Luvmypupster]

Just for the record...neither of my dogs came with albon in their care packages and neither one of them ever needed it. They both came from very reputable breeders, not brokers. Mia's care package was fantastic! She had food, toys, bows, hairbands and a bed! :-)

[diva pup]

If a breeder has coccidia in his/her kennel/home how are they suppose to get rid of it if the pups are getting it from the bitch, in turn pups get it from pups, ect....
Bleach does NOT KILL coccidia oocyst. So if its in the enviroment the next litter can get it from enviroment.. Correct me if I'm wrong and is there a treatment for the bitch to prevent the pups from getting it to start with?
Inquiring minds are curious.

I have never had a breeding kennel nor bought a puppy with coccidia. From what I understand however you can treat an entire kennel of adults as well as puppies for an outbreak of coccidia. And STEAM does kill coccidia. I do not have a nolvason bottle handy but I would guess that too would kill coccidia,so that would be a guess only.
If we are talking LOTS of dogs and/or outdoor kennels I can imagine that it would be cost prohibitive if not darn near impossible.My breeder told me she once knew a kennel that had an outbreak of coccidia and when it kept recurring they ended up torching the floors to get rid of it. I guess it is all about how much effort you want to put into it.

[Gizmo's Mom]

Reading about the stress that these babies go thru in being shipped kind of makes one wonder how people put them thru it. I'm new at this bare with me. In a lot of posts I read about how many hours the new parents drove to pick up their new fuzzies, sure seems like the more heartfelt thing to do. If I actually had the money for another I don't think I would get one that was so far away it had to be shipped to me. I look at Giz and just don't know what I would do if it would have happened to him, he's my heart.

[diva pup]

I can see what you mean. My last breeder did not ship. i drove to meet her at a dog show. She wouldn't ship such a long way or such a small dog. I appreciated that. My first breeder did ship but my boy was a much bigger pup and even tho he got laid over he was fine I did pay extra and he did not come in the cargo area but not all airlines offer that service. I think it is safe but that is JMO.

[SoCalyorkiLvr]

Hi Gizmo:

I actually had one of mine shipped and had a good experience. There are several really great threads on here where a lot of people describe their experiences with shipping. One was fairly recent and a search would bring it up for you to read.

This baby unfortunately had a terrible time I think because the proper and normal procedures that a breeder would make sure of were not followed and she was not on a direct flight.

I think we all agree that buying a puppy locally is always best but not always possible.

Welcome to Yorkie Talk!

[red98vett]

Originally Posted by SoCalyorkiLvr

I guess I was lucky with my breeder/broker but my second breeder was the same way. She knows more than the vets and the other breeders I have met recently while searching for my new baby have said the same thing and most of them have been bredding for 20+ years, so I think it's true and it actually makes sense when you think about it. The average vet sees all kinds of different animals, not just dogs and it would be hard, actually impossible, to learn everything, all the idiosyncracies of a particular breed unless you "specialize" in small bred dogs.

If anyone knows of a small breed dog vet in southern California, I would love the referral.

I'm not saying anything mean here - I'm just freaking out over all these posts about something that may be common... but CAN BE LIFE THREATENING !!!

I just really would leave some of this to the EXPERTS instead of posting so much information that sends mixed signals ....when someone has coccidia or any illness - a VET visit is in order - not all breeders will own up to it nor should they treat the puppy - POSTING how common this is can give the wrong signal - They can Dehydrate VERY VERY EASILY with coccidia and DIE.

I'm sorry to post like this but I feel VERY strongly about this - Chanel did ALMOST DIE because of HER BREEDER - if I hadn't taken her to the emergency room I'd have had a DEAD BABY and this is NOT the advise to be giving new Yorkie Parents. Coccidia and any illness need a doctors care. PERIOD.

Again - this isn't directed as a personal attack....I would say this to anyone because I feel very strongly about this ....

I stress that anyone with a new puppy who has a parasite needs to be under a VETS CARE.

[Luvmypupster]

Unfortunatley these tiny breeds can go down hill very quickly and die. I have seen it happen again and again from fellow forum members. If anyone has a sick puppy the best thing you can do is take it to the vet. Yes it cost money everytime you go but why risk having a puppy die.

[StewiesMom]

Maybe we should remember that Figment needs our help and support and hopefully some kind words of wisdom from people who have experience with what she's going through.