picture
 

Still looks like a cottony coat to me. At least its groomed and clean. I knew a yorkie breeder that bred his Akc yorkie to a solid black AKC mini poodle. The resulting puppy(only had one that lived out of 2) looked identical to a purebred yorkie. There wasnt a curly hair on its body and it was the correct silk blue and shaded tan. See how mixes get into the picture.
I am not saying parti yorkies are ugly, I think they are very pretty. They just are not accepted by the standard and shouldnt be reproduced for the big $$$$$. If I wanted a parti colored dog, I would buy a Jananese Chin or a Shih-Tzu.

events
 

Conformation shows are to evaluate BREEDING stock.

Lynn,

You are a woman after my own heart........

Wow what a gorgeous parti!! This thread has been interesting to read.

It has already been established and proven that the parti color originated from purebred Champion Yorkies. Rather than to go through this all over again I would direct you to read the entire thread. If you still aren't convinced, then come back and bring on your best argument.

As has been discussed extensively, there is more to a yorkshire terrier than the color of it's coat. Personality is a big factor. I do not care to own a Japanese Chin or a Shih-tzu. I prefer the personality of the yorkie.

Parti colored yorkies have a variety of coat textures just like the traditional colored yorkies do.

Just because they are not accepted today, does not mean they will not be accepted at some time in the future. I am quite sure, that those who choose to take on the challenge of establishing a breed club for the parti colored yorkies will be thuroughly knowledgable and up to the task of getting the job done. I am sure that the AKC will be very helpfull in insturcting those persons as to how to go about it and what needs to be done.

I appreciate all the concern that is being given about how to go about starting a breed club. I only wonder where you gained your knowledge and experience in this matter. Perhaps you can give us some pointers on what we need to do first. Do we start by forming the club, or by purchasing and breeding the dogs?

Yes they are.

Thank you, He isn't mine, He is the sire of my parti carrier Chachi. The first registered parti color, Mickey Spillane is his grandsire on his Dam's side.

I dont believe its been established or proven that ALL parti yorkies come from Champion lines. Nothing has been proved to me. I notice that on 99% of the pedigrees posted that produce parti colors, the champions are back in the 3rd and 4th generation. The only exception I saw was the Nikko dog, and I will research that more. That means that most of the dogs in the 1st, 2nd and 3rd generations, have been bred by back yard breeders, some that probably have more than one breed, and do not and never will show. They have no concern for the breed itself, sell everything on full registration and all for the $$$$$. And, I am not saying that all back yard breeders are nasty and puppy millish. Some have beautiful kennels and dogs and are kept very clean. The same can be siad for the show breeders, as some of them are not very clean. The big difference is that show breeders breed to the standard of the breed and try very hard to breed out the faults, not reproduce them like the back yard breeder. I still dont understand why you just dont go and buy a Biewer. Its the same dog you have now. All the hard work has already been done for you. Why just create the same "breed" over and over again? I dont think its a challenge for the parti breeders because I dont think the parti breeders will rise to the challenge of creating a new breed. Evidentally, you cant change my mind and I cant change yours. By reading your web-site, it is eveident that you do not like nor respect show breeders. I can see why show breeders wont give back yard breeders the time of day. They cant be trusted to do what is right for the betterment of the breed. By the way, did you do all the research on your web-site, or did you just re-print all the research you found into your own words? Lynn

Lynn,

That will not work for them. The Biewer's have a Standard to breed to and they would rather breed outside of a standard than to be held to one.

Sonja
www.tx2stepnyorkies.com

Sonja, my apologies to you.

[QUOTE=Mardelin;1349118]no, I don't really take it personal because I know my own practices and it is common knowledge on here that I have always said that those who claim to only breed to better the breed are lying. Sorry but that's how I feel. Showing costs money and it has to come from somewhere. Even those people are making money selling their culls as pets. I do mention my good lines a lot tho. because I am still in awe, being a new breeder, that I have been so blessed to be able to afford much better quality dogs than I ever dreamed. mary to understand that, you would have to see some of the dogs people in this area call yorkies. i didn't even know what a yorkie was supposed to look like until I came here. Once i did, I just couldn't believe the difference in a quality dog and those being sold around here. haven't made any money yet,:p but I might someday if i weren't always looking for my next good dog. :) Shucks, I have not even broke even.

Wow... that was a marathon read
jeanieK your parti yorkies are gorgeous!
All i can say from reading this is THANK GOD i just have Buddy as a much loved pet, i really couldn't handle what appears to be alot of snobbery and bitching that surrounds showing dogs.
I read on here once someone who shows her Yorkies talking about wrapping the coat and how she would NEVER let them go out onto grass as 'sharp blades of grass' can damage the coat. I felt soooo sorry for them poor babies never ever getting to run through fresh grass with the wind blowing their hair. i just hoped that this wasn't true off all yorkies who are shown.
Its amazing really if we were talking about 'humans' and mixed breeding or not producing the right colour children, we'd be strung up as racists, and the world would be a much sadder less colourful place.
:)

I never said that "All" parti yorkies came from champion lines. In fact I stated very clearly that there are most likely some dogs being sold as parti coloreds that are mixed breeds.

The fact that there are champions in the 3rd or 4th generation certainly makes sense, since the parti coloreds themselves cannot be shown, and therefor cannot become Champions.

Just because a breeder does not show does not mean that they are breeding indiscriminately. A dog does not have to have a Ch. to be a Champion quality dog.

I don't have a kennel at all, my dogs live in my house with me.

I don't buy a Biewer because I don't want one. I want to be a part of developing the American bred parti colored Yorkshire Terrier.

Why is it that you feel the Biewers are acceptable but the partis are not when you yourself admit that they are the same dog???

Since you don't even know the people who will eventually take on the challenge of creating a new breed, how can you say they will not rise to the challenge?

Where on my website does it say that I do not like or respect show breeders. I don't have much time for closed minded people, but not all show breeders fit into that category.

As for researching something and then rewriting it in my own words. Yup, that is exdactly what I did. That is what researching is. I read everything that I could find, that could be supported with proof and I reiterated it in my own words. If I copied it word for word, it would be plagerism.

I also reported what others have written that was totally false, or could not be proven. such as "there is no piebald gene in the makeup of the yorkshire terrier." That statement cannot be proven, even if it were true, which we have already established that it is false.

It is very true that there are many bybs that cannot be trusted to do what is right. It is also true that not every show breeder can be trusted to do what is right. Some of them are so focused on winning they would do anything to win. Including the dogfs hair, putting hair from their ear into the topknots to make it appear as if their ears are closer set. Scrunching them together when they stack them to make them appear more square, to name just a few.

My guess is that most of them are not like that but some are. The sad truth is people in general do not always do what is right.

That does not mean that all non show breeders breed only for the money and don't care about the breed. After all if they wantrepeat business they had better deliver a quality product. Their reputation is at steak just like the show breeders is.

You are attacking people that you don't even know, you are attacking my website and drawing conclusions about how I feel about show breeders. You are labling all non show breeders as money hungry, irresponsible Bybs.

What are you getting at?

It appears you have lost sight of what the original discussion was about and do to a lack of knowledge on the subject, all you can do is make accusations about people that you don't even know.

A good debat is factual and informative, not full of sladerous comments and accusations.

That statment is absolutely ridiculous. You don't know what our intentions are. It is also ridiculous that you accept the Biewer and will not accept the parti colored when they are the same dog. If you have nothing intelligent to add to this debate them please take your seat and let someone who knows what they are talking about have the floor.

this is a very interesting debate and i have nothing really to add because i'm not a breeder. However i would like someone who breeds biewers to join this discussion and add their opinion on parti's vs biewers. I know Jeanie that you say parti's and biewers are the same dog from different countries but i was under the impression that they were not.

LOL I have heard these yorkie purists, referred to as Color Nazis

[QUOTE=Sugar's Mom;1349300][QUOTE=Mardelin;1349118]

no, I don't really take it personal because I know my own practices and it is common knowledge on here that I have always said that those who claim to only breed to better the breed are lying. Sorry but that's how I feel. Showing costs money and it has to come from somewhere.

How do we afford to show, some groom, as I do and or have other types of jobs and save their money. You travel together in 2, 3 or 4 people. To afford the National we plan months in advance and at times have had 6 in a room to afford the stiff hotel fee. I know for myself, I couldn't support my showing by breeding. I haven't had a litter this year. So, do I breed to make money to support showing my dogs, no. Every penny that is made by placing my pups, goes back into my dogs. And with the fees I charge, I'm running in the red all the time....So, do I breed for myself for my next Champion to improve and add to my kennel, yes.

Thank you for calling me ridiculous and not stating the standard that you follow, just that your intentions are unknown to me or others. I never said that I think that they are the same dog or that I accept either, I merely stated the fact that there is a standard for Biewer's and there is not one for Parti's and since your intentions are unknown you verified that. I also stated that breeders of Parti's should come up with their own standards and their own club and not sell them as "rare" colored Yorkies. I will take a seat when I please and not when commanded by you.

Sonja
www.tx2stepnyorkies.com

Now you've resorted to name calling. Not a good thing Jeanie.

But, as I said before I'm a purits....and this coming from a Latin American who grew up in East Los Angeles......

If somene claims that they are not the same, I would be very interested in know the beginnings of the Biewer. I have not researched them but from what I have read, I understand that the original Biewer came from two traditional colored yorkies. The big differnce now is the Biewers can only come from breeding two registered Biewers and not from two cariers.

If I am wrong on that, I am sure someone will correct me.

That is what I hope and believe will eventually happen with the parti coloreds. Once a standard has been set and they are registered, then the only way to get a parti would be to breed two registered partis.

At that point then all of these wrong colored yorkies would just be wrong colored yorkies and this entire discussion would be a moot point.

LOL no I wasn't the name caller, I just said what I had heard. I did not say that I agreed with it or felt the same way.


I have not personally attacked anyone through this entire conversation, because I believe it is a debate and there is no room tor name calling.

I guess calling my statements ridiculous and unintelligent is not personal. Well I took it personally!

Sonja
www.tx2stepnyorkies.com

Whose statement it was is irrelevant...something like that shouldn't be repeated....

If you tell me I'm full of **** I have no problem....but to refer to someone that has that word is beyond horrible.

I did not say that you were ridiculous, i said that you made a ridiculous statemet. I have stated what my goals and intentions are, not that I had to because this discussion is not about Me personally, nor anyone else personally. This is about whether us parti breeders should or should not breed these dogs for the purpose of developing them into a breed of their own.

If you stated, in this thread, that Parti breeders should come up with there own standards, I missed that, and I appologize for missing it. That would put us on the same side of this debate.

I read where you told me to buy a Biewer instead of developing the partis into a breed of their own because non of us would be up to the challenge of developing a new breed..

Ok don't take a seat, but please don't speak with your foot in your mouth.

To state that we would rather breed outside of the standard rather than to conform to them is a ridiculous statement. you do not know what we would rather do.

LMAO did I say that???? hmmmmm:rolleyes: And I dont even own a parti!!

Ladies,

This is a breed registry, not a color registry. A common defination of Breed goes something like this:

Breed : a group of animals or plants presumably related by descent from common ancestors and visibly similar in most characters.

Whether we like it or not these genes are in some of our yorkies, and not just the parti colored yorkies, the gene is in many unsuspecting traditional colored yorkies of, more than likely, many different bloodlines.

Just because some (many) people say or believe that there was never a piebald dog bred (or piebald carrier) in the early days of the breed, doesn't mean that's correct?

Until you can disprove that the gene wasn't already in the early cross-bred, unregistered terriers who began our breed or until you can prove that the gene was introduced in 1920 by an accidental breeding, or 1950 by a sloppy back yard breeder or in 1990 by a show breeder who was trying to improve the coat texture of their champion dogs, I'd rather look at the facts,
listen to the current scientific information and have an open mind.

Obviously AKC feels the same way, otherwise they wouldn't have allowed Parti to be registered 4 years ago. It's ashame that the majority of current YTCA, just doesn't see.

I think what has been missed here is that there is no problem in developing a new breed. What is being objected to is capitalizing on the word "rare" and selling them for astronomical prices. No, I'm not talking about you. But, unscrupulous breeders that aren't involved in the Parti yorkie goal.

Now answer me a question, since I really know very little about the Biewer and Parti.....It has been discussed on this forum, though not on this thread, that they have different color patterns. That the Biewer people really strive to keep this color pattern.

not to change the subject any more than i already have but jeanie, i had a parti-poodle once. in fact, it was my mini poo Sugar. She started out black with a patch of white on her back. as she got older, she changed to silver. in her last few years before passing at eighteen, she had black, brown, rust, silver and white all mixed in. when her first patch of white appeared as a puppy, I took her back to the breeder and was shown her "parti" dad. But she was still sold to me as a poodle.

I never wrote that anyone should buy a Biewer, I responded to someone else that wrote why you don't you get a Biewer instead of a Parti. I stated that the Biewers have a standard to follow and the Parti's don't.

This is what I wrote:
"As show breeders we take on a lot of expense and hard work to maintain the standard held for many years for the Yorkshire Terrier. Yes, we don't like breeders coming in and trying to change what is and was the original picture of the beginning of the Yorkshire Terrier Club and the standard that they set. This Standard doesn’t include the Parti-colored. If they want to start their own club and do their own work towards maintaining their own standard, then more power to them; but do not try to become just another color of a Yorkie and sale them as “rare”. Most show breeders join local clubs or even their National Club and sign agreements to follow a strict code of ethics with the objective to keep and maintain the Standard set for our breeds. We breed for show prospects and sell the others for pets. I personally have not made money from breeding and in fact work 3 jobs in order to be able to show my dogs in the show ring. I have nothing to hide about my dogs and you are welcome to PM me and I will give you my vets number. I have all my shots and everything done at the vets and my vet has seen each and every puppy that has been whelped by my dogs. None of them have been off-colored. It is easy to say things about people, but our point is that it should not be said unless it can be proven and that the person that is being accused should have the opportunity to defend themselves against what is being said. Just remember the old saying, "There but by the Grace of God goes I." "

My foot is not in my mouth, you are attributing things that I did not write to me.

Sonja
www.tx2stepnyorkies.com