Last Straw.. He Bit a Little Boy Tonight at Petsmart

[red98vett]

I have a feeling he feels like he's protecting YOU....and from what I've read (I have no experience with this at all) maybe you could try a training class with him to turn this behavior around ?

[Jaspermom]

I am seeing that there are a bunch of good folks offering you great advice, and I really feel like you will be able to turn Harley around, honey. Hang in there!!

[deb4air]

Leanne. Just sending you a hug or two ..and a tail wag to Harley even if he misbehaved I know you love him ..and its like when a kid does somthing bad you just feel so darn bad I know I would..I think You are a good doggie mom and will find a answer till then be good to you and know this is a new day .

[RRRJeep861]

I can relate to you. My Jack (who just turned 1) is the same way. When he's home with me (which is 24/7) he's a sweet pea. He hates most kids and gets very aggressive with them. He growls and runs after them barking and tries to bite them. When were in public I dread someone coming up to us because they automaticly want to reach out and touch. Some people he's ok with and some people he goes nuts trying to bite them.I have no idea what determines his biting moods. I don't know if he's frightened or if it's a protection thing or some other unknown problem . Until I get to the bottom of it I just don't allow anyone to touch him. Try not to get angry with him, I understand your frustration,but it just comes from the unknown, and until we find the cause we can't heal them.

[Rhanna]

Joy,
Can you tell me more about how you used the halti with the harness? I tried it but I was not sure if I was fitting it on my 13 week old yorkie.
Leanne,
I have no answers to your problem. I wish you luck with Harley.

[Carinhosamulher]

I agree. If you know he bites, you definitely should not have let that child even attempt to pet your dog. I suggest not taking him with you when you go on outings unless it is to the vet. It sounds like your dog is completely strung out and a nervous wreck when out in public. You know he bites, so the best thing is to prevent the situation. From now on, when someone asks to pet him, instead of saying "he bites so try this first", you should just simply state "I'm sorry, but I can't let you. He has been known to bite and I don't want to be responsible if you he chooses to bite you. Thank you for taking an interest in my dog though."

I don't mean to sound harsh or anything, but one thing i can not stand is when an owner knows their dog bites but allows it to be put in a situation where it can bite again. That's irresponsible in my opinion. And if you are really that frustrated with the biting, then stop putting him in that situation.

[HisNameIsHarley]

Well, Harley will be a year on March 10, 2006.. As far as why he's aggressive towards some people but not all.. I have no idea.. He HATES being rushed. IE when people come up on him w/o letting him smell and accept them into his 'bubble' and especially when they rush on him and carry their hands over his body.. That's when he REALLY gets defensive. His first experience with children was a bad one. We were sitting outside our local grocery store when two young children approached.. both were acting crazy, making lots of noises, jumping everywhere and being quite random (like children). Well even through all that Harley was ok and just sat on the ground at my feet watching them.. Then one of them came right up to him and kicked him.. Hard.. And he ran back behind the bench we were sitting on and tried to blend himself in with the brick wall.. I was so angry that the kid had hurt my dog that I scooped him up and babied him for a long time. And since he has HATED all kids. Anywhere from 3-13 if you're not atleast 5ft tall he's going to bite you or atleast growl and bark. The bark/growl/cry he makes while (wish he'd make it BEFORE he bites) he's attacking is a HORRIBLE sound.. It's very high pitched and he throws his 'voice' up and down the scale and he cocks his head to the left side and raises his hackles for all the world to see and he looks evil .. And I have made sure that when people (espeically kids) approach him and ask to touch him I stay calm and assertive (sry I love the Dog Whisperer) and don't let any of my emotions run wild so they don't rub off on him. Like last night.. I felt comfortable with the little boy attempting to pet him bc he had done so well with the mother and daughter pair. I don't know if he's trying to protect me.. protect himself.. if he's scared.. if he's mad.. I don't know.. As far as people he's been around.. My goodness.. He adores my dad, my bf Will, Will's dad, my youngest brother Jacob, my Grandaddy, my uncles.. So I know it's no problem with men.. And he's fine with women as well.. But he has bitten my younger cousins.. And of course when they get bit they freak out and don't ever stop to consider that they should stand up to him. I think that if just once a child would get bit/snapped at and not jump away and hold their ground and tell him "NO!" very firmly and insisted that he be submissive.. I think it might help.. We have a full time trainor for our dogs at the rescue kennel where I work.. She is amazing.. I will try and speak to her today about his issues and see if she has any tips too..

Thank you so much everyone! I really needed your support.. I will pm you YorkieMum probably later on late tonight or tomorrow..

[carleirulesme]

I hope things get better for you and Harley...
I hope the kid that kicked your dog was punished by a parent or I hope you said something to that disrespectful brat. I would have went nuts on someone who ever layed a hand on my dog, but that's just me. It will take a lot of patience and someone who knows how to help Harley trust kids again... Good luck and don't give up... Keep your chin up! We'll pray for you!!

[cheryl000]

Originally Posted by HisNameIsHarley

Well, Harley will be a year on March 10, 2006.. As far as why he's aggressive towards some people but not all.. I have no idea.. He HATES being rushed. IE when people come up on him w/o letting him smell and accept them into his 'bubble' and especially when they rush on him and carry their hands over his body.. That's when he REALLY gets defensive. His first experience with children was a bad one. We were sitting outside our local grocery store when two young children approached.. both were acting crazy, making lots of noises, jumping everywhere and being quite random (like children). Well even through all that Harley was ok and just sat on the ground at my feet watching them.. Then one of them came right up to him and kicked him.. Hard.. And he ran back behind the bench we were sitting on and tried to blend himself in with the brick wall.. I was so angry that the kid had hurt my dog that I scooped him up and babied him for a long time. And since he has HATED all kids. Anywhere from 3-13 if you're not atleast 5ft tall he's going to bite you or atleast growl and bark. The bark/growl/cry he makes while (wish he'd make it BEFORE he bites) he's attacking is a HORRIBLE sound.. It's very high pitched and he throws his 'voice' up and down the scale and he cocks his head to the left side and raises his hackles for all the world to see and he looks evil .. And I have made sure that when people (espeically kids) approach him and ask to touch him I stay calm and assertive (sry I love the Dog Whisperer) and don't let any of my emotions run wild so they don't rub off on him. Like last night.. I felt comfortable with the little boy attempting to pet him bc he had done so well with the mother and daughter pair. I don't know if he's trying to protect me.. protect himself.. if he's scared.. if he's mad.. I don't know.. As far as people he's been around.. My goodness.. He adores my dad, my bf Will, Will's dad, my youngest brother Jacob, my Grandaddy, my uncles.. So I know it's no problem with men.. And he's fine with women as well.. But he has bitten my younger cousins.. And of course when they get bit they freak out and don't ever stop to consider that they should stand up to him. I think that if just once a child would get bit/snapped at and not jump away and hold their ground and tell him "NO!" very firmly and insisted that he be submissive.. I think it might help.. We have a full time trainor for our dogs at the rescue kennel where I work.. She is amazing.. I will try and speak to her today about his issues and see if she has any tips too..

Thank you so much everyone! I really needed your support.. I will pm you YorkieMum probably later on late tonight or tomorrow..

I REALLY think that is where his problems stem from, that little kid. Yorkies who haven't been raised around kids fear them alot of the time. Kids move fast and are loud. The kid kicking him made Harley think that kids are dangerous and mean. Dogs don't forget things that are tramatic. He definately needs some work to trust strangers. I would definately work with a trainer first and don't forget to tell that story about the kid, I think that was key. Until you can get him to trust others more, I would be very careful about where he goes in public if you aren't willing to put a muzzle on him. I would hate for something terrible to happen.
Good luck.

[Yorkie Mum]

I would not want an little one telling him no.
It could blow up.
I go the start them from far away.
Watch Harley body language as he is on the ground.
As soon as you see any sign of concern. Like a lip lick or a shake or raopid eye blinking or ears up and starying stop that kid in his tracks. have he/she toss a treat.
stop for the day.
MArk the distance the kid came in distance and try to get the kid closer the next time.
Keep Harely away from radom kids till he is can handle the safe ones approach.
He may never not have3 a big bubble but he can be worked on to accpet gentl kids.
Plus it is ok in my as far as I am concerned that a dog not like everyone. They just have to give you a clear signal that the person in coming is not ok and you must stop that person. Even if it is a shoulder check.
Why most our dogs like everyone. I am not saying it ok to bite I am saying it ok for them to say NO thank you.

Joy

[Yorkie Mum]

Originally Posted by Rhanna

Joy,
Can you tell me more about how you used the halti with the harness? I tried it but I was not sure if I was fitting it on my 13 week old yorkie.
Leanne,
I have no answers to your problem. I wish you luck with Harley.

Hatli is fitted just by making sure it is tight from the straps leading to the buckle. So when it clips togther ther is no give.
They tend to slip loose through the extra strap you pulled tight so pin it snug extra strap to the main hatli.
Also in a bad reaction or a dog blowing they can pop off so a extra line must be run from the hati wher the leash gos on to a collar or martigale or a harness.
The harness must have a D ring on the front part of the chest to clip this line to and I had to get one custom made for me.
http://www.spoiledyorkies.com/
Robin does great stuff and made it for me.
Now if the front piece that goes on the dogs nose is long a stitch van be used to pull it up the dogs nose a little it to sit low though. Just not slid aff the end.

Joy

[Care28]

You've gotten so much great advice here, I just wanted to offer you some hugs and support and GOOD thoughts that little Harley can get past his fear soon. I agree that the little kid that kicked him is key here, Kelli had problems with children because she wasn't raised around them. We had a child that we babysat for a few times who would leave Kelli alone for the most part, but would sometimes chase her with her toys and Kel would run and try to get away from her and when THAT wouldn't work, she'd nip at her. Took several times for me to make the little girl understand that Kelli didn't play that way and she couldn't be aggressive with her. It's horrible to watch them be so scared/mean. *hugs you* I hope that your trainer can help you and little Harley out.

[bchgirl]

Wow, hope you can get Harley to overcome this. Unfortunately, I wouldn't trust him enough around people to take him on outings any more. The liability is just too great. Your admittance that he bites doesn't eliminate the liability, that means YOU already had knowledge of the behavior. I wouldn't chance being sued or worse having a court somewhere saying he had to be destroyed

Good luck

[Yorkie Mum]

He must get out. Social isolation will make this worse but he most be protected from practicing bad habits and he must not be put into the postions of haveing to protect himself from rude people.
He can say no thanks you I rather you not be touch and be nice about it.
Fact is in his body posture and his movements before he bite said that did not wish to be touched. It got missed by an untrained eye. My trained one when distracted, understress or not watching can miss it too.
Then that no thank you, do not touch must be respected.
Why is it we think we must let our dogs be mauled by total strangers do we like it. No nor do they, just cause you as the owner may be comfortable with ever stranger saying hi to you and patting your head does not mean your do does or should have too.
They have to be respectful and not use the teeth but I rather not have my dog touch by everyone out there. My thoughts are get your own darn dog, keep your sticky dirt hands off mine.

Joy

[artierae]

Originally Posted by Yorkie Mum

He must get out. Social isolation will make this worse but he most be protected from practicing bad habits and he must not be put into the postions of haveing to protect himself from rude people.
He can say no thanks you I rather you not be touch and be nice about it.
Fact is in his body posture and his movements before he bite said that did not wish to be touched. It got missed by an untrained eye. My trained one when distracted, understress or not watching can miss it too.
Then that no thank you, do not touch must be respected.
Why is it we think we must let our dogs be mauled by total strangers do we like it. No nor do they, just cause you as the owner may be comfortable with ever stranger saying hi to you and patting your head does not mean your do does or should have too.
They have to be respectful and not use the teeth but I rather not have my dog touch by everyone out there. My thoughts are get your own darn dog, keep your sticky dirt hands off mine.

Joy

I couldn't agree more! All dogs need to be socialized, and the only way is to get them out in public. But we, as owners and caretakers, must be observant of their wants and needs, also. Joy has a good point. I'm not a trainer or anything,just a long time dog owner and lover, but there have been many posts on this site about clicker training and such that I would look into. And, do ask your trainer for advice. If you work with someone who is a trainer, you are already in a position to help your Harley. Take advantage of it. I also like the idea of putting yourself between Harley and whatever is scaring him (strangers, kids, etc.) to let him know you are going to take care of him. I also love the Dog Whisperer. Go ahead and be calm and assertive. But also, as Cesar says, you must be the Alpha --- you must let Harley know you are in control, and will protect him from what he is afraid of. Good luck!