very good point
 

That is very good. You see i dont care if they call them yorkies just the fact that they come frome yorkies is why they are called that. They could give them there own name colors and standard to which us breeders could compete with each others chocolates in our own class and we would be happy . Im sure i would. I dont want to compete against the blk and gold i just want my babie to be judged fairly and responsibly as to know which bloodlines i should carry own . I dont know that i will breed another litter i had one that was my goal i showed one that was another. people said i couldnt and i did. Sorry im not one to just lay down. this girl has a point why cant breeders and showers get along why all the drama one little dog got a little red ribbon and you act like i committed a crime. her hair her body structure height head tail and all were great even quality of hair was right but color was a fault i knew going in i wasnt gonna win even being the only bitch in the ring . I just wanted the judge to comment on her tell me what she thought same as most who want to show there dogs i dont care if they call them a yorkie i didnt set the standards people years ago did i just want to show my dog in peace thank you

Black & gold will soon be a dq as well so it's not more important (as your words). The only colors that will be allowed to be shown is STEEL blue and tan.

Here is the DQ

Any color or combination of colors other than blue and tan as described above (meaning described in the standard). Any white markings other than a small white spot on the forechest that does not exceed 1" at its longest dimension.

Effective October 1

Im trying to keep up with you all, but wow iam getting so :confused: i like yt for all the education that comes with it, so many threads about colors and still im in the dark:( I only have tradional colors but i love looking at all the colors, they are all so beautiful in there own way:) Im going to keep trying to folllow you all here so Im able to understand more & more;)

Punkins pic.
 

Here is my Chocolate, she is a under the covers kind of dog, or a cover hog....:p I had more pics but I couldn't get them to load.

very good point
 

That is very good. You see i dont care if they call them yorkies just the fact that they come frome yorkies is why they are called that. They could give them there own name colors and standard to which us breeders could compete with each others chocolates in our own class and we would be happy . Im sure i would. I dont want to compete against the blk and gold i just want my babie to be judged fairly and responsibly as to know which bloodlines i should carry own . I dont know that i will breed another litter i had one that was my goal i showed one that was another. people said i couldnt and i did. Sorry im not one to just lay down. this girl has a point why cant breeders and showers get along why all the drama one little dog got a little red ribbon and you act like i committed a crime. her hair her body structure height head tail and all were great even quality of hair was right but color was a fault i knew going in i wasnt gonna win even being the only bitch in the ring . I just wanted the judge to comment on her tell me what she thought same as most who want to show there dogs i dont care if they call them a yorkie i didnt set the standards people years ago did i just want to show my dog in peace thank you

Congrats to all dogs in the show

... and sadly, they'll also be stopping the black coated dogs who were once showing and winning champion status.

Thanks you are a plethera of knowledge!:thumbup:

your baby is beutiful
 

thank you for posting they are georgious i love all animals i guess thats why my heart went out to this breed when i found out the history behind them. Love them with all your heart dont worry bout what anyone says negative here alot of them dont know what they are talking about and the ones that think they do well let them think what they want they are beutiful and precious dogs and we should all treasure each and every one thank you for your pics.

Great you wanted a judge to go over your dog. However, as exhibitors it is our RESPONSIBILITY to take the judges, the best representation of the breed.

this is email from ukc
 

so everyone can agree the choc. /liver and tan is a flaw doesnt mean the whole dog is bad blk and tans have flaws or dsq too.

COLOR
Puppies are born black and tan and are normally darker in body color, showing an intermingling of black hair in the tan until they are mature. The mature coat color occurs gradually; therefore, puppies should not be faulted for lack of color change until they are two years old. The colors in adult dogs are:
BLUE - a dark steel blue.
TAN - All tan hairs are darker at the roots than in the middle, shading to a still lighter tan at the tips.
On the body, the dark steel blue extends over the body, from the back of the head to the root of the tail. The headfall is a rich golden tan, deeper in color at the sides of the head, at the ear roots and on the muzzle, with the ears being a deep rich tan. The tan color should not extend down the back of the neck.
The hair on the chest and legs is, a bright, rich tan, not extending above the elbow on the forelegs or above the stifle on the hind legs.
Faults: In adult dogs, fawn or bronze hairs mingling with silver-blue color. Sooty or black hair intermingled with the tan.
Disqualifications: Any change in coat color by artificial means. Albinism.

I did a review of a few Yorkshire Terrier breed standards, and cannot find where the Live and Tan are accepted anywhere in the world. In fact, in the FCI, any dogs with physical abnormalities (which would include color) are to be disqualified.

You are welcome to send us a proposal, accompanied by documentation, and we would review it.



Vicki Rand, Editor
UKC Publications
United Kennel Club, Inc.
Your Total Dog Registry Since 1898
www.ukcdogs.com


shannette barbee <wildnet@yahoo.com>
09/24/2007 09:23 AM
To vrand@UKCdogs.com
cc
Subject liver and tan Yorkies







Hi Mrs Rand
My name is Shannette Barbee. Saterday i took two of my AKC Liver and Tan Yorkies to your show in Hickory. I got the temp # to show them and was told there is no disqualification for the liver color.
But when the judge went to check the standard the only color listed was the black or blue steel color. So she really didnt know what to do i dont think.
As years have gone by since liver and tan and choc yorkies as well as tri colors have been being registered with AKC and UKC which i prefer UKC myself. I was wondering why there isnt a revision for the other colors as far as standards for the judges to compare and judge properly.
The Standard does day that disqualification is when a color has been artificially altered or albinism. Which in my dogs case niether was done. but at the same time haveing never seen one or haveing standard in writing for them the judge was confused as to what to do. Im simply writing to ask you what do i need to do to help with this problem. How do we get this revised so that these beutiful dogs that are being registered can now be judged so that us Refurbishers of these lines can get judged on which lines we should continue with to get the optimal dogs. IF we cant get them judged properly we have no way of knowing which lines are better to continue our breeding . We simply want recognition in the standards so that we can get judge feedback. I hope you can help me with this. This was my first show and i was treated with great respect and the judges were very helpfull but at same time in awww and confused as to how to judge them. Please help im very open to suggestions have been working for over 10 years on this particular color to stop mutulation and the culling out of this color. Breeders were discarding these pups at birth because they werent recognized. WE now have recognition without standard. Help please
thank you
shannette barbee

Mam i took the best dog i had to represent the quality of dog i like thats all i did

I am glad that you are enjoying your chocolate colored Yorkie. I am sure that you had fun showing!! She is a cutie. And congratulations is in order!! :thumbup:

I don't have "a dog in this fight" :eek: ;) but I believe that we should be happy for you........ regardless of our personal opinions ( and I think many of us are glad you did so well!!)
There are many Yorkie breeders who are so dedicated to the breed which is wonderful......... that dedication is what has made the Yorkie such an awesome little dog. I, personally will stick with Yorkies as close to the standard as possible (including color)..... even though my babies are pet quality. They are a little over weight (that is changing with diet.... MY FAULT) . Please understand their passion..... we really need to give them a little bit of understanding for their "steadfast dedication" and concern for the breed. :) ....................... and maybe excuse some for not being able to express it so well.

I understand your personal preferance for this color. However, because of the coat color, which is the yorkies shinning glory, it isn't acceptable for show.

As was stated by a previous poster....being awarded the red ribbon was a kind way of the judge telling you just that.

Why is allowing variances of the breed ruining it? It's not like Yorkies were mixed with another breed to get the color. Chocolates & Biewers/Partis come from Yorkies. All Yorkies are beautiful to me know matter what color. Look at all the color variations of labs, poodles, etc. If we shunned the chocolate lab like some do with chocolate Yorkies, there wouldn't be all the beautiful dogs we have today. The only way the breed will be "ruined" is if breeders stop breeding them.

lets start a chocolate terrier group or foundation
 

Anyone wanting to join in is welcome akc ukc or ckc keep all records and pedigree's get as much info on your dogs background as possible we will band together and start our own club since there is none out there.

Any one interested please email me with any information or questions we will figure out rules and regulations and i guess put on our own dog shows and judge our own dogs.
Seems nobody else is interested in this dog. So im appealing to the chocolate and liver and tan lovers band together and we will just call them
red terriers or something this has to stop
Someone needs to give these dogs and supporters of these dogs a break. im willing to do what it takes changing names starting our own club whatever.
and appealing to anyone and everyone they deserve recognition when the dog is in great quality and condition for showing and breeders are responsible with keeping of bloodlines we are trying to do our part we just keep getting pushed back by people who are scared of change.
So if your are interested im open for suggestions and oversee ers judges who would want to judge any thing. RED Terrier Club sounds great suggestions welcome

You are a wise person congrats on your point

Who is "YOU people"? I am a pet owner and I love the yorkshire terrier breed, that is all. I do not breed or show.
I was not rude at all nor was I trying to put her dog down, I was simply expressing my opinion on a chocolate (any chocolate) in the show ring and/or in a breeding program.

well there are plenty of thoughts and myths about differences in color genes in the yorkie and here is a great place to hear all the debates but be prepared to have thick skin cause some can be bruital about caring about any dog other than the ones they want in the shows. thank you for being interested in them. We need more people wanting to know more.

letter received by vice president of the UKC
 

Dear Kimberly,

I was made aware of this today.

Yes, apparently one did compete. We do not have a show report in yet, so I can't say what the award was that the dog was given, if any.

There are no DQ's in Yorkies (in UKC or AKC) so a dog of that color couldn't be disqualified for being an off color. In order to be disqualified, there has to be a specific disqualification listed.

When I received your email I was on the phone with one of the judges from the weekend. She called me about the dog, and she said she had withheld awards, which would be the correct action, I feel, as the standard is quite specific regarding the color. Because no mention is made of the off color as a DQ, the judge should treat it as a fault and penalize the exhibit accordingly. In a standard so heavily weighted towards color, in my opinion withholding would be the best course of action.

If I can be of any more assistance, please let me know.

Mark E. Threlfall
Executive Vice President
United Kennel Club, Inc.®
Your Total Dog Registry since 1898
www.ukcdogs.com
Our Dogs do Stuff

well atleast you proved she was in the show thank you wasnt going for much just wanted a judge to see her and other people to make there own decisions but thank you for your conformation of her attending the show

Well, I guess that answers the question as to what their 'official stance' is on the situation.

K,

We need more people like you, working to perserve the breed and standard.

Evidently the UKC is not aware of the DQ, but I'm sure that they won't be far behind, since they work off the YTCA/AKC standard

coat dsq isnt big deal for me
 

I can still put the choc/liver in other events im gonna get attention for this breed one way or the other. So bashing me or this breed is just a waste of time
im sure in time there will be many more competing if not in ring in other parts of shows i dont need a judge to tell me my dog is healthy and pretty i know they are they are also smart and energetic and can do more than walk around a ring and look pretty


no offense intended just passionate and persistant thnks

Maybe I missed it. Did some say that the dog was never shown?:confused:

Lol..I understand your point (I think), but if you are really don't need a judge to tell you anything, why would you put her in other events? Just wondering...it doesn't make much sense to me....

i dont think so but there was alot of disbelief otherwise ukc wouldnt have been questioned about whether she was showed or not

Ok I'm gonna chime in one more time....No one is saying she didn't go to the show we are all pretty sure the dog was shown. If you know the standard and you know the dog is incorrect why take it in the ring is the point of all this. I pet out dogs with faults. No dog is going to be perfect but if you take in a dog with an "OBIVIOUS" fault then you don't care about the representation of the breed. All yorkies are pretty! Some are pets and some are show dogs. Show breeders are only asking and trying to educate on is that you show the best representation of the breed and go by what the standard is saying that means "no chocolate" because it's not the steel blue it's calling for in the standard. Almost every show breeder has pet quality puppies in a litter and if something is way off you spay and place that yorkie into a loving and caring home as such as any of you. I know show breeders that take dogs in the ring all the time that shouldn't be in the ring and that's why you have so many that are on YT that get frustrated with taking in those that don't fit the standard in the ring and are so passionate about it. All we are asking is educate yourself and if you know it's not up to standard why do it? Again, just like children you want them to follow the rules but how can you expect them too when the adults can't!
JMHO
Donna Bird
Brooklynn's Yorkshire Terriers

for recognition
 

simply for recognition and education and competition to put this breed out there for the public to decide if they want or like them or not and basically to have fun with them just as others that compete do. Most people have never even seen one