Last Straw.. He Bit a Little Boy Tonight at Petsmart

[HisNameIsHarley]

Originally Posted by Cares4Dogs

I read the first page of this post and I must ask this-why would you put your hand over and protect the elderly lady's hand (before the bite incident with the child) and stop her from petting your baby--but then give permission for a child to pet??? That confuses me! If your dog has been known to bite--why in the world allow any stranger (especially a child) who comes up and asks in a public place where he's would be most likely to bite? You should have gotten the child to ask his parents first or said NO! You should either muzzle your dog in public or leave it at home--why risk it ??? Especially with a child!!! If I were that childs mother--I'd hold you 100% responsible because you knew your dog could bite and allowed it to happen. My dog sometimes bites too--I can sympathize with you there though.

The childs guardian was right there with him and when I said he sometimes bites and when I described how he must calmly and slowly approach him the guardian made eye contact with me, smiled and nodded. And when he did snap he didn't make any indication that they were angry or anything. Both of them knew he may or may not snap. ( I felt a little bolstered after seeing how he handled being patted and rubbed by the mother and daughter pair ) So I didn't know for sure if he was going to snap. He had been great in the store up to that point. And the reason I grabbed the older ladies hand is bc I had my back turned and she was within hands reach of my dog before I realized and grabbed her hand away out of instinct and also bc she was rushing him. You can't do that to any dog. Even if my dog WAS a totally trusting and calm dog I still would have done the same thing bc I as his owner should atleast have the right to choose if I actually want someone touching my dog. I have a real problem with pet-a-philes and think they are just asking for trouble and are very rude. My mom said to me last night, "Well, every dog that goes to petsmart has got to be friendly and pet-able or they wouldn't be there." Geesh.. NO. The last time I was there I walked by the training area where they were teaching a class and the trainer was explaining how no one should ever assume that all dogs are nice and that they MUST speak to the owner before even entering their space.

My dog is not out for blood.. he does not bite everyone. He has never broken the skin. I made a mistake in petsmart.. That's obvious enough. But I don't need to be put down bc I already learned my lesson and I have been thanking my stars that the incident occured with a caring, calm and understanding youngster and parent. I am now going to say "No." to everyone who asks to touch him for whatever reason and am going to try and train him with a face halti and am looking to find a behavioral trainer to deal with these problems.

Also, a couple months ago I decided to try and switch vets and went to a new one with my Harley. The woman was a wench and hurt and yelled straight into my dogs ear and face. She was totally psycho and scared him to death. And since he has been quite weary of anyone who approaches him without letting him check them out first. She grabbed him up, knocked his feet out from under him, slammed him on the examination table, pinned him down and screamed at him.. Wouldn't YOU be scared too? He has been totally fine in some situations and a wack job in some other ones. I don't know how to expect his actions anymore therefore I am not going to give him the chance to be in these situations anymore until we have successfully handled these fears.

[HisNameIsHarley]

Originally Posted by Cares4Dogs

Im not intending to be unkind in anyway-if its taken that way then Im sorry--I do feel for her that her pet bit a child-I'd feel horrible in that situation, but the owner was thinking clearly when she gave permission to this child to pet her dog that has been known to bite--but she stopped an adult from petting moments earlier. An adult can make decisions for themselves-a child and a dog cannot. Ultimately its the responsibility of the dog owner and parents of our children to protect them both. The parents of that child should have never allowed their child to pet a dog that has been known to bite--I know I wouldnt--its not ALL the owners fault-but she did know better, as she was speaking of previous experience....I just cant absorb the reasoning in not allowing an adult to pet, but then allowing a child. The safety of a child should be of greater importance in this case.

I wish the little fury friend and the owner the best of luck getting through this and hopefully get to the root of the problem and training of the dog so that it does not happen again.

Again. I stopped the older woman bc she rushed him BEHIND my back. She didn't ask permission.. In my opinion if anyone went up to someones dog with out letting the owner give them permission they would have deserved whatever happened. That sounds harsh but it's true. It's the same thing as a stranger walking up and touching or picking up your human child. Crazy isn't it? The boy was there with his parent and approached from a distance and asked politely and was calm and positive. I felt this situation was going to be fine but I was wrong. I have learned my lesson. And he obviously can't be trusted. When Harley went into that new vet and when I put him up on that table he was his original happy, butt wagglin self. And he went TO the vet with a happy and trusting face and look what happened to him. He trusted and he had it smashed around his little feet.

[Carinhosamulher]

I'm not trying to be nasty either, but I agree. If you knew ahead of time that your dog has the predisposition to bite, even i not all the time, then you should not allow people to pet it in public, period. It's irresponsible. Especially if protect an adult but not the child. It doesn't matter if the child's mother was there or not. You know your dog better than anyone. I'm glad you learned a very hard lesson. I hope he gets better.

[red98vett]

I can't believe a vet would be that mean to a puppy - Why is she in the Vet Biz if she acts like she hates animals ?

I'm sure that experience did have something to do with his fears ...and who can blame him for that ? I'd have been in HER face REALLY Quick ...no one should treat a dog that way especially when they're scared of the doctor to begin with.....

[Yorkie Mum]

Originally Posted by HisNameIsHarley

Also, a couple months ago I decided to try and switch vets and went to a new one with my Harley. The woman was a wench and hurt and yelled straight into my dogs ear and face. She was totally psycho and scared him to death. And since he has been quite weary of anyone who approaches him without letting him check them out first. She grabbed him up, knocked his feet out from under him, slammed him on the examination table, pinned him down and screamed at him.. Wouldn't YOU be scared too? He has been totally fine in some situations and a wack job in some other ones. I don't know how to expect his actions anymore therefore I am not going to give him the chance to be in these situations anymore until we have successfully handled these fears.

report what happened to your vet association that is unacceptable.
Or find out shich ones that vet is involved with and report it.

[HisNameIsHarley]

Originally Posted by Yorkie Mum

report what happened to your vet association that is unacceptable.
Or find out shich ones that vet is involved with and report it.

She's the owner of the office! Since I started my new job at Briggs Animal Adoption Center I have learned a lot about her. She works with our "Spay Today" program and you wouldn't believe how many people HATE her. She used to breed and train horses and is about as rough and nasty as some of the horses she probably dealt with. We have had so many complaints bc not only is she nasty and harsh on our animals but she is also a cow to people as well. I caught her in the wrong (I mentioned that I was trying to fight fleas on Harley with a small amount of garlic supp. and asked how much was too much bc I knew that too much could kill any dog and can cause anemia. She said i was wrong and that garlic is not toxic to dogs. I said she was wrong and that onions too are poisonous in the right amounts. Again she said I was wrong. I had her look it up and ter da.. She was wrong.) and boy was she a b*tch about it. Apparently a lot of people have reported her terrible behavior and I have told surrounding vets not to reccomend her to anyone.

[Jaspermom]

Originally Posted by Yorkie Mum

report what happened to your vet association that is unacceptable.
Or find out shich ones that vet is involved with and report it.

It's unreal that any vet would treat any animal like that. This person needs to be reported before they abuse any more animals. WOW...

Hope you are doing well with desensitizing Harley to strangers. Are you doing any special training with him since this incident? I admire you so much, Leanne, for coming out with this post, as it was very brave of you to admit your mistake. No one should critisize you for your actions. Let them walk in your shoes for a minute. You were working on socializing your pup, and humans need to respect a dogs space. Enough said.

Good luck with our buddy Harley, and please give him some belly rubs from Aunti G, and Dreama and Wosie send puppy kisses!

[Cares4Dogs]

Poor Harley-Reminds me of the dentist fussing at my 7 year old for crying in the chair while he's standing over him with instruments-now getting him to go at all is a nightmare....he'd rather lose all of his teeth and get dentures All it takes is one bad experience for anyone or any dog!

[HisNameIsHarley]

One thing I would REALLY like to see.. Is if Harley would act the same with anyone else.. I wonder if he would lash out and snap at people if I wasn't around and if he were with my bf, mom or a total stranger.. I don't know how to find out.. But I'm going to ask Carrie about it on tuesday.

Oh and I made another trip to Petsmart (-Harley ) and bought a Halti and a really cool leash that has a clip on both ends and has d-rings on it that allow me to lengthen or shorten it and even to walk two dogs.. I figured it would be really helpful along with the halti. Innitially Harley tried to paw off the halti but after a good 5 or 10 min he began to ignore it. I'm going to keep practicing with him

I brought one of my other dogs Clovis with me to Petsmart and discovered that he is the worlds most scared doggie! He shook and cried the whole time we were in there! He's a hefty 45 lbs+ and I had to carry him around! lol Good stuff

[Cares4Dogs]

This may sound ignorant, but is it necessary to bring Harley into public if he stresses out? If its not necessary, with the exception of vet visits and grooming, then why stress the little guy out? How is he at home with strangers? Im not a dog expert, but my yorkie mix doesnt like going to strange places so I just leave her at home and if Im going out of town, I get a family member to doggie sit. My girl is pretty good at home-but she doesn't like strangers-I dont blame her cuz neither do I

[Jaspermom]

Poor pup!! Looks like Clovis needs some more outings!

Good luck with the Halti, Leanne. I think that is a great idea!

[HisNameIsHarley]

Harley acts totally normal out in public.. he's nosey, butt's wagglin, ears percked, happy pant.. He's totally content until someone enters his little bubble. You should see how excited he gets when he sees my car keys and his leash! lol He loves going out just can't stand pet-a-philes..

As far as the halti and lead.. I'm going to try and post some pics to make sure I'm doing it all right (hooking everything up correctly).. but that will only happen when I find my camera charger cord! haha might be a while guys! Oh yea and I just took him out on a short walk and he's doing pretty darn good with the halti. He doesn't pull at all (a huge achievement trust me) and he really follows my lead.

Clovis.. lol.. Clovis is a real doll.. Just is a huge baby. The vet has decided that he may be particially mentally challenged and he isn't quite 'always there'.. He is the kindest, sweetest and most gentle dog I have ever owned or encountered.. But he's a real wimp! God love him! hehe

[maxie4]

I think your handling the situation just fine . I hope everything gets better for you. As for the incident with the child and the old lady well it happens and we learn. I know there are many times when we go to petsmart my kids want to pet every dog they see. Even though some people say it is okay I still dont let them. So it was in my opinion the parents fault for letting the child pet even after you said he may bite. So dont let anyone get you down we all one time or another have or will be in that situation. After all dogs have their bad days to lol.

[Yorkie Mum]

I glad that the halti is being accepted and also I agree that you should ask about him going in with anyone else.
I would say not though he may be very much more scared when not with you.

pet-a-philes love this term
I am working on this end too try and post pics.
For my girl the Halti means that she on my time and she is listens well.

Poor Clovis.

Joy

[Cares4Dogs]

Poor clovis--cant wait to see pictures of all of your babies. Maybe you could get Harley a hat that has a no petting logo on it and a shirt with the same....that way when your back is turned-people may see it and think twice before just reaching out to him. If there arent any available on the market-let me know cuz my father can make one.