Last Straw.. He Bit a Little Boy Tonight at Petsmart - Page 4 - YorkieTalk.com Forums

FirstYorkie · 02-04-2006, 01:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HisNameIsHarley

I talked to Carrie our trainer and she gave me information about a trainer she knows personally and used to work with... I'm willing to go into debt as long as we can resolve this problem...

EXCELLENT, Leanne! That's great news!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by HisNameIsHarley

Bc for as terrible it seems to me on my side... I know he can't be happy either bc if he were.. he wouldn't be acting out like this..

You are so right. He is acting this way because he is fearful. Life will be so much better for him if you can help him get over this fear.

Good Girl, Leanne! Click! Give yourself a treat (chocolate maybe?).

blhh35 · 02-04-2006, 01:36 PM

My Titus can be the same way so I understand. Hence has been his name Titus Diablo Mojo. One woman told me he was a viscious little dog and I became so defensive! She couldn't possibly be referring to my little bit of heaven! But alas, he does have a tendency to snap at people he doesn't like...although I wonder if that woman's husband stomped at Titus or something to cause the incident. They called the pound. See, Titus will sneak out every now and then if he's fast enough when we leave to get kids to school and I know where he enjoys visiting so I go there to get him back but he can be a monster to try to catch because he loves to go socialize with neighbor dogs. Titus has also bit my brother, after my brother got his hair cut--I don't think he quite recognized him, and he really hates the mailman. We know when the mail arrives because he goes ape**** every time he parks in front of the house. Our mailbox is attached to the front of the house too so...Do you think if yu were to carry treats with you and people who asked to pet him could give him a treat he might be nicer to them?? Just wondering.

crystalsmom · 02-04-2006, 01:51 PM

Hi LeAnn, I haven't run into you posting in awhile but then again I just come on in
spurts. I remember months and months ago when you were doing everything you could and researching everything possible to correct this problem. You really impressed me so much and I pm you to tell you so. I am so sorry he is still this
aggressive and although I didn't read the entire thread at the end here I see you
have found a trainer that may be able to help you. I do hope this will help, you have
certainly given it your all. Keep us posted and I'm sending a giant size hug.

heather_lathrop · 02-04-2006, 04:38 PM

Im so sorry that you have to go through this! It's so hard to deal with behavior issues sometimes. Have you looked into some kind of dog trainer, or therapist?? I know that this sounds crazy, but it may work.. Please feel free to vent anytime, and keep us updated on him..

Juliealfies mum · 02-04-2006, 04:46 PM

Hi LeAnn Ihave a similar prob;em with Alfie he is great with kids that we see regularly but strangers beware! It is so unpredictable . He can be so aggresive and run at their feet and growl ,Iam trying to clicker train him which is going really well with all his commands but when he goes into one of these tantrums its hard to get him to listen , I try and get him to look at me if we are out walking and people he does not know are approaching. This seemed to start when he was about 1year old and he ran at a kids shoes when we were out for a walk. I have a book called click to calm which has a lot of helpful hints , Iam always looking for ideas to help him get over this and I hope you can get over this , meantime I just tell kids not to pat him as he is in a bad mood!

HisNameIsHarley · 02-04-2006, 05:36 PM

Well, I didn't have time to call the trainer today bc work was totally swamped but I did get to talk to our trainer on staff, Carrie. I described to her every little bit of info and play by play scenes and she believes that he is acting out and biting out of fear. She said she won't bet her life on it until she see's him one on one in the situation but she is really worried about him. She aggrees that the halti might be really helpful and a good alternative to a muzzle. Bc when unwanted people (pet-a-philes) walk up and attempt to touch him or get near him I can just pull it a little tighter so he won't be able to bite at all. I've never used a facial halti on him before and I'm not sure how he will react to it but I plan on working with him as long much as it takes. I think the halti idea is a good idea anyway bc he pulls like a husky on the lead so maybe this will help his walking behavior as well. It's really tough to try and teach a dog to heel when their leash is hooked up to their harness.. I can't attach the leash to his collar bc he chokes himself to death.. So maybe we can kill two birds with one stone.. ( I just realized how mean that saying is.. but you guys know what I mean

)

Yorkie Mum · 02-04-2006, 06:15 PM

Make sure you run a short line or rope from the Halti to the collar. Tie the two together. Keep it loose so Halti still does it job.
Just in case He gets the Halti off.
Many do not do this but then they have a wreak with no way to get a dog in a reactive state under control.
I know this as the line was saved Lucy life.
the night she got attacked by the pit bull, she blow the halti and she got free and went to run. I stepped on the leash and had her up in my arms before the dog could go after her a third time. if She'd took off on me I have had no chance of getting her safe or she been in the road and under a car.
I also suggest if you look at all into Tellington Touch and anxiety wraps that you switch to a tight fitting harness with a D ring in front to tie the two together it adds to the body containment these reactive fear guys need.
I have a lady in the states that will make a custom one with a ring at not a bad price if you sometime decided to go that way. She got a soft spot for dinted babies.
I know I keep fireing info at you and hope that it is not to much.
This is what I know.
It the difference between a girl that is feeling well and one that needs a doggy insane asylum. I am not kidding after the attack we had to decide to move forward or put her down. She left her head. She was out for blood and anyones. Took time and slow handleing we got her back going forward.
I had been working with her before as she always been reactive and aggressive do to her poor start ( first owners) and bad gene pool.
I not had the skill set, she not be here.
She worth the money on books, trainers and well the heart ach as the blessing are wonderful.
Joy

HisNameIsHarley · 02-04-2006, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yorkie Mum

Make sure you run a short line or rope from the Halti to the collar. Tie the two together. Keep it loose so Halti still does it job.
Just in case He gets the Halti off.
Many do not do this but then they have a wreak with no way to get a dog in a reactive state under control.
I know this as the line was saved Lucy life.
the night she got attacked by the pit bull, she blow the halti and she got free and went to run. I stepped on the leash and had her up in my arms before the dog could go after her a third time. if She'd took off on me I have had no chance of getting her safe or she been in the road and under a car.
I also suggest if you look at all into Tellington Touch and anxiety wraps that you switch to a tight fitting harness with a D ring in front to tie the two together it adds to the body containment these reactive fear guys need.
I have a lady in the states that will make a custom one with a ring at not a bad price if you sometime decided to go that way. She got a soft spot for dinted babies.
I know I keep fireing info at you and hope that it is not to much.
This is what I know.
It the difference between a girl that is feeling well and one that needs a doggy insane asylum. I am not kidding after the attack we had to decide to move forward or put her down. She left her head. She was out for blood and anyones. Took time and slow handleing we got her back going forward.
I had been working with her before as she always been reactive and aggressive do to her poor start ( first owners) and bad gene pool.
I not had the skill set, she not be here.
She worth the money on books, trainers and well the heart ach as the blessing are wonderful.
Joy

About how much would it cost me if you could help me get that exact set up?

Yorkie Mum · 02-04-2006, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HisNameIsHarley

About how much would it cost me if you could help me get that exact set up?

I hope you mean the tack you need.
Cause if you mean my books, trainers, and my vet you are looking at hundreds possible now looking into the thousands.
My time is free. so my ear. been where you are.
I can not do this for you as I need the dog to size stuff.
You can get the Halti at most pet stores. You are going to need a 0 size.
Now sometimes they have the line with the halti in the box. Sometimes it isn't but beside the boxes. So open a halti box and see should be two pieces.
If not in box or to buy as a second piece. it easy to make. need a leash clip with a loop of rope or leash material. run the clip through the cord loop catching the halti in round loop that the lead goes on. then the clip goes one the collar ring or D ring on the harness. If I could post pics I could show you my set up it is easy.
back of the Halti where the adjustable strap goes through what I call the male end right behind it, safe pin the two strap together so it does not slip loose once it is tight.
I am not sure the cost of a Halti off my head.
Harness http://www.spoiledyorkies.com/categories.php?cat=12
go to this site email robin and pick you harness sizes and colour. tell her you need a D ring like she did for Lucy's Mum, Joy, on the front chest strap. Hanresses runs around 25.
You want her Ribbon & Webbing Harnesses. They are strong and well made.

that done you need one more thing go to the hardware store get a leash clip and clip it on the harness break away buckle d rings that a leash would normally go on the harness at. To make sure it does not pop in an up burst.
Yes it a ton of tack on a small dog but these guys are fast and spin on a dime.
once you get him working for you and if you start doing TTouch ground work that harness will be a great tool. also it just makes then feel their body and focus in better.
We started my girl today on ground work, We got focus.

Joy

Cares4Dogs · 02-04-2006, 08:20 PM

I read the first page of this post and I must ask this-why would you put your hand over and protect the elderly lady's hand (before the bite incident with the child) and stop her from petting your baby--but then give permission for a child to pet??? That confuses me! If your dog has been known to bite--why in the world allow any stranger (especially a child) who comes up and asks in a public place where he's would be most likely to bite? You should have gotten the child to ask his parents first or said NO! You should either muzzle your dog in public or leave it at home--why risk it ??? Especially with a child!!! If I were that childs mother--I'd hold you 100% responsible because you knew your dog could bite and allowed it to happen. My dog sometimes bites too--I can sympathize with you there though.

Yorkie Mum · 02-04-2006, 08:40 PM

Hind sight is 20/20 and sometimes these guys can be just fine for weeks and months and years.
When one is just leanring about how to handle a reactive dog it is normal to wonder if it a one off or do a little denial.
If things where perfect that dog not been breed at all or sold with aggressive markers to a new unskilled owner. Aggression is made by abuse, it is also in the gene pool. It is the gene pool that can determines just how bad this will be.
She did not ask for this to happen. To accept the fur kid she loves is less then perfect is a very hard and hurtful thing to be dealing with.
To ask her to in away think clearly in a time of stress is impossible unfair and unkind.
This is an illness on the part of the dog no less no more then liver shunt, slip knees or anything else these guys can get.
The same respect to her that be give to a owner of a ill dog is needed here at this time.

Joy

Cares4Dogs · 02-04-2006, 08:57 PM

I think if a dog ever bites anyone when it wasnt provoked, then it cant be trusted with children in public places unless the behavior has been evaluated and corrected... even if it has been a year or so since it has happened, but I do agree its very upsetting when your dog bites someone, but I still dont understand why the dog owner would protect the hand of a grown adult and not a child.

Cares4Dogs · 02-04-2006, 09:02 PM

One last thing-I am very sorry your going through this and it will probably never happen again as we all tend to learn our lessons. All of the people here have really good advice and Im sure you'll find what works for your baby. Good luck with your little bitter!

Yorkie Mum · 02-04-2006, 09:13 PM

[QUOTE=Cares4Dogs]I think if a dog ever bites anyone when it wasn't provoked, QUOTE]

To just correct this there is never an unprovoked attack.
That dog said no. It said it in it own way.
That the Mom and the person that reached up missed it is a general lack of knowledge that most trainers of dogs and most people do not understand.
Try reading Turid's book or Bones Would Rain.

Joy

Cares4Dogs · 02-04-2006, 09:45 PM

Im not intending to be unkind in anyway-if its taken that way then Im sorry--I do feel for her that her pet bit a child-I'd feel horrible in that situation, but the owner was thinking clearly when she gave permission to this child to pet her dog that has been known to bite--but she stopped an adult from petting moments earlier. An adult can make decisions for themselves-a child and a dog cannot. Ultimately its the responsibility of the dog owner and parents of our children to protect them both. The parents of that child should have never allowed their child to pet a dog that has been known to bite--I know I wouldnt--its not ALL the owners fault-but she did know better, as she was speaking of previous experience....I just cant absorb the reasoning in not allowing an adult to pet, but then allowing a child. The safety of a child should be of greater importance in this case.

I wish the little fury friend and the owner the best of luck getting through this and hopefully get to the root of the problem and training of the dog so that it does not happen again.

02-04-2006, 01:36 PM	#47
blhh35 YorkieTalk Newbie! Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Radford, Va Posts: 2	I'm so sorry My Titus can be the same way so I understand. Hence has been his name Titus Diablo Mojo. One woman told me he was a viscious little dog and I became so defensive! She couldn't possibly be referring to my little bit of heaven! But alas, he does have a tendency to snap at people he doesn't like...although I wonder if that woman's husband stomped at Titus or something to cause the incident. They called the pound. See, Titus will sneak out every now and then if he's fast enough when we leave to get kids to school and I know where he enjoys visiting so I go there to get him back but he can be a monster to try to catch because he loves to go socialize with neighbor dogs. Titus has also bit my brother, after my brother got his hair cut--I don't think he quite recognized him, and he really hates the mailman. We know when the mail arrives because he goes ape**** every time he parks in front of the house. Our mailbox is attached to the front of the house too so...Do you think if yu were to carry treats with you and people who asked to pet him could give him a treat he might be nicer to them?? Just wondering. __________________ [COLOR=Magenta][SIZE=2]blhh35

02-04-2006, 01:51 PM	#48
crystalsmom Donating YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 7,946	Hi Hi LeAnn, I haven't run into you posting in awhile but then again I just come on in spurts. I remember months and months ago when you were doing everything you could and researching everything possible to correct this problem. You really impressed me so much and I pm you to tell you so. I am so sorry he is still this aggressive and although I didn't read the entire thread at the end here I see you have found a trainer that may be able to help you. I do hope this will help, you have certainly given it your all. Keep us posted and I'm sending a giant size hug. __________________

02-04-2006, 04:38 PM	#49
heather_lathrop Gizmo and Gidget's Pet Donating Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Arkansas Posts: 1,326	Im so sorry that you have to go through this! It's so hard to deal with behavior issues sometimes. Have you looked into some kind of dog trainer, or therapist?? I know that this sounds crazy, but it may work.. Please feel free to vent anytime, and keep us updated on him.. __________________ Heather & Max - In honor of my sweet Ayden!

02-04-2006, 04:46 PM	#50
Juliealfies mum YT 2000 Club Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: scotland Posts: 2,224	Hi LeAnn Ihave a similar prob;em with Alfie he is great with kids that we see regularly but strangers beware! It is so unpredictable . He can be so aggresive and run at their feet and growl ,Iam trying to clicker train him which is going really well with all his commands but when he goes into one of these tantrums its hard to get him to listen , I try and get him to look at me if we are out walking and people he does not know are approaching. This seemed to start when he was about 1year old and he ran at a kids shoes when we were out for a walk. I have a book called click to calm which has a lot of helpful hints , Iam always looking for ideas to help him get over this and I hope you can get over this , meantime I just tell kids not to pat him as he is in a bad mood! __________________ From Julie Alfie & Lottie

02-04-2006, 05:36 PM	#51
HisNameIsHarley YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: West Virginia Posts: 1,119	Well, I didn't have time to call the trainer today bc work was totally swamped but I did get to talk to our trainer on staff, Carrie. I described to her every little bit of info and play by play scenes and she believes that he is acting out and biting out of fear. She said she won't bet her life on it until she see's him one on one in the situation but she is really worried about him. She aggrees that the halti might be really helpful and a good alternative to a muzzle. Bc when unwanted people (pet-a-philes) walk up and attempt to touch him or get near him I can just pull it a little tighter so he won't be able to bite at all. I've never used a facial halti on him before and I'm not sure how he will react to it but I plan on working with him as long much as it takes. I think the halti idea is a good idea anyway bc he pulls like a husky on the lead so maybe this will help his walking behavior as well. It's really tough to try and teach a dog to heel when their leash is hooked up to their harness.. I can't attach the leash to his collar bc he chokes himself to death.. So maybe we can kill two birds with one stone.. ( I just realized how mean that saying is.. but you guys know what I mean ) __________________ LeeAnn Harley Remember.. Dog is God Spelled Backwards

02-04-2006, 06:15 PM	#52
Yorkie Mum YT Addict Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Somewhere land Posts: 364	Make sure you run a short line or rope from the Halti to the collar. Tie the two together. Keep it loose so Halti still does it job. Just in case He gets the Halti off. Many do not do this but then they have a wreak with no way to get a dog in a reactive state under control. I know this as the line was saved Lucy life. the night she got attacked by the pit bull, she blow the halti and she got free and went to run. I stepped on the leash and had her up in my arms before the dog could go after her a third time. if She'd took off on me I have had no chance of getting her safe or she been in the road and under a car. I also suggest if you look at all into Tellington Touch and anxiety wraps that you switch to a tight fitting harness with a D ring in front to tie the two together it adds to the body containment these reactive fear guys need. I have a lady in the states that will make a custom one with a ring at not a bad price if you sometime decided to go that way. She got a soft spot for dinted babies. I know I keep fireing info at you and hope that it is not to much. This is what I know. It the difference between a girl that is feeling well and one that needs a doggy insane asylum. I am not kidding after the attack we had to decide to move forward or put her down. She left her head. She was out for blood and anyones. Took time and slow handleing we got her back going forward. I had been working with her before as she always been reactive and aggressive do to her poor start ( first owners) and bad gene pool. I not had the skill set, she not be here. She worth the money on books, trainers and well the heart ach as the blessing are wonderful. Joy

02-04-2006, 08:20 PM	#55
Cares4Dogs Donating Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: USA Posts: 975	I read the first page of this post and I must ask this-why would you put your hand over and protect the elderly lady's hand (before the bite incident with the child) and stop her from petting your baby--but then give permission for a child to pet??? That confuses me! If your dog has been known to bite--why in the world allow any stranger (especially a child) who comes up and asks in a public place where he's would be most likely to bite? You should have gotten the child to ask his parents first or said NO! You should either muzzle your dog in public or leave it at home--why risk it ??? Especially with a child!!! If I were that childs mother--I'd hold you 100% responsible because you knew your dog could bite and allowed it to happen. My dog sometimes bites too--I can sympathize with you there though.

02-04-2006, 08:40 PM	#56
Yorkie Mum YT Addict Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Somewhere land Posts: 364	Hind sight is 20/20 and sometimes these guys can be just fine for weeks and months and years. When one is just leanring about how to handle a reactive dog it is normal to wonder if it a one off or do a little denial. If things where perfect that dog not been breed at all or sold with aggressive markers to a new unskilled owner. Aggression is made by abuse, it is also in the gene pool. It is the gene pool that can determines just how bad this will be. She did not ask for this to happen. To accept the fur kid she loves is less then perfect is a very hard and hurtful thing to be dealing with. To ask her to in away think clearly in a time of stress is impossible unfair and unkind. This is an illness on the part of the dog no less no more then liver shunt, slip knees or anything else these guys can get. The same respect to her that be give to a owner of a ill dog is needed here at this time. Joy

02-04-2006, 08:57 PM	#57
Cares4Dogs Donating Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: USA Posts: 975	I think if a dog ever bites anyone when it wasnt provoked, then it cant be trusted with children in public places unless the behavior has been evaluated and corrected... even if it has been a year or so since it has happened, but I do agree its very upsetting when your dog bites someone, but I still dont understand why the dog owner would protect the hand of a grown adult and not a child.

02-04-2006, 09:02 PM	#58
Cares4Dogs Donating Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: USA Posts: 975	One last thing-I am very sorry your going through this and it will probably never happen again as we all tend to learn our lessons. All of the people here have really good advice and Im sure you'll find what works for your baby. Good luck with your little bitter!

02-04-2006, 09:13 PM	#59
Yorkie Mum YT Addict Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Somewhere land Posts: 364	[QUOTE=Cares4Dogs]I think if a dog ever bites anyone when it wasn't provoked, QUOTE] To just correct this there is never an unprovoked attack. That dog said no. It said it in it own way. That the Mom and the person that reached up missed it is a general lack of knowledge that most trainers of dogs and most people do not understand. Try reading Turid's book or Bones Would Rain. Joy

02-04-2006, 09:45 PM	#60
Cares4Dogs Donating Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: USA Posts: 975	Im not intending to be unkind in anyway-if its taken that way then Im sorry--I do feel for her that her pet bit a child-I'd feel horrible in that situation, but the owner was thinking clearly when she gave permission to this child to pet her dog that has been known to bite--but she stopped an adult from petting moments earlier. An adult can make decisions for themselves-a child and a dog cannot. Ultimately its the responsibility of the dog owner and parents of our children to protect them both. The parents of that child should have never allowed their child to pet a dog that has been known to bite--I know I wouldnt--its not ALL the owners fault-but she did know better, as she was speaking of previous experience....I just cant absorb the reasoning in not allowing an adult to pet, but then allowing a child. The safety of a child should be of greater importance in this case. I wish the little fury friend and the owner the best of luck getting through this and hopefully get to the root of the problem and training of the dog so that it does not happen again.