Why tiny's over teapots?

[vainchick5]

Originally Posted by BlondieGirl87

I think one thing that often gets overlooked on here is the breeding. A lot of people assume if you have a tiny one its bad breeding or they will be unhealthy because they are so small and ultimately the breeder probably wasn't ethical in what they were doing and if you have a big yorkie none of the above applies to them. I don't know, I'm no expert but I'd say someone who breeds a yorkie over 7 pounds is just as unethical as someone who breeds a yorkie that is too small to be bred. I mean, my word, what about the people who breed 8 pound females with 7 pound males and come out with these 9 pound yorkies? I don't consider that good breeding. Where exactly did all of these large yorkies come from?? 7 pound and under yorkies? I kind of doubt it. I have nothing against the larger yorkies but they are not the standard and I for one firmly believe in keeping the standards of a breed. Otherwise, whose to say 20 years from now a yorkie won't look like a sheep dog?? I place no fault on the larger yorkies that are not within the standard, I place the fault with their breeders. Do they deserve to be loved and cared for and treated with as much respect as any other yorkie within the standard? Absolutely! But should they be bred and considered as fine a breeding material as one within the standard? No, I don't think so. But that goes for everything, color, shape, tempermant, etc. I think breeding should be done to better the breed and nothing more.

What I'm trying to say is, just because a yorkie is bigger doesn't mean that it was "bred" better, in fact, depending on the weight of the mother and father it could've been bred worse. I'd rather have a tiny father and a standard sized mother than risk the mothers life by breeding her with a big father so I could get a big yorkie...

For whatever reason, a lot of people take bigger to mean healthier and I'm sorry but in my opinion that just isn't true.

Excellent post

[JACKSON'S MOMMY]

Originally Posted by ARCHIE

For those of you who actually answered this post respectfully I thank you.
Perhaps I did not word the thread correctly when asking about the tinies
or perhaps however it was worded it would still have been a problem for some.
Afterall all is said and done I did learn more about the tinies. I was interested that's all. Period!
For those of you who may know my name by now I am not one for being
negative in any way. I love this site and have learned so much.
For instance: If I now see a puppy weighing in at 6.5lbs at 14 1/2 weeks would I know it was going to be bigger than standard? LOL of course. Did I know it 2 1/2 yrs ago. NO I never saw a big Yorkie so when I purchased Buddy who knew he would become 13.5lbs! Do I care? NO of course not. He's my little guy no matter what he weighs. Point is I learned the difference from
YT. That's all this thread was about at least for me. Learing about the little one's. I am not jealous, if I wanted one I would buy one no matter what the size. I did become upset when I saw so many of you bringing in negative posts but for the most part the other posts were
very informative. Thanks guys,

Carol & Buddy

Carol,
I can see what it is you wanted to know from the above post, but your original question was quite different. This thread would and could have been totally different from this perspective. I apoligize if you have been offended by anything I said but I hope you understand the perspective I had.

[CO_yorkie_momma]

Tiny yorkies and larger yorkies often come from parents that are within the standard. They dont always come from tiny parents or over standard parents. The breeder is not always to blame.

[BlondieGirl87]

Originally Posted by CO_yorkie_momma

Tiny yorkies and larger yorkies often come from parents that are within the standard. They dont always come from tiny parents or over standard parents. The breeder is not always to blame.

I understand that there are throw backs...however, Its hard for me to believe that a 18 pound yorkie came from parents within the standard or that a 13 pound yorkie came from parents within the standard. The males are supposed to be smaller than the females when breeding anyway, so if you had a 7 pound female which is the largest you could have for breeding purposes if you wish to maintain the standard, what's your male going to be 5-6 pounds? And that's a pretty big male for breeding and that's going to product a 13-18 pound yorkie

I'm not saying there aren't good breeders out there who have tiny ones on occasion or have big ones on occasion but I would say that most of the people who have large yorkies (meaning over 7 pounds) if you traced their roots you'd probably find there were bigger yorkies, meaning over the standard for yorkies, that were bred in their bloodlines.

[chachi]

Originally Posted by BlondieGirl87

I understand that there are throw backs...however, Its hard for me to believe that a 18 pound yorkie came from parents within the standard or that a 13 pound yorkie came from parents within the standard. The males are supposed to be smaller than the females when breeding anyway, so if you had a 7 pound female which is the largest you could have for breeding purposes if you wish to maintain the standard, what's your male going to be 5-6 pounds? And that's a pretty big male for breeding and that's going to product a 13-18 pound yorkie

I'm not saying there aren't good breeders out there who have tiny ones on occasion or have big ones on occasion but I would say that most of the people who have large yorkies (meaning over 7 pounds) if you traced their roots you'd probably find there were bigger yorkies, meaning over the standard for yorkies, that were bred in their bloodlines.

That is true but sometimes it is the grandparents or the great grandparents were larger. Chachis parents were 5 and 6 lbs and he is 10.

[browniesmom622]

Originally Posted by JCarlson2004

I have 2 tiny dogs. Tia is 3-4 lbs and Cali is 1 lb and 2 ounces. There is a BIG difference is what they can both do. Tia is a ROCK, she's sturdy and can do ANYTHING that her big brother Codie (who is 8 lbs) can do. Now Cali, on the other hand, is much more limited. I always have to be very careful where she is and what she's doing. A simple fall off the couch could very well KILL her (and I mean that LITERALLY).

and this is why in most cases Larger is healthier
bigger yorkies can get a cold and be fine where if a 2 pound dog gets a cold it may kill them
there little bodys cant handle things a larger yorkie can i think thats where when most people say that larger is healthier they mean this

[MCAM]

You know I hardly post at all but I have read tons of these threads. I can recall of several of members stating they wanted a tiny one and were upset that it grew over a certain size, so that in a way can make it seem they may be jealous with the tiny ones. Now I'm not saying that they are but the way they come out in there posts can lead to some people that, that's there way of thinking. Anyways nobody likes to admit that there jealous of someone or something period..........

[RascalLucy]

Quote:
Someone once said Jaxson looked like a rat because he was so small. It took everything in me not to curse them out like they weren't a Child of God! I had to realize that that was ignorance and kindly but dead seriously told them I would not be driving a rat around in my car.

Reply:
I might have laughed and said, "if she looks like a rat now, you should see her when she's wet!." I guess there is something funny about the really little dogs. I walk my 70 pound Lab and my 3 1/2 pound yorkie together. People point and laugh, I say" SSSHHH, she thinks she big". Then we laugh together. I get comments all the time. I think most people bought their dogs for the family and to love, and not to show or breed. So does most of this really matter? I never knew all this was an issue until I found Yorkie Talk.

[JACKSON'S MOMMY]

Originally Posted by RascalLucy

Quote:
Someone once said Jaxson looked like a rat because he was so small. It took everything in me not to curse them out like they weren't a Child of God! I had to realize that that was ignorance and kindly but dead seriously told them I would not be driving a rat around in my car.

Reply:
I might have laughed and said, "if she looks like a rat now, you should see her when she's wet!." I guess there is something funny about the really little dogs. I walk my 70 pound Lab and my 3 1/2 pound yorkie together. People point and laugh, I say" SSSHHH, she thinks she big". Then we laugh together. I get comments all the time. I think most people bought their dogs for the family and to love, and not to show or breed. So does most of this really matter? I never knew all this was an issue until I found Yorkie Talk.

Yeah I know its funny now but he was some smart ass kid at the Wendy's drive thru and Jaxson is my BABY!!! He was just sittin' in his car seat looking cute!Believe it or not I have a very big sense of humor! When he goes up and down the stairs like mighty mouse he looks like a furry slinky! And yes when he is wet he does but when he is dry he is gorgeous!

[ArielsMom]

Yeah, I know what MCAM is talking about here( sorry donlt know how to bring her post back) anyway, yes., I have read alot of posts about how their puppies grew way bigger than they expected and how upset they were..I just dont think you can always get a tiny, even if you have the funds, because they aren;t guaranteed to stay tiny...unless you buy an older tiny, which I think they sell fast. So, in that sense, SOME may be a little jealous. But, all in all, their health and personality should come first! But, whatever is important to people, is what they should strive for...I do think it is great to be educated about how much you have to watch the little ones etc!

[FlDebra]

[QUOTE=SweetCuteness]I'm not trying to start anything, but I think your response here is kind of harsh. She was just asking a question - if you're offended by it, don't respond, and move on to another thread. If you really want to get specific, the original Yorkshire Terrier was 12-14lbs and the standard size has grown smaller as the years have passed.QUOTE]

I don't think I was harsh at all -- I only meant if someone questioned the motivation for someone owning a large Yorkie, wouldn't some think it a negative thing?

Not sure where you got the idea that the Yorkshire Terrier used to be 12-14 pounds -- do you mean the standard or that there was once a Yorkie that large. I don't doubt the latter but it was not the standard. I did not make up the under 5 pound and over 5 pound classifications -- it is a part of Yorkshire Terrier history. It just is not true that they started out as large dogs and only became little recently in the U.S.. Read the Yorkshire Terrier History. After explaining the breed origins, it goes on to explain: QUOTE FROM YTCA.org: "Almost all of the classes were divided by weight. The classes were for Broken Haired or Rough Scotch Terriers less than 5 lbs. or 6 lbs. and under; Toy Terriers 4 lbs. and under, or 5 lbs. not exceeding 7 lbs., or 6 lbs. and over; or Blue Scotch Terriers under 7 lbs. or 7 lbs. not exceeding 9 lbs. The largest weight class in which they were reported to have been shown was for Broken Haired Scotch Terrier 9 lbs. not exceeding 12 lbs. This record should prove that although there were larger Yorkshires they were not being shown at the dog shows. The record proves that the small size was available for breeding from early days." ........AND.... "The Yorkshire standard of 1890 says"
"Weight divided into two classes, under five pounds and over five pounds, but not to exceed twelve pounds."
." http://ytca.org/history.html Now one breed that went into the MIX to make a Yorkie was larger -- the Clydesdale -- but the Clydesdale was only part of the Yorkshire makeup.

No doubt there were some biggies then as now -- but the standard is now "not to exceed 7 pounds" and that should be what is strived for in breeding. No matter how careful a breeder is, there are bound to be some that wind up over the standard, just as some will have floppy ears, soft coats, and mismarked colors....and we love them all.

But many (including me) want a dog that will remain in standard and be a good representation of the breed itself. I think because there is a standard, and some do not fall within it, there is some sort of inclination for some (only some) to want to negate the standard -- but it is there to keep the breed what it is and not let it become the same as a Silky or the same as a Skye terrier, etc.....

I would never question the motivation of someone for owning a large Yorkie. Of course we all love the ones we have -- and thank God for each one of them! Peace......

[FlDebra]

Originally Posted by browniesmom622

and this is why in most cases Larger is healthier
bigger yorkies can get a cold and be fine where if a 2 pound dog gets a cold it may kill them
there little bodys cant handle things a larger yorkie can i think thats where when most people say that larger is healthier they mean this

You know of a Yorkie that was killed by a cold? Ben just had a cold (caught from me unfortunately) and seemed to weather it just fine. He had the cutest little sneezes. He is just a little over 2 pounds. He also jumped from my arms and landed poorly one day. Thankfully he did not break anything. But it did show he was a little more durable than I had thought. I will still guard him from ever doing it again -- just as I would if my 13 pound Jack Russel was prone to do that. I just do not think they are all quite as fragile as some might think.

[browniesmom622]

Originally Posted by FlDebra

You know of a Yorkie that was killed by a cold? Ben just had a cold (caught from me unfortunately) and seemed to weather it just fine. He had the cutest little sneezes. He is just a little over 2 pounds. He also jumped from my arms and landed poorly one day. Thankfully he did not break anything. But it did show he was a little more durable than I had thought. I will still guard him from ever doing it again -- just as I would if my 13 pound Jack Russel was prone to do that. I just do not think they are all quite as fragile as some might think.

yes ...ive also heard of a few yorkies die of kennel cough
well i guess your very lucky then

[BlondieGirl87]

Originally Posted by browniesmom622

yes ...ive also heard of a few yorkies die of kennel cough
well i guess your very lucky then

I've not heard of a yorkie that died of a cold...maybe a cold with other complications like a collapsed trachea or hypoglycemia or something like that but just a cold I have heard of dogs dying of kennel couch, in fact I was talking to my vet about this the other day and he was telling me about a 12 pound "yorkie" and I put that in quote because he doesn't consider the large ones to be "true yorkies" that died of kennel cough. He was also telling me about a 14 pound yorkie that had all kinds of health problems, it couldn't exercise as much as mine can because it was so heavy it made it harder for it to be agile. It had more of a risk of breaking bones because of the pressure put on it when making jumps and landing and his exact words to me on this matter were, "its sad to see so many breeders now who disrespect what the breed is supposed to be".

I understand big yorkies can be from throwbacks as to the grandparents or great grandparents but a good breeder should do the research- I don't think anyone can tell me that a 13-18 pound yorkie is "normal" and the way nature intended it to be. In my opinion any yorkie over the breeds standard should be spayed/fixed and only ones within the standard should be bred. I'm not seeking "perfection", perfection is impossible, I'm just trying to advocate keeping each and every breed the way they were supposed to be so my childrens children can own a yorkie that looks just like mine and not like something else.

Big yorkies can be healthy and so can tiny ones, sometimes even more so. Yes, there are incidents like falls or hypoglycemic episodes that people seem to focus on but guess what? There's problems with big yorkies too! For every story you bring up about a small one I guarantee you I could find a vet to tell you a story about a big one. That's life, animals are animals and things will happen. However, with the tiny ones, most of the owners are extremely cautious and are at the vet for the tiniest little things so actually, there's probably more of a chance to catch something that is wrong then with a bigger one that you figure will "tough it out"

My two little ones are as tough or tougher than any big yorkie I've ever seen or met.

I don't discriminate against the larger yorkies, I've said it before and I'll say it again, I love them all but do I think they are healthier or better than a yorkie that is within the standard? In my opinion...absolutely not.

[BlondieGirl87]

[QUOTE=FlDebra]

Originally Posted by SweetCuteness

I'm not trying to start anything, but I think your response here is kind of harsh. She was just asking a question - if you're offended by it, don't respond, and move on to another thread. If you really want to get specific, the original Yorkshire Terrier was 12-14lbs and the standard size has grown smaller as the years have passed.QUOTE]

I don't think I was harsh at all -- I only meant if someone questioned the motivation for someone owning a large Yorkie, wouldn't some think it a negative thing?

Not sure where you got the idea that the Yorkshire Terrier used to be 12-14 pounds -- do you mean the standard or that there was once a Yorkie that large. I don't doubt the latter but it was not the standard. I did not make up the under 5 pound and over 5 pound classifications -- it is a part of Yorkshire Terrier history. It just is not true that they started out as large dogs and only became little recently in the U.S.. Read the Yorkshire Terrier History. After explaining the breed origins, it goes on to explain: QUOTE FROM YTCA.org: "Almost all of the classes were divided by weight. The classes were for Broken Haired or Rough Scotch Terriers less than 5 lbs. or 6 lbs. and under; Toy Terriers 4 lbs. and under, or 5 lbs. not exceeding 7 lbs., or 6 lbs. and over; or Blue Scotch Terriers under 7 lbs. or 7 lbs. not exceeding 9 lbs. The largest weight class in which they were reported to have been shown was for Broken Haired Scotch Terrier 9 lbs. not exceeding 12 lbs. This record should prove that although there were larger Yorkshires they were not being shown at the dog shows. The record proves that the small size was available for breeding from early days." ........AND.... "The Yorkshire standard of 1890 says"
"Weight divided into two classes, under five pounds and over five pounds, but not to exceed twelve pounds."
." http://ytca.org/history.html Now one breed that went into the MIX to make a Yorkie was larger -- the Clydesdale -- but the Clydesdale was only part of the Yorkshire makeup.

No doubt there were some biggies then as now -- but the standard is now "not to exceed 7 pounds" and that should be what is strived for in breeding. No matter how careful a breeder is, there are bound to be some that wind up over the standard, just as some will have floppy ears, soft coats, and mismarked colors....and we love them all.

But many (including me) want a dog that will remain in standard and be a good representation of the breed itself. I think because there is a standard, and some do not fall within it, there is some sort of inclination for some (only some) to want to negate the standard -- but it is there to keep the breed what it is and not let it become the same as a Silky or the same as a Skye terrier, etc.....

I would never question the motivation of someone for owning a large Yorkie. Of course we all love the ones we have -- and thank God for each one of them! Peace......