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Old 04-16-2005, 12:00 PM   #1
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Default What is too old to breed?

My Yorkie will be four years old in June. Someone told me she is getting too old to breed. How old should she be before I just give up the idea and have her spayed? There's a darling male who lives next door who the owners said we could use as stud, but he's only 10 months old, so we would need to wait on him to be older to use him.
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Old 04-16-2005, 12:39 PM   #2
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Your Female Would Not Be To Old To Breed. Just Have The Check Her Health Before Breeding. Both Of My Females Are 4 Yrs. Old And Just Had Litters, No Problems. As For The Male ,he Would Be Old Enough To Breed Now. My Male Produced His First Litter At The Age Of 7 Months. He Is 4.5 Lbs. By The Time He Was 1.5 Yrs Old He Had Sire 7 Litters.he Is A Popular Stud Dog In My Area.
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Old 04-16-2005, 01:03 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YORKIEDOGSFG
Your Female Would Not Be To Old To Breed. Just Have The Check Her Health Before Breeding. Both Of My Females Are 4 Yrs. Old And Just Had Litters, No Problems. As For The Male ,he Would Be Old Enough To Breed Now. My Male Produced His First Litter At The Age Of 7 Months. He Is 4.5 Lbs. By The Time He Was 1.5 Yrs Old He Had Sire 7 Litters.he Is A Popular Stud Dog In My Area.
was just wondering... were these litters the first for the 4 year olds?
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Old 04-16-2005, 01:45 PM   #4
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Animal Smiley 019 Any other Factors in Your Choice to Breed?

Are there any other factors you are taking into account in your decision to Breed you female? No she's not too old and no the male isn't too young, but
are you considering anything else like Pedigree/Bloodline, faults/recessive genes that you should breed out? Height and weights of both the male and your female? I am amazed at your non-chalant attitude towards Breeding, as if it's that easy? I'm not trying to insult you but there are a lot of other things to think about than just her age. Realistically there are a lot of people who have this Breed and love their Dogs, but I don't believe every dog should be bred just based on your love of them. There's a Breed Standard, there's confirmation; straight back, straight teeth, small ears, weight in proportion to height? It takes a lot of research etc. Money and experience, not to mention the time and effort!
Let me get off my soap box now. I've said enough, it's a sore issue with me since I have seen so many dogs poorly bred.
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Old 04-16-2005, 02:18 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prissy012899
was just wondering... were these litters the first for the 4 year olds?
NO. ONE HAS HAD 3 LITTERS, ALL HEALTHY. THE OTHER HAS HAD 2, SHE HAD ONE STILL BORN PUP LAST LITTER. OTHER THAN THAT THEY HAVE DONE GREAT.
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Old 04-16-2005, 03:04 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by YORKIEDOGSFG
NO. ONE HAS HAD 3 LITTERS, ALL HEALTHY. THE OTHER HAS HAD 2, SHE HAD ONE STILL BORN PUP LAST LITTER. OTHER THAN THAT THEY HAVE DONE GREAT.
oh thanks, I wasn't trying to be nosey but what I was wondering was how well a 4 year old yorkie would do with a first litter.. I would think it would be harder on her like a 30 yo woman giving birth for the first time..
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Old 04-16-2005, 03:12 PM   #7
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Will it be her first litter ?
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Old 04-16-2005, 04:03 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by artie merlino
Are there any other factors you are taking into account in your decision to Breed you female? No she's not too old and no the male isn't too young, but
are you considering anything else like Pedigree/Bloodline, faults/recessive genes that you should breed out? Height and weights of both the male and your female? I am amazed at your non-chalant attitude towards Breeding, as if it's that easy? I'm not trying to insult you but there are a lot of other things to think about than just her age. Realistically there are a lot of people who have this Breed and love their Dogs, but I don't believe every dog should be bred just based on your love of them. There's a Breed Standard, there's confirmation; straight back, straight teeth, small ears, weight in proportion to height? It takes a lot of research etc. Money and experience, not to mention the time and effort!
Let me get off my soap box now. I've said enough, it's a sore issue with me since I have seen so many dogs poorly bred.
Please don't take this wrong. I am not trying to insult you either, but your post has given me the perfect opportunity to ask a question I have been wondering about if I can think of the proper way to phrase it. I'll give it a try.

Why are some people who own yorkies, especially pet quality yorkies, not "show breeders", so concerned about the casual breeding habits of others? I read what you said about "so many dogs being poorly bred" and for some reason I automatically jump to an analogy regarding people. What if we said that about people? It would be considered rude, and possibly discriminatory, to claim that people were "poorly bred" because they were too short, they weigh too much, their teeth are not straight, or anything else about their outward appearance. Even their personalities or temperaments are not the proper subject. It would be unheard of or at least improper to say that a person should not procreate because they are shy or they are aggressive, etc.

Obviously, I understand that dogs are dogs and people are people (despite how some of us feel about our furbabies), but dogs are "property" under the law and it is your right to breed them if you want to and to whatever dog you want to. Just as I would never tell a friends daughter not to marry or have children with some guy because I didn't feel it would be appropriate for him to have children, I wouldn't think to tell someone else not to breed their dog or what dog to breed them to.

I also understand the health issues involved in the size difference between the dogs and the hereditary "defects" which should be avoided, but as even the breeding experts on this forum will verify, even a DNA test is no guarantee that you are going to avoid some of these condtions by not breeding.

I also know that there are a lot of unwanted dogs in shelters just as there are unwanted and abandoned children in the world, but I still do not think that gives others the right to tell people they should "adopt" rather than procreate and have their own.

I also understand why the "show" breeders don't like the casual breeders, but the majority of the people who own and love yorkies do not care about conformation, faults, recessive genes and the breed standard in general. They care about temperament, health and sharing a happy puppy with others who want a fun pet.

I think some breeders spend more time and money before breeding their dogs than they do before deciding to have a child. I mean scientists are just starting to consider DNA testing on people to avoid certain genetic defects but they have been doing it in animals for years. Does that mean we have a "non chalant attitude" toward having kids as your post would imply?

I just find all of this very curious and wondered what others thought.

Now, I will go duck for cover....No poison darts please!

Last edited by SoCalyorkiLvr; 04-16-2005 at 04:06 PM.
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Old 04-16-2005, 04:17 PM   #9
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Thanks Kim, I feel like someone just took up for me. I joined this forum only yesterday and I feel like I'm being chastised with every breath. Maybe I need to join a different forum. I was trying to ask some questions about breeding my Yorkie that I love dearly, so that we could have TWO. She is registered, he is registered, and they are both pets, only. We have bred some of our other breeds of dogs, but I didn't know if a dog this small was the same. We aren't "first-time breeders", if that's what you call it.
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Old 04-16-2005, 04:39 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devotedtoyou
Thanks Kim, I feel like someone just took up for me. I joined this forum only yesterday and I feel like I'm being chastised with every breath. Maybe I need to join a different forum. I was trying to ask some questions about breeding my Yorkie that I love dearly, so that we could have TWO. She is registered, he is registered, and they are both pets, only. We have bred some of our other breeds of dogs, but I didn't know if a dog this small was the same. We aren't "first-time breeders", if that's what you call it.
I'm very sorry that you feel chastised. I really don't want you to feel that way and hope that it doesn't deter you from our forum. We really are a good bunch. Sometimes people feel very strongly one way or the other about a topic and that can result in a "heated" discussion. We try to express our opinions and if we disagree, say so in a proper manner.

Breeding seems to be one of those subjects and I'm sorry if you've felt attacked. Please ask any questions you want, most people try to do their best to answer them. The thing we all have in common is our love for Yorkies, and I think it's obvious you'll fit in fine based on that
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Old 04-16-2005, 04:40 PM   #11
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Please don't go to another forum. I have "been around" so to speak and this is the very best in my opinion. Everyone here is nice...they just sometimes have different opinions and you have to try not to take it too personally. I have had to learn that and I have taken a few lumps before landing here!!

The admin here is the best too. I know you will grow to really like it if you stick it out and get to "know" everyone a little better.

I think your reason for wanting to breed your baby is a good one and I think we can all learn to respect everyone and have fun while we learn from each other!

WELCOME!!
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Old 04-16-2005, 05:03 PM   #12
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Devotedtoyou- I know its not fun when you feel someone has thrown a dart at you. I've been there. The truth is though this forum like any forum would be pretty dull and boring without the various opinions and occasional heated discussions. Just shrug it off and go on. This forum is a great place. Everyone here is so kind we just like give the opinions thats a part of it.
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Old 04-16-2005, 05:12 PM   #13
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Scanning the threads, the pet owner DOES care about conformation, faults and recessive genes..people post about ears not going up, bad knees, liver shunt, cotton coats, roach backs, coat won't grow, bad bites, is my Yorkie really a Yorkie, do I have a Silky/Yorkier mix, why is my Yorkie oversized..too many to list.
My goal as a breeder is to produce a happy, healthy, well adjusted Yorkie that is an excellent representation of the breed standard ..and we should expect no less of anyone who breeds a litter, whether they are a pet or show breeder..why do harm to the vary breed we love so much?
Who in good conscience can ask hundreds of dollars for a Yorkie and have it look or behave nothing like a Yorkie..that is why the standard is vital..it is the breeders blueprint on how to make a Yorkie..breeding to the standard is giving the pet owner what they are asking for... disregard the standard and you are breeding blind. JMO
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Old 04-16-2005, 05:43 PM   #14
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Thank you Pat.

I need to rephrase what I said. I should have said most people don't care about "perfect conformation", faults and recessive traits that relate to appearance only. My problem with the breed standard as defined in America by the AKC and the YTCA is that it says nothing at all about temperament and I feel that is the most important thing.

Of course, we want yorkies to look like yorkies, but I am opposed to the common practice of "culling" healthy puppies who have less than perfect conformation like being a different color for instance.

In addition, the ideal standard does seem to change periodically, not in print since it's been the same since the 1960s, but in the show ring. It used to be that judges wanted the shorter legs and now they are going for the longer legs. It used to be that a dog under 5 pounds wouldn't stand a chance in the show ring and now judges will consider smaller yorkies. We wouldn't even have the Biewer Yorkie if we followed the breed standard completely.

I am not advocating complete disregard for the standard, merely a more open minded approach to producing healthy, happy pets. There does seem to be an almost snobbish attitude which leads to hurt feelings and some feelings of one dog being "better in some way than another" based on outward appearance alone. This is what I don't like.

Am I wrong in my understanding that you cannot prevent "bad knees" and liver shunts by selective breeding? I know you wouldn't want to breed dogs with those condtions, but do reputable breeders when they learn of these conditions in their puppies no longer breed those parents?
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Old 04-16-2005, 05:52 PM   #15
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In addition to the above concerns: how much does your Yorkie weigh? What about the male? (I know he is not full grown)
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