OK, now I'm MAD!!!

[suzysmitt]

I feel so sad for your and your pup. I will definetly pray for you. I'm having all kinds of problems with my new pup too, and it does make you very angry with the people.

[LvMyYorki]

Originally Posted by SoCalyorkiLvr

Yes, they did it because they knew their kennel could be infected. ALL kennels have the potential to be infected . It is having forethought and taking preventive measures to treat every puppy when they are placed under the stress of moving to a new home that causes some responsible breeders to include this medication in their puppy care packages and instructions

Interview a few vets and they will tell you just how common this malady is in the first few days and weeks of a puppy going to it's new home. It is not something breeders can prevent 100%. They can only do their best!
To criticize breeders for taking this preventive measure is short sighted in my opinion.

Kim- These are puppy brokers we're talking about, you've said/ posted on several occassions that you got Buddah from a broker. I would imagine that coccidia is common in their kennels and would have a higher potential of being infected since these dogs are coming from different breeders that have different breeding practices.

If this is appearing in the "first few days or weeks" of the pup going to its new home, then the puppy had it when they came to their new home. It takes weeks for a dog to show any symptoms! This is medical fact, not "my opinion."

As far as including ALBON as preventative... maybe. Prevention, in my mind would be to have a clean kennel so that my dogs didnt have parasites. One of the primary causes of coccidia in puppies is that its passed from the mother to the litter, so its quite likely that is the case.

Thank you for the advice regarding interviewing vets.... I do that already Kim, but thanks for the tip. I can only speak from my experience, but I know for a fact that my breeder has never even sent a puppy home with fleas, muchless coccidia or anything else.

As far as breeders doing their best to prevent it... neither of us know the difficulty in doing this since we have never whleped a litter. It would appear that a lot of breeders are preventing it bc we'd read a lot more about it on here if it were that common.

You call me "short-sighted", I call myself discerning. I feel that an ounce of prevention in the beginning is would a pound of hearthache down the road. You are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to mine. I said that I would NEVER buy from someone that thought it was necessary to include ALBON bc it would tell me that coccidia is frequent and normal... it obvioulsy happens a lot for them to take the time to include it. I didnt criticize the breeders, I just said I would NEVER get a dog from them!

[red98vett]

Originally Posted by suzysmitt

I feel so sad for your and your pup. I will definetly pray for you. I'm having all kinds of problems with my new pup too, and it does make you very angry with the people.

I totally agree....Suzy....I'm so sorry to hear this about your puppy - and Figment - GOOD luck with your baby - I know it was the scariest thing I ever went thru with Chanel ...when they're so young you just worry about every little thing and to deal with this on top of it really can be scary -

Once I knew Chanel had the right treatment I felt so much better - but only after I knew she got a clean bill of health from the vet - Hang in there - Hugs to you and to ANY puppy's that gets this - it's a nasty organism that really makes them feel miserable while it's active...

[Carters Mom]

My breeder usually keeps her pups for three months at the least but usually 4 or 5 months before they go to their forever home. She does treat her pups with albon before they leave her and they are tested BEFORE they go to their forever home to be certain they are clear. She knows there is a possibility for coccidia but SHE takes the preventative measures. She does not expect her new moms to bear the burden. She has foresight . . . REAL foresight. THAT is a reasonsible breeder -- doing her job herself -- not subjecting a pup in transition to have another adjustment that is unneccesary. The pups do not leave sick.

[red98vett]

Originally Posted by Carters Mom

My breeder usually keeps her pups for three months at the least but usually 4 or 5 months before they go to their forever home. She does treat her pups with albon before they leave her and they are tested BEFORE they go to their forever home to be certain they are clear. She knows there is a possibility for coccidia but SHE takes the preventative measures. She does not expect her new moms to bear the burden. She has foresight . . . REAL foresight. THAT is a reasonsible breeder -- doing her job herself -- not subjecting a pup in transition to have another adjustment that is unneccesary. The pups do not leave sick.

Thank you for posting this - yes those ARE the signs of a responsible and caring breeder who takes the time and strives to have healthy puppies....I can underrstand an outbreak.... but not an ongoing problem....as with my Chanels Breeder - she even REVISED her contract to cover her butt for coccidia - so she obviously is STILL selling sick puppies.

I wouldn't wish what Chanel went through on anyone - she was sooo little and so very sick - it was truly a heartwrenching experience to go thru - and took ALL the excitment out of a new baby... because, you may LOSE that baby due to something beyond our control...

[SoCalyorkiLvr]

Originally Posted by LvMyYorki

Kim- These are puppy brokers we're talking about, you've said/ posted on several occassions that you got Buddah from a broker.

No, not brokers. One broker. It is true that I got Buddha from a woman who sells the puppies for her grandmother who is deaf and has been breeding yorkies for over thirty years. She also sells for other breeders and she has a multi million dollar house where she keeps the puppies in pampered conditions in playpens with space heaters and the place was spic and span! I do not share the prejudice that some members have toward brokers. I know several brokers and they are reputable. Even some of the best breeders "sell for friends" or will put other breeders' litters on their website. There are well respected breeders on this board who do that. By defintition, they would be "brokers". This in itself is not a sign of sonething bad, although I know there are "bad brokers" just as there are "bad breeders". Buddha actually came from one of her grandmother's litters. Hefner came from a different breeder.

Chai came from a highly respected and reputable breeder in Texas who has been breeding for more than 20 years. Definitely NOT a broker.

If this is appearing in the "first few days or weeks" of the pup going to its new home, then the puppy had it when they came to their new home.

This is complicated I know and hard to grasp, and is the reason this thread has gotten so confusing, but here goes: While the pup may have ingested the bacteria, so he is technically "infected" ("the puppy had it" as you say), in the typical situation, the catalyst that cause the bacteria to "flare up" and cause full blown coccidia usually occurs with the stress of moving the puppy to his new home. So, no matter how much prevention the breeder takes by treating the puppies while she has them, this does not fully protect the puppy from developing the disease after it goes to it's new home.

As far as breeders doing their best to prevent it... neither of us know the difficulty in doing this since we have never whleped a litter. !

The fact that you and I have never whelped a litter does not mean I cannot research and learn what it takes to prevent coccidia. The research I have done leads me to believe that there is NOTHING a breeder can do to prevent it 100%. They may have been "lucky" to have never had an incident but even the most sterile conditions will not prevent it completely. The vets I have talked to about it have told me that the "majority" of puppies have the bacteria. Whether it develops in coccidia or not is really a matter of luck.

Albon is not harmful (unless they are allergic to it like Buddha) if given in the proper dosage and a breeder who has the foresight to take this preventative measure for her puppies when they suffer the stress of going to a new home is the sign of a caring, reputable person who understands what coccidia is all about, either from personal experience, or advice of her vet.

[Carters Mom]

The Albon treatment is usually given for a period of 10 days. If the breeder treats the pup with Albon for 10 days before it leaves to go to the forever owner, the occurence of coccidia has been prevented. It takes 13 days to show up. Seems to me that if the pup has been treated for 10 consecutive days to rid the body of the parasite, then there would be nothing to develop into full blown coccidia.

I've got a college degree and graduated with honors. I know I don't have a vet degree or MD behind my name but I think I understand things pretty well. I've spoken to my vet about this disease and feel that I was able to get good information from her and it coincided with what I've read as well.

[SoCalyorkiLvr]

Originally Posted by Carters Mom

My breeder usually keeps her pups for three months at the least but usually 4 or 5 months before they go to their forever home. She does treat her pups with albon before they leave her and they are tested BEFORE they go to their forever home to be certain they are clear. She knows there is a possibility for coccidia but SHE takes the preventative measures. She does not expect her new moms to bear the burden. She has foresight . . . REAL foresight. THAT is a reasonsible breeder -- doing her job herself -- not subjecting a pup in transition to have another adjustment that is unneccesary. The pups do not leave sick.

Thank you for posting his Lisa!

I am glad that other breeders take this preventative measure by giving albon to the puppies. Both of my breeders did this as well. I got Buddha at 11 weeks, Hefner at the same time but he was 12 weeks old. They were both vet checked and healthy and this breeder/broker spent hours teaching me how to care for my new babies because she knew I was a new yorkie owner and she cares about the babies. She lives locally and has been a tremendous resource for me to this day. I am on the phone with her whenever i have a question and I have been back to her house several times. I find that she a lot more about the health needs of this breed than the average vet.

Chai's breeder would not let her go until she reached two pounds, had her rabies in Texas, and was vet checked and tested. She was 15 weeks when I got her!

None of my puppies were "sick" when they left the breeder.

The problem is, as I explained above, treating the puppy while in the breeder's care is good but the bacteria is usually activated in a lot of cases by the stress of the puppy going to it's new home. Both of my breeders gave albon while in their care. Buddha developed it within the first week that he was with us because he was aklergic to the albon so no preventative was available. Obviously, he had the bacteria.

[LvMyYorki]

Coccidia is not a bacteria... it is a parasite. I don't agree that my breeder has just "been lucky" in all of her years of breeding. There's obviously more to it than luck. You and I have not ever bred, therefore neither of us can say what causes or prevents coccidia. All the googling and research on the net can not replace life experience. You will go on what your brokers and breeders have told you and your personal experience has been with your dogs and I will go on what my YTCA show breeder has told me and what my personal experience has been with adopting mine. Again Kim, we should just agree to disagee on this.

JMO... a responsible breeder would not sell their puppies on nextdaypets.com

[SoCalyorkiLvr]

As I posted earlier...


Coccidia are single celled organisms that infect the intestine. They are microscopic parasites detectable on routine fecal tests in the same way that worms are but coccidia are not worms and they are not visible to the naked eye. Coccidia infection causes a watery diarrhea which is sometimes bloody and can even be a life-threatening problem to an especially young or small pet.


I used the word "Bacteria" incorrectly in my explanations because in the mind of the lay person it is more like a "bacteria" since it is not visible by the naked eye like a worm or other parasite.

[txshopper73]

Um, well, my pups had it. I am not a huge breeder, puppy mill, kennel, any of those things. I have one momma and one daddy yorkie and this was our first litter. I believe that my pups got it from momma eating cat poop in our back yard. I found good homes for my 2 cats, treated momma and pups and all is back to normal. So, I can't say that this germ/parasite/bacteria, whatever it is ony comes from kennels and places like that. It can come from just your average Joe too.

[diva pup]

I am sorry to disagree again but if the puppy was not sick why is it being treated? I do not take antibiotics in the event I MIGHT get sick.
I spoke to my breeder this am and asked her about coccidia. She does not treat her puppies for coccidia because she doesnt have it. Tho I do think it is true that a reputable breeder CAN get coccidia(if they visit another kennel or dog show where they may have it) it is passed from dog to dog, most responsible breeders will take care of the problem BEFORE it becomes a problem for a new owner.
My breeder actually laughed out loud when I said the breeders/brokers send home Albon with a puppy.

[red98vett]

Originally Posted by txshopper73

Um, well, my pups had it. I am not a huge breeder, puppy mill, kennel, any of those things. I have one momma and one daddy yorkie and this was our first litter. I believe that my pups got it from momma eating cat poop in our back yard. I found good homes for my 2 cats, treated momma and pups and all is back to normal. So, I can't say that this germ/parasite/bacteria, whatever it is ony comes from kennels and places like that. It can come from just your average Joe too.

You did good - it is a single cell parasite - but you treated yours - that's what some breeders don't bother with - usually if one puppy has it - the whole litter will...

It DOES happen - it doesn't make anyone a bad breeder... but to have it be a constant ongoing problem (like Chanels breeder) is not right ...she just sells puppies without even WARNING the people who buy them...I had a problem with that - she knew it but totally denied it...then a year down the road...she told me she just had too much going on in her life and said she DID know it.

My baby could have DIED - all the breeder had to do was tell me there was a problem with coccidia in her kennel the first day Chanel showed symptoms...but she didn't and we ended up in the ER on a Sunday morning at 2 am

[txshopper73]

Originally Posted by red98vett

You did good - it is a single cell parasite - but you treated yours - that's what some breeders don't bother with - usually if one puppy has it - the whole litter will...

It DOES happen - it doesn't make anyone a bad breeder... but to have it be a constant ongoing problem (like Chanels breeder) is not right ...she just sells puppies without even WARNING the people who buy them...I had a problem with that - she knew it but totally denied it...then a year down the road...she told me she just had too much going on in her life and said she DID know it.

My baby could have DIED - all the breeder had to do was tell me there was a problem with coccidia in her kennel the first day Chanel showed symptoms...but she didn't and we ended up in the ER on a Sunday morning at 2 am

THAT IS HORRIBLE!!!!! If you have a problem, FIX IT!!! Why let your name go down the drain? Obviously, this breeder doesn't care about her name or her pups. That is SAD!!!

[diva pup]

It is HORRIBLE when "breeders" do not take care of the problem. You did the RESPONSIBLE thing by taking care of the problem.