Help with my dilemma?

[ColesMommy01]

Oh! I meant to add I think testing should be done every 2 years( I have to go look back at my notes). So if you had OFA/Cerf at 1 you would do it again at 3 years then 5. Bile Acids Testing I would do every year during a wellness exam to check liver functions anyway.

[Deviruchi]

@maxdog thank you!

@colesmommy01 oh. ok thank you for the explanation you def. helped me alot..
but.. now i'm kinda paranoid to see what his topline really is... i'm not sure anymore.. what does it look like to you? in his baby pic when he had fluffier hair, it looks straight, but since its all short and flat now i'm not sure. O-o;
(took forever to take his pic... ugh he wouldn't stay still)

[sorry the pics are blurr... yt wouldn't let me post the original size since they were so big and i had to crop them and make them bigger.. -_-]

[gemy]

First I find it strange that you talk about AKC and paying more. Is it that the breeder sold him to you without papers and if you want to register him with AKC on full registration which means you have breeding rights that she now wants more money from you? Strange way to do this if this is true.


But let me talk about your guy - if you want to be a breeder then you need to handle some honest critiques.


Here we go - in none of the photos is he stacked correctly - but given that what I can see in your pics are the following


Picture 1-3 shows that he is down on his pasterns particularly the front feet. And I feel that would be true even if stacked correctly.


Picture 2 shows a slightly roached back and Pic 3 shows a dip in the mid back - so neither one shows a level topline.


All pics show ears too large and too wideset. This in my opinion is a dog that should not be in the show ring - and therefor should not be bred.


I suspect that the dome of the top of the head is not level - but again hard to tell from these pics.


I would suggest you get a bile acids test done at 6months old whether you want to breed him or not. Liver shunt and MVD is very prevalent in this breed and we don't need more Yorkies suffering from either condition.


There are over 21 genetic conditions a Yorkie can suffer from - this is an extensive list don't you think?


I will try to take a look at the other pics in your album and see what I see.






All pics show me what looks very like a modified coat - not a silk coat. But pics can be deceiving. Very very major flaw.

[Deviruchi]

@gemy i don't mind critiques, i'm trying to learn so all is welcome.

i originally bought kupo as limited akc, but he was also offered to buyers as breed quality. i was promised the limited akc paper after proving that he was neutered, but when i talked to my breeder about it later and she said they cost some more $$$, so i was considering to get him full akc instead.

i've tried to get him to be in proper picture, as my breeder requested today, but i can't seem to get kupo to stay still, since he just wants to run around and play. but looking at it now, it does seem like his back is slightly arched, but then again it seems straight in different angles so i'm kind of confused..

and er.. for his ears.. i was told by some that if his hair grows in, and i tip ear and all, it'd look smaller lol. i'm not sure if this is true or not.

*dome of the head* how am i supposed to tell if its leveled or not?

please check out http://ellokupo.tumblr.com temp pw is kupokupo. i've posted some of his pictures there.

and as for his hair, its definitely turning silky, his head hair is changing and so is his body's. he's still only 4 and i was told that it takes some time for yorkie's hair to change to his adult coat (upto a year i think..... no?)

sorry for lots of questions and thanks in advance.

[gemy]

No problem at all. Love the questions. Well if you could do a short video of him moving I might be able to tell more. Wide ear set can not be hid - well actually some do try to hide it in the show ring - but not that wide apart....


I looked at his album and I saw same same for his coat. If you look at his legs which are a good indicator they are pretty full for his age and look fluffy. But coat texture is the hardest to tell through pics.


I will link for you in next post my GCH Razzle video - it will show him at 3 months old and up - but in his young pics look at the muzzle his legs and his coat.


And by no means is he perfect just a very good representative of the breed and a multi champion.

[gemy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zey...ature=youtu.be

[ColesMommy01]

Yay Gemy's here!!!!! Ok, I just wanted to say that it is rather odd that your breeder originally sold Kupo on limited then later said you can register him for full registration for more money. I thought from your original post she would lift the limited if he was proven as breed/show worthy but not for more money.

Honestly, I think that's a crock. Either he'd be show worthy or not and she'd sell him to the appropriate home based on his eligibility. Whether it be show home or pet. She wouldn't say if you give me x amount of money I'll give you breeding rights.

Unfortunately, I can't comfortably critique Kupo since I'm just getting into breeding/showing myself. Judging by pictures when not stacked is really difficult for experienced show breeders let alone a newbie like myself.

[Deviruchi]

@gemy, My phone... actually have no space left for me to film vids with.. :/ I forgot to buy sd card for this phone after losing my other one and it's been filled with documents for schools and such.. lol

As for Kupo's coat, groomers were telling me that it's starting to be silky. (been seeing them since he was 12 weeks old) and I can feel the difference between now and back then. But that's your puppy in the video? He's really pretty.

And... so you think Kupo shouldn't breed at all? Honestly, my heart felt like it sunk to the bottom when I read that.. :/

[Deviruchi]

@colesmommy01, Oh, I didn't know if that was weird... it was first time me buying a dog from a breeder, and dealing with AKC at all... I thought that was the norm... lol T_T;

I just sent the breeder new pics of Kupo, and she agrees now that he looks like his back is slightly curved, but also stated that he should make a great stud with the right female and that he "has the potential to throw show pups"... what does that sound like to you?

I'm now confused with all this and I feel as if Kupo is not good enough to breed at all.. :/ and now I'm paranoid about his back and worried if something will happen to it.. T_T;

[ColesMommy01]

This is just my experience but the breeder I bought my male from had the pups priced as either limited or full registration. If it was a full registration a pup would cost x amount regardless if it was a male or female same pricing rules applied for limited registration. Full registration pups have to be shown in agility or conformation.

A friend of mine flew with me to pick up my male's littermate and her pup's codes for full registration had already been blacked out by the breeder. There was no going back on whether or not she could breed her pup. The breeder had already made the decision prior to selling and told any potential buyers that if they wanted her she'd be limited registration and possibly already spayed.

Imo any purebred has the potential to throw show quality pups, but your chances are more likely if the sire/dam are show quality themselves. I would not breed a dog with a roach back, under/overbite, cotton coat, or tempermemt issues that don't fit the stereotypical terrier personality.

[Deviruchi]

@colesmommy01, oh that's what i meant too.. when i was buying kupo, he was listed as *this amount as pet[limited akc] or contact for breed/show price[full akc]*. Kupo's dad was a champion so he was championsired and his mom's mom and dad was champion and championsired.. (not sure what i'd call his mom lol).

um... and 2nd paragraph.. i'm not getting it.. sorry my english is bad... read it over and over again and i'm not fully understanding it.. T_T; are you saying that eventhough you were trying to get full registration, breeder backed out and told you she'll HAVE to be limited and get the puppy spayed? and what did you mean by "had already been blacked out by the breeder?"

[Deviruchi]

ok deleted some files and got some space for a short clip of kupo.
here's the link.
Kupo

[ColesMommy01]

Originally Posted by Deviruchi

@colesmommy01, oh that's what i meant too.. when i was buying kupo, he was listed as *this amount as pet[limited akc] or contact for breed/show price[full akc]*. Kupo's dad was a champion so he was championsired and his mom's mom and dad was champion and championsired.. (not sure what i'd call his mom lol).

um... and 2nd paragraph.. i'm not getting it.. sorry my english is bad... read it over and over again and i'm not fully understanding it.. T_T; are you saying that eventhough you were trying to get full registration, breeder backed out and told you she'll HAVE to be limited and get the puppy spayed? and what did you mean by "had already been blacked out by the breeder?"

Lol no biggie, I get ahead of myself at times. The second paragraph just meant that when my friend and I contacted our breeder and told her what we were looking for(I was looking for show potential whereas my friend wanted strictly a pet).

The breeder said "I have pups a & b who I consider show potential and they will have to be shown in agility or conformation. For pets I have pups c & d and they'll be limited registration with no breeding rights and may already be sterilized by pick up day.

For AKC registration packets there's a code for full registration that breeders will mark/cut out if the pet is to be sold limited with no breeding rights. The breeder marked out my friend's puppy's code in her packet since she was sold as a pet but left my pup's code since he'll be shown.

[Deviruchi]

@colesmommy01 oh.. lol ok. i get it..thanks for the clarification

but did you see the vid? how bad do you think kupo is? i'm kinda worried now and even considering contacting a vet again soon to check out his back.. or am i just over reacting..? i mean she did say that he was very healthy and now i'm like.. wut... something is wrong with his back? T_T_T_T_T_;

[gemy]

Let me hope I can do my reply before my puter freezes again. Don't worry about the roach it is mild and should not case future health problems.


But he is definitely down on his pasterns. How much exercise does he get daily? He also looks like he is sickle hocked. Maybe he felt restricted with the leash on him?


The ears are what they are. But in this video his coat color looks very dark.


I am so glad you came to us asking questions - it shows that you care for the breed and want to do the right thing !


I think this dog is not show quality and wont or should not make it in the show ring and well should not be bred based on his structure/movement and what I have seen of his coat.


I am a show breeder with strict requirements prior to breeding. The very best advice I can give at this point is find another reputable show breeder and have them evaluate your dog.


Neuter or not your decision - but keeping a dog intact is a different question as to whether or not to breed this dog. For most breeds and again I caution there are no peer reviewed studies on specifically YORKIES and the effect of neutering - but the single most negative thing is BPH Benign Prostate Hypertrophy which may or may not cause problems later on in life. their is a very slight risk of increased testicular cancer - again dealt with by neutering. The studies so far on males are basically for health alone somewhat equal as to benefits and risks of neutering.


But know that you need to keep every intact dog safe from breeding - that is your responsibility over the lifetime of your pet. Know how to do this and then do it!