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Old 04-26-2015, 04:35 PM   #1
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Default Lots of great info on this link

Rabies Miasm In Dogs - Dogs Naturally Magazine
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Old 04-29-2015, 05:32 AM   #2
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Wow, that miasm article is interesting...
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Old 04-29-2015, 03:34 PM   #3
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Confused

Especially the hereditary part .....
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Old 04-29-2015, 05:33 PM   #4
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I have a real problem with a vet suggesting not to give rabies vaccines.

Quote:
. If your dog has had at least two rabies vac.cinations, you might want to look into the option of finding a veterinarian willing to write a letter of exemption for the rabies vaccine, especially if he has any symptoms of chronic disease, no matter how subtle.
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Old 04-29-2015, 05:41 PM   #5
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I couldn't even finish reading it it's a bunch of blah. Yeah my dog is scared of thunderstorms because she got the rabies vaccine
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Old 04-29-2015, 05:42 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by megansmomma View Post
I have a real problem with a vet suggesting not to give rabies vaccines.
Yeah let's break the law for no reason. I get if your dog is seriously sick but just for no reason is crud.
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Old 04-29-2015, 06:05 PM   #7
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Rabies Vaccines & Aggression in Dogs-Pure Pseudoscientific Fear Mongering
Posted on November 19, 2014 by skeptvet
One of the most bizarre manifestations of pseudoscientific and anti-scientific thinking, particularly popular among homeopaths, is the insistence that the most effective preventative healthcare intervention in history, vaccination, is actually a dangerous and destructive poison foisted on the unsuspecting public by ignorant or evil doctors. In the human health arena, this is most dramatically seen in the persistent belief that vaccines cause autism, despite overwhelming evidence this is not true, and in the resurgence of preventable diseases in areas where misguided parents choose to deny effective immunization to their children.

Veterinarians and pet owners, sadly, are no more resistant to nonsense and unscientific fear mongering about vaccines. I have written before about misguided vets who encourage clients to expose their animal companions to potentially deadly infectious diseases rather than make appropriate use of safe and effective vaccines. No one denies that vaccines can have undesirable effects. Most rare and minor, and some are rare but very serious. However, the overwhelming majority of the claims made by anti-vaccine activists about vaccine safety are pure fantasy unsupported by any real scientific evidence. A recent example, pointed out to me by a reader, illustrates the shameless use of distortion, misuse of irrelevant references to real science, and pure invention and lies to generate irrational fear of vaccines.

An article from the usually unreliable source Dogs Naturally Magazine, has been making the rounds on Facebook with claims that rabies vaccination causes violent behavior in dogs. I am hesitant to discuss this claim simply because it is like discussing the intellectual merits of creationism or alien abduction—the very act of refuting it makes it seem like an idea that is sane enough to deserve a response. Unfortunately, such nonsense, however ludicrous, can still mislead pet owners into making dangerous choices for their pets, so I will briefly point out why this article deserves to be dismissed out of hand.

Emotionally manipulative use of anecdotes-
The article tells tragic stories of people injured by their dogs. As horrible as these experiences are, they have absolutely no bearing on the truth of the claim that rabies vaccine were responsible for the behavior. There are thousands of dog attacks worldwide every year and the overwhelming majority of them do not follow any kind of vaccination. To claim that the occurrence of vaccination before such an attack is evidence for a causal relationship is an elementary error in logic that is inexcusable in anyone with even a rudimentary scientific education. It is as ridiculous as believing that we cause it to rain by washing our car.

The purpose of these stories is not to prove anything, since they cannot, but simply to manipulate people into feeling fear.

Self-serving conspiracy theorizing-
The article acknowledges that the overwhelming majority of veterinarians, with extensive training and experience in veterinary medicine, reject the theory that rabies vaccination causes aggression. Instead of recognizing that this might be a reason to question the hypothesis, the article suggests that the few who believe in the idea are the only ones smart enough, brave enough, or otherwise capable of seeing a supposedly obvious relationship. The majority who reject it must be either unconscionably ignorant or deliberately ignoring the truth despite the danger to their patients and clients.

The sheer arrogance of this kind of thinking is stunning. Certainly, widespread belief in an idea is not incontrovertible evidence that idea is true. The majority is wrong about things all the time (which the folks at Dogs Naturally conveniently ignore when they are claiming we should accept alternative therapies because lots of people think they work). However, when almost all the experts in a scientific field agree and only a few practitioners of pseudoscientific nonsense like homeopathy think the idea is true, that is reason to at least ask the question, “What’s the evidence?”

There is no evidence-
Which brings us to the other ways in which the article tries to support its fantastic claim. The simple fact is that there is no scientific evidence to back up the claim, so the article cheats and tries to imply that other claims which are true somehow imply theirs is too. For example, lots of quotes from the Merk manual (a rather old-fashioned medical reference pretty universally ignored by real doctors and scientists) about encephalitis. This article, however, has nothing at all to do with rabies vaccination. It’s like saying that because diabetes exists it must be true that wearing blue causes diabetes.

The article also cites references (most 30-40 years old) to neurologic disease cause by distemper vaccines (NOT rabies vaccines). This is a rare and acute disease caused by insufficient weakening of the distemper virus used in the vaccine and has nothing to do with rabies vaccination (a killed viral vaccine) or with any of the other suggested causes for the mythological disease of rabies-vaccine induced aggression. The same is true for the citation of a forty-year old Italian journal article on vaccination and epilepsy and all of the other references to irrelevant scientific research that has nothing to do with the claims made in this article.

The article supports its claims with references to other disproven and ridiculous claims-
As already mentioned, the claim that vaccines cause autism is complete nonsense that has been thoroughly disproven, and the main research paper suggesting this relationship has been withdrawn for fraud and its author stripped of his medical license. Citing this idea and its supporters in defense of the claims made about rabies vaccines in this article is itself a strong reason to ignore those claims since their proponents clearly will believe anything no matter what the evidence.

The same is true for the claim that veterinary homeopaths have an explanation for the problem in the form of the “Rabies Miasm.” A miasm is a completely bogus idea invented in a time when people still believed demonic possession was real and bloodletting was a safe and effective treatment for disease. It has all the scientific legitimacy of astrology or, for that matter, the rest of the theoretical nonsense that underlies the practice of homeopathy, which I have discussed many times before. The symptoms listed as supposed signs of Rabies Miasm are a hodgepodge of things that, like any good horoscope, one can see as applicable to absolutely every patient with any disease to one extent or another.

In addition to referencing Andrew Wakefield and Richard Pitcairn, both classic quacks promoting pseudoscientific alternatives to real medicine, the article quotes Russell Blaylock, a former neurosurgeon who has become a full-time crusader against scientific medicine and in favor of a wide variety of ridiculous pseudoscientific ideas, and Harold Buttram, another rabid anti-vaccine activist. These are not “experts” or reliable sources but ideological crusaders opposed to the majority not only of scientists and doctors but the majority of the actual evidence concerning vaccine safety. Referencing them simply reinforces the extremist and anti-science nature of this article and its claims.

Now undoubtedly, people will make comments on this post like “How can you be sure rabies vaccine doesn’t cause aggression?” I am happy to admit the idea is not impossible. However, the decision whether or not to change a well-established medical practice that has had great benefits is not whether concerns about it are possible, but rather whether there is any reason to believe they are justified. In this case, there is not.

Rabies is a deadly disease which has caused enormous suffering and death for humans and animals alike for thousands of years. Rabies vaccination has virtually eliminated this problem for dogs in developed countries, and for the people those dogs would kill if they were afflicted with rabies. And in the decades over which this has been accomplished, there has been no reliable scientific evidence to suggest the vaccine causes the problems claimed in this article. As I have shown, these claims are made by ideological extremists who support many conclusively disproven ideas, and they have offered no evidence to back up their claims, only emotionally manipulative anecdotes, irrelevant and misleading references to unrelated science, and the opinions of unreliable believers in pseudoscience.

This article is not a reason to abandon rabies vaccination or expose your pet and your family to the risk of this terrible disease. Please do not be frightened or misled by these false arguments and scare tactics. Rabies vaccines are not perfect, but they are incredibly safe and very effective, and they save lives, both human and canine. Any change in our use of these vaccines should be based on sound science, not hysteria and pseudoscience.


Rabies Vaccines & Aggression in Dogs-Pure Pseudoscientific Fear Mongering | The SkeptVet
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Old 04-30-2015, 04:28 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Lovetodream88 View Post
I couldn't even finish reading it it's a bunch of blah. Yeah my dog is scared of thunderstorms because she got the rabies vaccine
Why would you even say this??? How would *you* feel if someone wrote something like this about something YOU posted because YOU found it interesting and thought others might too???

I'm sorry, but this is rude, closed minded, and uncalled for toward something the OP posted.

If it's not up to your standards but you can't post a respectful, thoughtful, or insightful reply - then please just do not reply at all.
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Old 04-30-2015, 05:04 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by megansmomma View Post
I have a real problem with a vet suggesting not to give rabies vaccines.
I do too. I disagree with everything in the article.
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Old 04-30-2015, 05:55 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom View Post
Why would you even say this??? How would *you* feel if someone wrote something like this about something YOU posted because YOU found it interesting and thought others might too???

I'm sorry, but this is rude, closed minded, and uncalled for toward something the OP posted.

If it's not up to your standards but you can't post a respectful, thoughtful, or insightful reply - then please just do not reply at all.
Yeh , we didn't know it would be up for a debate did we. Interesting ....is ...interesting....take it or leave it...
I didn't write the article😳....and I'm no expert on any subject...just in my own skin here people....passing it on.
But maybe they didnt mean to be rude......just judgemental😱😱😱
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Old 04-30-2015, 05:58 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Zoey Zendaya View Post
Yeh , we didn't know it would be up for a debate did we. Interesting ....is ...interesting....take it or leave it...
I didn't write the article😳....and I'm no expert on any subject...just in my own skin here people....passing it on.
But maybe they didnt mean to be rude......just judgemental😱😱😱
Not saying it isn't ok to state whether to you agree or disagree ...that's freedom of speech ...so is stating your opinion ....yet that rude word still needs to be evaluated😊
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Old 04-30-2015, 07:46 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoey Zendaya View Post
Not saying it isn't ok to state whether to you agree or disagree ...that's freedom of speech ...so is stating your opinion ....yet that rude word still needs to be evaluated😊
Some of us take public health concerns and evidence-based medicine very seriously. I hope you understand why some of us do not find the article interesting. I actually think articles like this perpetuate unfounded fears about vaccine along with unproven theories concocted by holistic vets. I don't think it's closed minded to wholly reject as out of hand the very bizarre opinions and practices of some holistic vets. I'm very open minded to complementary aspects of health and nutrition and preventative medicine, but I do not think it is ever an absolute substitute for real evidence-based medicine.
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Old 04-30-2015, 08:06 AM   #13
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I couldn't finish it either. As for the OP saying she is just sharing it...she went beyond that by saying it is great information. I don't find it to be great information at all...not being judgemental...I am telling the truth. Stuff like this worries me greatly.

Opinions and websites like this tell people it is ok to risk their own and their pets lives...not to mention other innocent people who don't have a choice, to conditions and illnesses that have largely been eradicated. I wish there were a way to mark those people and their pets because quite frankly I don't want what they put themselves at risk of. This all reminds me of the people who won't vaccinate their children for fear of autism even though it has been scientifically been proven that vaccines don't cause it. But, now people are contracting measles and some die?? Same thing here...this is rabies...I am honestly shocked at the vast numbers of people who don't fear rabies.

Is there a chance that we are over vaccinating? Perhaps, but let research come to that conclusion. I would much rather over than under. As for this condition...I could probably find some of those symptoms in every pup in my house.
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Old 04-30-2015, 08:08 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoey Zendaya View Post
Yeh , we didn't know it would be up for a debate did we. Interesting ....is ...interesting....take it or leave it...
I didn't write the article😳....and I'm no expert on any subject...just in my own skin here people....passing it on.
But maybe they didnt mean to be rude......just judgemental😱😱😱

I don't think that anyone was rude to you regarding your post. My opinions are based on science based medicine and have a hard time swallowing the huge pseudoscience smoke and mirrors. Things are passed around on the internet all the time as factual while in fact they are opinions from very questionable sources. When I share something on YT or FB I'll read then research the subject for validity before posting. IMO, that helps to stop the rampant sharing on invalid information since most people just share things as fact once they see in. I saw this on FB this morning and I have to agree with him. President Lincoln was known as Honest Abe so he can't be wrong!
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Old 04-30-2015, 08:33 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by megansmomma View Post
I don't think that anyone was rude to you regarding your post. My opinions are based on science based medicine and have a hard time swallowing the huge pseudoscience smoke and mirrors. Things are passed around on the internet all the time as factual while in fact they are opinions from very questionable sources. When I share something on YT or FB I'll read then research the subject for validity before posting. IMO, that helps to stop the rampant sharing on invalid information since most people just share things as fact once they see in. I saw this on FB this morning and I have to agree with him. President Lincoln was known as Honest Abe so he can't be wrong!
No, Taylor's comment was rude, period.

It's NOT cool or acceptable here at YT to just say stuff like "yeah that article you posted is just a bunch of crap" -- there is simply no reason to treat people in this manner. If anyone thinks that's fine here at YT, then this is NOT the right forum for you to participate in and you need to go elsewhere.

For someone claiming to have her feelings constantly hurt here at YT, Taylor is seemingly oblivious lately as to how she affects other human being's feelings here, and not just in this thread here.

People, seriously, if you cannot treat people decently at this forum and/or just even recognize and acknowledge when something is rude -- then you maybe do not belong on this forum.

Members here at YT are WELCOME to post these kinds of articles and if anyone does not like it and feels the need to be derogatory about it, you simply need to refrain from posting, end of story.

For petes sake, we're ONLY asking that people be DECENT to other people here. If that's not doable, then leave.
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