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-   General Yorkshire Terrier Discussion (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/general-yorkshire-terrier-discussion/)
-   -   what do you think of a chocolate yorkie? (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/general-yorkshire-terrier-discussion/93128-what-do-you-think-chocolate-yorkie.html)

Lorraine 09-02-2007 06:25 PM
[QUOTE=Mardelin;1348216]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorraine (Post 1348198)


Lorraine,

I've yet to see a Parti in person, I'm just probably not looking in the right places. I asked Lee if she had ever seen one in her 40+ years of breeding, her answer was no. She said she has seen blue, red, chocolate maybe once or twice and has seen other things happen, but has yet to seen a parti.
So between the long time breeders we both know, we seem to have come up empty on particolour. LOL Are you surprised? I am not.

Mardelin 09-02-2007 06:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cj125 (Post 1348222)
Oh Mary - I didn't know! Wow - how cool is that! I'm soo excited for you! There's going to be so many of you there... wish I could go just to see you all, and of course all the beautiful dogs!!! :love:

Pm me with details Lady! :D
Will let you know. From what I understand he took Junior Sweeps in Houston.

JeanieK 09-02-2007 06:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by love_me_cody (Post 1348208)
I know this don't have anything to do what you all are saying but do you believe, if the partis became it's own breed, that if they produce traditionals that they will also become that breed or back to a yorkie... because what if people start to claim that yorkies are carriers (if partis become their own breed)?..
Now that would be ironic wouldn't it. but if could never happen, because, unlike dominant genes, recessive genes always breed true. you could not get a traditional colored yorkie out of two parti colored parents. if you want more explanation on the genetics, PM me and I'll explain it to you.

Lorraine 09-02-2007 06:27 PM
[QUOTE=JeanieK;1348227]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorraine (Post 1348198)

No I am not getting it because I have no idea what you are wanting me to get. I know that my partis came from the Nikko line. the first registered parti colored yorkie, Nikko's Mickey Spillane had a Champion sire from the Nikko line. Are you familiar with that line?

I have no idea where all the other parti colored yorkies came from, and I am sure that there are some that are not pure yorkies, but I do know where mine came from, and just because you don't personally know any show breeders that will admit to having produced an off colored pup does not mean that it has never happened.

As was stated before, those are secrets that are kept between show breeders. If I were your friend and I was aware of your biases, I would not tell you my secrets either.

And I know of no other show breeders that have produced off colored off spring, but I do know that one did come from the Durrer line.
I know way more about the Nikko line than you would ever dream I know and that is all I am ever going to say. LOL

Mardelin 09-02-2007 06:30 PM
[QUOTE=Lorraine;1348243]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mardelin (Post 1348216)

So between the long time breeders we both know, we seem to have come up empty on particolour. LOL Are you surprised? I am not.
No, I'm not surprised.

But, maybe they do need to be a breed unto themselves....then what, they would not be considered as rare anymore....could get to #2 and have all the BYBers popping out of the woodwork and have the same problems the Yorkshire Terrier has today and maybe someone breeding them to a rare color of something else.

love_me_cody 09-02-2007 06:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeanieK (Post 1348231)
No!! partis cannot be registered as Biewers because they would not have Biewer parents. In order to be registered as a Biewer the dog has to have come from two registered Biewers.
Okay, Okay, Okay... I'm confused (sorry)... Some say biewers and partis are the same but from different countries. So there's NO WAY a parti can be later down identify as a biewer? If a parti can become its own breed wont it be kind of confusing and a easier was to make mistakes because biewers and partis can get confused (or breeders can do it on purpose to make money or what not)?... Wouldn't it be easier to make them their own breed in the biewer, but say something a long the lines of 'American Bred Biewer' or something (like standard poodle, toy poodle, etc....)


:eek: I feel like I'm getting yelled at... :( I'm just sucking in new info and don't mean to offend anyone with my ignorance of the breeds....

JeanieK 09-02-2007 06:35 PM
[QUOTE=Lorraine;1348248]
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeanieK (Post 1348227)

I know way more about the Nikko line than you would ever dream I know and that is all I am ever going to say. LOL
Well then you should know that that line has produced parti colored offspring. As for whatever else you think you know about them, maybe you should take the advice that was given here earlier and not make statements like that about another show breeder on a public forum.

As for everyone dying to get one of your champion dogs. I'm not. I'm happy with the ones I have. Anyone can buy a champion, it takes work to produce one.

Pinehaven 09-02-2007 06:36 PM
3 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by diggy4 (Post 1348241)
Hey COOL I didnt even notice in the avatar all his beautiful white! I think I may have one of those too! And he is from 2 standard registered yorkies...how about yours? Were the parents carriers or parti?
Hi,

My little guy is by a parti (parti will pass on 1 parti gene to all offspring) and his mom is traditional colored. Who knows, your pup may carry the gene too, he has a lot of white on him!.

Here are a few photos of my little carrier.

Lorraine 09-02-2007 06:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeanieK (Post 1348187)
The YTCA can change their minds. Never say never. If someone with enough cash behind them got to pushing it, you'd be surprised what could happen.

And it does not have to be done through the YTCA. I believe if they are bred long enough to establish a fairly predictable standard, that they will eventually be accepted as a breed of their own.

Just because they all say NO today does not mean that it can't happen in the future.
Its the AKC that has to approve a new breed not YTCA. YTCA only deals with Yorkshires and as I understand AKC cannot change the breed standard without the parent club.

JeanieK 09-02-2007 06:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by love_me_cody (Post 1348267)
Okay, Okay, Okay... I'm confused (sorry)... Some say biewers and partis are the same but from different countries. So there's NO WAY a parti can be later down identify as a biewer? If a parti can become its own breed wont it be kind of confusing and a easier was to make mistakes because biewers and partis can get confused (or breeders can do it on purpose to make money or what not)?... Wouldn't it be easier to make them their own breed in the biewer, but say something a long the lines of 'American Bred Biewer' or something (like standard poodle, toy poodle, etc....)


:eek: I feel like I'm getting yelled at... :( I'm just sucking in new info and don't mean to offend anyone with my ignorance of the breeds....
No you aren't getting yelled at. But before you can register a dog, it has to have two registered parents of the same breed. So if you mated a parti and a Biewer they could not be registered anywhere. Yes a breeder can lie about who the parents are, and I'm sure that it happens more than we care to think about.

contrary to what some show breeders think, not all of us hobby breeders are back yard breeders just in it for the buck. some of us have a purpose in mind. A purpose other than to get rich breeding yorkies.

Mardelin 09-02-2007 06:42 PM
[QUOTE=JeanieK;1348269]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorraine (Post 1348248)


As for everyone dying to get one of your champion dogs. I'm not. I'm happy with the ones I have. Anyone can buy a champion, it takes work to produce one.
Lorraine did not say someone was dying to get one of her champion lines. What she said was why were so many bybers dying to get ahold of Champion lines for bigger price selling prices. And for your information....Lorraine has produced plenty of her own champions. And no not everyone can buy a champion, you still have to show it to their Championship.

love_me_cody 09-02-2007 06:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinehaven (Post 1348270)
Hi,

My little guy is by a parti (parti will pass on 1 parti gene to all offspring) and his mom is traditional colored. Who knows, your pup may carry the gene too, he has a lot of white on him!.

Here are a few photos of my little carrier.
Both of your dogs are gorgeous. I never seen a parti with little white. Do you believe he will develop more white when he gets older or a little more in the areas he have it now?

JeanieK 09-02-2007 06:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorraine (Post 1348275)
Its the AKC that has to approve a new breed not YTCA. YTCA only deals with Yorkshires and as I understand AKC cannot change the breed standard without the parent club.
Yes I understand that. But things change. And since the YTCA doesn't want to recognize the parti coloreds as yhorkies, perhaps they can become their own breed. I have no idea how it all works, but I do know that anything is possible if enough people try hard enough and get the right people behind them. It's all politics.

But in oreder to accomplish anything there have to be people who breed these parti coloreds for a purpose, a purpose other than to make money.

Why shouldn't we be given a chance. they are beautiful dogs, and there is nothing wrong with them, and has Pinehaven stated we just need to educated people.

Lorraine 09-02-2007 06:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinehaven (Post 1347998)
Were you aware that the most prolific line of Parti yorkies, comes from a show breeder's line? A breeder who's been breeding for over 30 years? And you are right, AKC was in there DNA testing 42 litters from these bloodlines.
Some of the full parti yorkies have 4 or 5 generations of dogs who all carry this show breeders prefix.

Again, I'm just trying to open up peoples minds! :-)
There are show breeders and then there are show breeders.
Dna testing only tells you who the sire and dam aren't if there is a wrong dog listed as either. IF something happened further back it won't tell you anything about that.

Mardelin 09-02-2007 06:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorraine (Post 1348275)
Its the AKC that has to approve a new breed not YTCA. YTCA only deals with Yorkshires and as I understand AKC cannot change the breed standard without the parent club.
You are absolutely correct Lorraine. The breed standard was opened up and the directive of the YTCA. However, they worked collectively with AKC on the wording. YTCA members had to approve the final draft by a 2/3 vote. However, AKC working with YTCA knew about the wording and DQ addition. All that was necessary was for AKC to reconvine and give it's blessing and on to the judges training.

Pinehaven 09-02-2007 06:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by love_me_cody (Post 1348289)
Both of your dogs are gorgeous. I never seen a parti with little white. Do you believe he will develop more white when he gets older or a little more in the areas he have it now?
Thank you, He's a parti carrier, not a full parti. He will not get any more white on him. His father is a full parti and his mother is a traditional blue and tan.

diggy4 09-02-2007 06:50 PM
3 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinehaven (Post 1348270)
Hi,

My little guy is by a parti (parti will pass on 1 parti gene to all offspring) and his mom is traditional colored. Who knows, your pup may carry the gene too, he has a lot of white on him!.

Here are a few photos of my little carrier.

He is gorgeous! Loving that belly shot!! Diggy was really white at birth, then at 4-5 months it lessened now it is coming out again....maybe he lost puppy coat and his permanent colors are coming out?? Not sure, but like I said hard to see with a picture, but I will try and find more showing the white with Bella my female next to him as a comparision as some thougth it was just the camera making him look that way...well you can see by comparison to Bella it's white not tan. His little white hair around his mouth are my favorites!

love_me_cody 09-02-2007 06:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeanieK (Post 1348281)
No you aren't getting yelled at. But before you can register a dog, it has to have two registered parents of the same breed. So if you mated a parti and a Biewer they could not be registered anywhere. Yes a breeder can lie about who the parents are, and I'm sure that it happens more than we care to think about.

contrary to what some show breeders think, not all of us hobby breeders are back yard breeders just in it for the buck. some of us have a purpose in mind. A purpose other than to get rich breeding yorkies.
Thanks for clearing that up for me. It does sound like the parti breeders (on here) love what they are doing and is not in it for the money.

JeanieK 09-02-2007 06:51 PM
[QUOTE=Mardelin;1348284]
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeanieK (Post 1348269)

Lorraine did not say someone was dying to get one of her champion lines. What she said was why were so many bybers dying to get ahold of Champion lines for bigger price selling prices. And for your information....Lorraine has produced plenty of her own champions. And no not everyone can buy a champion, you still have to show it to their Championship.
I believe that she said every Byb, post #140, but since I am not a Byb it didn't pertain to me.

Pinehaven 09-02-2007 06:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorraine (Post 1348297)
There are show breeders and then there are show breeders.
Dna testing only tells you who the sire and dam aren't if there is a wrong dog listed as either. IF something happened further back it won't tell you anything about that.
Yes, true for my dogs and for yours as well. When a DNA test comes out that can determine the purity of a breed, we may ALL be surprised!

JeanieK 09-02-2007 06:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by diggy4 (Post 1348305)
He is gorgeous! Loving that belly shot!! Diggy was really white at birth, then at 4-5 months it lessened now it is coming out again....maybe he lost puppy coat and his permanent colors are coming out?? Not sure, but like I said hard to see with a picture, but I will try and find more showing the white with Bella my female next to him as a comparision as some thougth it was just the camera making him look that way...well you can see by comparison to Bella it's white not tan. His little white hair around his mouth are my favorites!
My Chachi shows a lot of white on his chest too, and he is a carrier also. I can't wait to breed him to my parti girls and see what I get.

Lorraine 09-02-2007 07:01 PM
[QUOTE=JeanieK;1348309]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mardelin (Post 1348284)

I believe that she said every Byb, post #140, but since I am not a Byb it didn't pertain to me.
Of course it didn't. You obviously have no respect for show breeders so why would you be dying to get your hands on champion lines to get more money for your puppies. Obviously you don't right? After all, didn't you say Show breeders prefer to hide their problems, why would you want their lines. I am sure when you are selling puppies you never mention if there may or may not be champions in their line :D :D

Mardelin 09-02-2007 07:02 PM
[QUOTE=JeanieK;1348309]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mardelin (Post 1348284)

I believe that she said every Byb, post #140, but since I am not a Byb it didn't pertain to me.
Jeanie,

I think she was speaking of BYBers in general. Just go back and read some of the post on YT.....how they speak of having such in such champion in their pedigree 5 and 6 generations back. Watch how they post their puppies Champion lines....they do this with intention of attracting the unsuspecting buyer to sell for big dollars.

scrapindee 09-02-2007 07:03 PM
MARS veterinary is coming out with a new test that will determine the heridity of the breed. I am planning on doing the MARS test on a few of my biewers to see what the origination of the breed is. They have been able to "define" 138 breeds--and their breeding background.

Lorraine 09-02-2007 07:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by love_me_cody (Post 1348306)
Thanks for clearing that up for me. It does sound like the parti breeders (on here) love what they are doing and is not in it for the money.
Check out the prices for their pups compared to a show breeders pet price for pet puppies. Remember prices will vary a bit depending on location. If the prices are close to the same perhaps you are right, if they aren't well?

diggy4 09-02-2007 07:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeanieK (Post 1348312)
My Chachi shows a lot of white on his chest too, and he is a carrier also. I can't wait to breed him to my parti girls and see what I get.
Well I have no desire to breed as I am not educated enough and probably would pass out at the first sign of Labor....but I am doing my homework on Diggy! :p

diggy4 09-02-2007 07:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by scrapindee (Post 1348323)
MARS veterinary is coming out with a new test that will determine the heridity of the breed. I am planning on doing the MARS test on a few of my biewers to see what the origination of the breed is. They have been able to "define" 138 breeds--and their breeding background.
I seen that on the Today show and thought of this very subject!! I asked but noone really had an answer in here as I think it was too new...Id be excited to find out what breeds make up our fur butts!

Mardelin 09-02-2007 07:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorraine (Post 1348325)
Check out the prices for their pups compared to a show breeders pet price for pet puppies. Remember prices will vary a bit depending on location. If the prices are close to the same perhaps you are right, if they aren't well?
I was amazed at the prices of the Parti and Biewer. Astronomical........
Now as far as Champions....I guess they won't have any future AKC Champions in the Biewer or Parti lines until they are recognized by AKC since they can't be shown at AKC events.

love_me_cody 09-02-2007 07:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorraine (Post 1348325)
Check out the prices for their pups compared to a show breeders pet price for pet puppies. Remember prices will vary a bit depending on location. If the prices are close to the same perhaps you are right, if they aren't well?
I understand what you are saying also. It's just she sounds so strongly about the breed and most of the time it has to be because they are hiding something or they are trying to do right...

NOT that i'm saying your doing anything wrong parti breeders!;)

Lorraine 09-02-2007 07:19 PM
[QUOTE=Mardelin;1348322]
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeanieK (Post 1348309)

Jeanie,

I think she was speaking of BYBers in general. Just go back and read some of the post on YT.....how they speak of having such in such champion in their pedigree 5 and 6 generations back. Watch how they post their puppies Champion lines....they do this with intention of attracting the unsuspecting buyer to sell for big dollars.
I was speaking of byb's in general and trying to get their hands on any dog that might go back to the big name kennels just as you said Mary.
AS for my lines, well why the heck do you think that nothing goes out of here already spayed/neutered? I had a call two nights ago from someone who wanted one of my Yorkie pups because they were impressed with the champions and the look of my Yorkies. No it wasn't for pet they wanted to breed and sell puppies. Did she really think my dogs got their championships on their own or took on the look they do from just breeding dawgs? Guess not, it took a lot of years, work, money, disappointments and winning the trust of other show breeders to use their studs or sell me a dog.
I paid my dues big time and am not will to have someone else come along to breed and sell puppies with 'champion lines' that I and other show breeders worked out butts off to put on our dogs.


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