What is too old to breed?

[devotedtoyou]

Gracie weighs six pounds and is perfectly healthy. The male weighs four and a half pounds. Both are black and tan.

[SoCalyorkiLvr]

I thought this post from the other day was a good one for anyone interested in breeding. I thought it would be a good "sticky" thread that stayed at the top of the breeding forum.

To Those Thinking of Breeding

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or anyone who wants to read a good artice/page:

It's called Virtual Breeding
http://www.bluegrace.com/virtualbreeding.html
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[YorkieRose]

I think the standard does touch on temperment..as I recall, it mentions..a high head carriage, confindent manner that gives an air of importance..or some such words to that effect. I, interpet that to mean a well adjusted dog, secure and outgoing. A shy, timid Yorkie does not carry themselves well, they can act like they have been abused, very submissive. They can hunch over their backs and drop their heads, drop their ears back. I have yet to see a good tempermented Yorkie not walk through a room like they own the house.
I feel it is a "package" deal...it is not that hard to breed both, good temperment and quality..a Yorkie can be gorgeous in conformation, but maladjusted in temperment, that Yorkie is not show/breed quality to me. It takes much more then good conformation..infact most show breeders will give up a bit of "looks" over temperment..believe me no one talks a Yorkie into showing if they hate it..they have to be outgoing and friendly to do well in the ring. Few breeders are going to invest $$$ in making a champion who has miserable temperment..you don't want to breed from it..total waste of time and money. The best ring dog is a PET first..it only spends a few minutes at a time in the ring, but hours on your lap..if it doesn't feel like a well loved pet, you can forget it being a terrific show prospect. Dogs who are not bonded to people don't do well...
It is hard to breed some of the recessive faults out..as to knees..it is more then genetics. Weight, injury, constant jumping, simple wear and tear can
add up to bad knees..it is toy dog problem..but far too many vets rush into surgery when stablizing a normal weight etc. will correct it..
You see the problem with knees as many faults, it is almost impossible to know what faults are in what lines. A breeder could decide to place all stock that has produced bad knees,only to buy new stock that has bad bites in the line, get rid of them and get a line riddled with Legg Perthes etc.
I tell breeders to pick a fault they can live with., all dogs have faults in the lines...I will take a lose knee from time to time over a deathly disease like Liver Shunt. LS is so tricky..completely normal liver Yorkie can have a LS puppy...okay, you never breed that combo again. Doesn't mean you are home free. It can skip generations...and the breeder has no clue.
Anyone can breed who wants to breed, I don't think I have been rude to anyone posting about wanting to breed, it is best to try and educate so the Yorkie does not suffer from the breeders ignorance.
Best wishes
PS..I do not know any breeders who cull...I know breeders who give away non-standard colors, but to actual kill them, No.

[SoCalyorkiLvr]

Awesome info as always Pat! Thanks a lot! I learn so much from you!

I am especially glad to learn that breeders don't "cull" puppies anymore! That's wonderful news!

and no...nothing you said was in the least bit rude...just great info!

Thanks

[luvdorkyyorkies]

As always Pat your info is wonderful and I have never read a thread you where you were rude, but are just an excellent breeder who is very knowledgeable and breeds the best.
Kim, I really have to say I like what you said, very well said........and each of your thread, pat and yours both, are a mixture of how I feel.

I think if your yorkie is healthy and you want to breed her do it. I was 37 when I had my son and I am still alive.............LOL, my sister in law 43 with her first child, so the same with yorkies.......if she has good health and is not a tiny, have some precious babies if you like!

[YorkieRose]

Kim..you brought up an interesting subject to me. Plus, I do not pay much attention to what people think..if a person is happy with the type of breeder they are, then they shouldn't feel like they need to defend themselves to a anyone.
As to culling...perhaps it is common among large breeds, but I don't think it is something Yorkie show breeders do as routine. I have only had 2 non-standard pups born in 33 yrs, and it was easy to find good homes for them..but maybe if a Dobie or Boxer breeder got a huge litter of incorrect colors or sickly ones they would cull them..just don't know about that one. LOL

[artie merlino]

You all have great information......If you read my Post?
I was merely bringing up other points or factors that you should consider?
Besides just her age!
Before Breeding.......I didn't mean for you to feel that you had to defend yourself!
Thanks YorkieRose, Pat as usual you always express how I feel in a more technical point of view.

[cebamagirl]

I also have a four year old female yorkie that has never had puppies and was interested in breeding her before she became too old. I was informed that she was too old since she never had a litter before. I thought she was too young when she was two and three years old. She seemed too immature. I guess the best thing to do is ask a vet. Any comments?

[TxVicki]

Originally Posted by cebamagirl

I also have a four year old female yorkie that has never had puppies and was interested in breeding her before she became too old. I was informed that she was too old since she never had a litter before. I thought she was too young when she was two and three years old. She seemed too immature. I guess the best thing to do is ask a vet. Any comments?

I say have her spayed.

[Donnainohio63]

The biggest concern when breeding a smaller dog is C_SECTION.....Can you afford it?

[alaskayorkie]

fyi to the recent posters: This is an old thread -- first posted in 2005.

Oh, nevermind, I see someone else asked a follow-up question.

Carry on.

[shelimcallister]

Originally Posted by Prissy012899

oh thanks, I wasn't trying to be nosey but what I was wondering was how well a 4 year old yorkie would do with a first litter.. I would think it would be harder on her like a 30 yo woman giving birth for the first time..

Wow. I never heard that its harder to give birth for the first time at 30. Seriously?

Nevermind...just saw this is way old.

[Telea]

If you want another Yorkie, why not buy one instead of putting your female in possible medical danger. I bought my second baby from an individual that had one female and one male, I thought that was better then going to a breeder with multiple dogs. Well guess what she ended up getting sick at 3 years and had liver shunt, the kind that can't be fixed with surgery. She died at 6 years old almost a year ago. Let the breeders with experience do the breeding. My first is 8 1/2 and has always been healthy she came from an experienced breeder. I am in the process of buying another female she is 15 weeks and her breeder doesn't let her puppies go until at least that age or until thet are atleast 2 plus pound., She will be 4 months old when I get her. She cares about her puppies and the breed. Yes my new baby will be a small adult, but her mom weighed 7 pounds and the dad 4.5 pounds, she is just little. I pray she will be a healthy baby girl, because we have gone through the loss and liver illness and it is very hard, I will always have a whole in my heart for Mia, please beware and don't breed just for the sake of getting another one, leave it to the professionals. I have waited a year and studied this breeder for over 8 months before I vivisted and picked my baby. There is more to it then just putting 2 dogs together and having puppies, I learned my leason the heart breaking way.

[Lollipopcorner]

Originally Posted by SoCalyorkiLvr

Please don't take this wrong. I am not trying to insult you either, but your post has given me the perfect opportunity to ask a question I have been wondering about if I can think of the proper way to phrase it. I'll give it a try.

Why are some people who own yorkies, especially pet quality yorkies, not "show breeders", so concerned about the casual breeding habits of others? I read what you said about "so many dogs being poorly bred" and for some reason I automatically jump to an analogy regarding people. What if we said that about people? It would be considered rude, and possibly discriminatory, to claim that people were "poorly bred" because they were too short, they weigh too much, their teeth are not straight, or anything else about their outward appearance. Even their personalities or temperaments are not the proper subject. It would be unheard of or at least improper to say that a person should not procreate because they are shy or they are aggressive, etc.

Obviously, I understand that dogs are dogs and people are people (despite how some of us feel about our furbabies), but dogs are "property" under the law and it is your right to breed them if you want to and to whatever dog you want to. Just as I would never tell a friends daughter not to marry or have children with some guy because I didn't feel it would be appropriate for him to have children, I wouldn't think to tell someone else not to breed their dog or what dog to breed them to.

I also understand the health issues involved in the size difference between the dogs and the hereditary "defects" which should be avoided, but as even the breeding experts on this forum will verify, even a DNA test is no guarantee that you are going to avoid some of these condtions by not breeding.

I also know that there are a lot of unwanted dogs in shelters just as there are unwanted and abandoned children in the world, but I still do not think that gives others the right to tell people they should "adopt" rather than procreate and have their own.

I also understand why the "show" breeders don't like the casual breeders, but the majority of the people who own and love yorkies do not care about conformation, faults, recessive genes and the breed standard in general. They care about temperament, health and sharing a happy puppy with others who want a fun pet.

I think some breeders spend more time and money before breeding their dogs than they do before deciding to have a child. I mean scientists are just starting to consider DNA testing on people to avoid certain genetic defects but they have been doing it in animals for years. Does that mean we have a "non chalant attitude" toward having kids as your post would imply?

I just find all of this very curious and wondered what others thought.

Now, I will go duck for cover....No poison darts please!

I think you phrased it well.

[Telea]

Another option is adoption. We adopted a very loving bigger boy named Max, he is the sweetest thing going and loves us so much for giving him a home and uncondional love. He has the perfect silk coat color but was probably miss breed as he is 11 pounds. Someone bought him without doing their homework and finding a good breeder, then they tossed him aside at 2 1/2 years old because he wasn't small and the typical yorkie, but he is the sweetest and most loving dog. He deserved better and we have been blessed to have him in our lives. Yes I want another smaller girl but I will never be sorry for adopting Max, he is best and has brought as a lot of joy and love. His adoption price with all his shots and neutered, a whopping $45.00. Best $45.00 I ever spent. These special babies are out there looking for that forever home.