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Old 04-27-2015, 01:43 PM   #1
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Default How important is a pedigree?

I have viewed a few litters recently as we are looking for a partner for Crystal (2 yrs). Some have pedigree's, others not. I tend to go on the home and type of breeder (pro, or not), the mother and the look. Crystal was love at first sight for example

Also are they OK to leave Mom at 10 weeks?
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Old 04-27-2015, 02:36 PM   #2
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I think Pedigree is important not just to determine who was a champion of not but to assess the lineage for health and the possible standard look you may get from your new puppy . You should check out some of tge resources here that help guide members on what to look for when buying a puppy.

12 weeks when you should be bringing your new pup home no sooner . Congrats and good luck in your search
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Old 04-27-2015, 03:18 PM   #3
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Breeding is a walk through a mine field. Pedigrees are as important to a breeder as a land mine detector is to anyone walking through a mine field. Pedigrees are the genetic template for what you can expect in your puppies. Looks, personality, size, color, coat texture, conformation, genetic diseases, congenital maladies.....these are all in your pedigrees behind BOTH parents, at least 12 generations back. Some pedigrees do not mix at all and produce issues because you have bred two "carriers" and WHAM! YOU end up with a major problem. Breeding is a crap shoot when you have invested years and years into studying pedigrees, the lines of the dogs you are going to breed, etc....it is an enormous amount of time and effort and MONEY, especially if you show your dogs. I had a doctor friend once that said owning a boat was like throwing money in a hole in the water......well, breeding is the very same thing!
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Old 04-27-2015, 03:29 PM   #4
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The pedigree is very important to me. I want to see generation after generation after generation of healthy dog before I make a decision to purchase. Except for the tragic accidental death of my precious Zoey, every dog I have ever owned has lived to old age (15+ years). Their health is priority #1 and the pedigree is how I try to improve the odds.
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Old 04-27-2015, 04:34 PM   #5
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IMHO. If I'm getting a Yorkie and spending alot of $$. I look at the pedigree. If I wasn't I would rescue. Some ppl breed to make money. Some ppl bred to show Ths trying to improve the breed to make their next Champion. Not all Yorkies in the linage will be or need to be Championed. Some dogs do not show well or like to. But a breeder know its traits and may want to add= long legs, long coat ect.. Or just adding different bloodline when no other is available.
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Old 04-27-2015, 04:55 PM   #6
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Doc I am not sure how things are done in England. But if this is a Kennel Club Breeder that has the pedigree dogs AND knows the health lineage - for generations back and knows What health problems have cropped up in that lineage I would be very apt to go with this type of breeder. I don't know if you have Registries in England that are what we call here paper registries - which are basically useless. I would stay away from paper registries.


Why any breeder is selling dogs without a *pedigree* I have no idea why! If you are breeding purebred dogs they All should come with a pedigree....


SirTeddyKins a member here is from and still lives in England - she I am sure would be willing to give you some advice about Englands' breeders and how to find a reputable one in your country.


Best of luck in your search
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Old 04-27-2015, 10:19 PM   #7
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I agree that a pedigree is important even to the pet buyer for health reasons. You do have to make sure that the breeder actually understands the pedigree and can tell you about the ancestry of the pet. In this county anyone can obtain a pedigree for a fee from the registry. Any experienced and reputable breeder should be able to tell you about the lines that those dogs came from.

Knowing and understanding the health guarantee would be another important factor. Of course, feeling comfortable with the over all knowledge of the breeder and their desire to breed healthy pups is a given.

A breeder with no pedigree has no idea what kind of genetic difficulties that they may have produced.
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Old 04-28-2015, 01:55 AM   #8
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Firstly thank you all for your kind replies. In the UK we have KC approved breeders, who have bi-yearly inspections and their details scrutinized etc. These people register their dogs with the club and you can expect papers going back at least 5 generations, showing the hereditary lines.

Secondly there are breeders who are not KC registered and thereby in paying no inspection fees etc cannot register their dogs with the club. They tend to be enthusiastic amateurs, who love the dogs they procreate without the published specifies into inherited genes etc. This category still of course produces lovely Yorkies, but as with the likeness to owning a boat, it can become a money chute. Crystal (our present York) was a re-home at 20 weeks of age, she had no accompanying papers, apart from her inoculation certificates. At 27 months now, she has a luxating patella (1), but seems rudely in health and her cutter, who made many appearances at Crufts over 40 years says she has a wonderful show coat and very aristocratic lines.

I have recently been asked $450 and $1200 and to be honest the pups at 6 weeks old each, looked identical? That said, its whats beneath the skin that counts I'm sure and I want a happy healthy dog - in that equation cost is immaterial. The more expensive pup traced back to Osman Sameja (otherwise known as the Ozmillion) line, with many show champions listed. He was 'Crufts' Grand Champion in 1997. The other little girl was much smaller and a real cutie from a doting owner. So my ambivalence is heart over mind and for a seasoned, retired , but very soft-hearted Economist, that's a bit of a challenge!
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Old 04-28-2015, 02:36 AM   #9
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It’s really great posts.
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Old 04-28-2015, 02:50 AM   #10
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Does Pedigree matter? If you want a purebred yorkie with health guarantees and stable temperament (i.e. standard for the breed), coat, personality, etc. then "yes". It matters greatly. What also matters is to NOT just go by the KC confirmation i.e. KC registered. Lots of Yorkies who look nothing like Yorkies are 'KC registered'.


I believe you are referring to the Ozmillion line which is where Teddy hails from. However, after three generations, this line is virtually non-existent. Teddy, himself, is the third generation from Ozmillion Mystification which is to whom you are referring to when you refer to the 1997 Champion. Follwing that, his line has Ozmillion champs on both sides but Mystifications genes are increasingly diluted the further down the line you go. If your pup is not third generation, or before, then the line is just being touted as a reputable line but it holds little bearing in terms of anything else as far as your puppy is concerned. I'm sure some breeders will back me up on this.. Therefore, what is important is that your breeder is KC registered but ALSO verifiable in other ways. For example, Teddy's breeder is a Crufts judge, international judge and shows her own dogs at Crufts. In addition, she was co-president of the Yorkshire Terrier Club of England and writes for a dog newspaper. She has a reputation to uphold which means, even without KC backing, she would not endorse deviation from the breed standard.


So, that is part of what I researched for over two years before settling on a Yorkie again. I did not check champdogs.co.uk or pets4homes or any of that nonsense which states KC reg pups for pups that look nothing like Yorkies. Teddy came from a reputable breeder who upholds the line and standards and guess what? He was 600 not 800, not 1k or above.


That is my opinion and hope it helps.


Good luck!
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Old 04-28-2015, 02:57 AM   #11
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Wanted to add that the breeder from whence Teddy came does not release her pups before 12 weeks. In my opinion, if they can't wait the two extra weeks it implies there may be other breed standards which are being ignored. What is the hurry? These are the questions I'd ask myself before purchasing from someone, KC or not, who does not follow the breed standards. This is a relatively small one and is for the health of the breed so, to my mind, there is no justifiable reason (which is good for the dog) as to why release before 12 weeks is encouraged by a 'breeder'.
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Old 04-28-2015, 05:36 AM   #12
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As sirteddykins said most purebred dogs can be traced back to some very established and respected lines. It is the most recent ancestors that really matter as far as health and quality. Some lines do not mix well with other bloodlines. A disreputable breeder will breed dogs despite genetic incompatibility. It seems innocent enough, two dogs that are outwardly lovely being bred seems logical but it is the genetics behind those dogs that really matter. Even reputable breeders sometimes have a bad match and those pups should be spayed/neutered so they cannot continue the bad mix.

Maybe some else here knows more about registries in your county. We have several here but only one that is actually reputable.
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Old 04-28-2015, 01:19 PM   #13
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I don't think a pedigree is all that important. I think it may tell you something about the structure and beauty of a dog relative to the standard but it is not going to tell you if those dogs were all healthy. My Teddy has a pedigree w/ some very nice dogs and you cannot tell reading his pedigree that he has 5 health problems that are proven to be genetic. His breeder swore up and down that he was an outlier when compared to her other dogs over a 30 year history of breeding. As yorkiemom said, it's a minefield. It's like having 100 children -- one of them might have a problem yet the other 99 could be perfectly fine. So I would say use a pedigree as a starting point for a conversation w/ your breeder -- what can she tell you about those dogs and their health?
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Old 04-28-2015, 03:15 PM   #14
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IMo if your dog has a problem in the lines you tell the breeder and the should stop breeding those lines. Or If you are researching lines you can look up the dogs and find there lifespan. With no predigree you are spending the same anyways and may have even worst breeding practices. But yes its still all a gamble I just like to better the odds I would hate to be the 1 or 10 outta 100. But a bad backyard breeder can be 50-60 outta 100..Never know. JMO
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Old 04-28-2015, 03:25 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ironmike86 View Post
IMo if your dog has a problem in the lines you tell the breeder and the should stop breeding those lines. Or If you are researching lines you can look up the dogs and find there lifespan. With no predigree you are spending the same anyways and may have even worst breeding practices. But yes its still all a gamble I just like to better the odds I would hate to be the 1 or 10 outta 100. But a bad backyard breeder can be 50-60 outta 100..Never know. JMO
Yes but once you have the dog, you're the one dealing with all the issues. How do you look up how long they lived with the pedigree?
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