How important is a pedigree?

[docmartin]

Originally Posted by 107barney

Yes but once you have the dog, you're the one dealing with all the issues. How do you look up how long they lived with the pedigree?

Excellent point, just what I've been worrying about. I guess the pedigree is at least one precaution in the genetic lottery and a good place to start. I'm going to consult our regional Yorkshire Terrier Club Secretary tomorrow who offers sound advice on Eastern England breeders.

[ironmike86]

Originally Posted by 107barney

Yes but once you have the dog, you're the one dealing with all the issues. How do you look up how long they lived with the pedigree?

Your right. Once you have a dog with the problems..then you need to deal with them. I've been there. But I was wrong. With the Pedigree you only can find the birth of Championed dogs and there offspring. But you can research the kennel name. And most likey ppl who Champion there dogs are more likey to do the proper mating and health checks. Because they want there next Champion. I asked a breeder if they ever had a line with liver shunts .They said no. But all that tells me is know body complained or let them know. If they did they should stop breeding that line. But really you never know what your gonna get. But if I spend alot of money. I would rather give it to someone who I would believe to do the right thing. Instead of buying one from someone who just wants to have puppies or make there money back. Buying a health purebred is a lotto..JMO

[107barney]

Originally Posted by ironmike86

Your right. Once you have a dog with the problems..then you need to deal with them. I've been there. But I was wrong. With the Pedigree you only can find the birth of Championed dogs and there offspring. But you can research the kennel name. And most likey ppl who Champion there dogs are more likey to do the proper mating and health checks. Because they want there next Champion. I asked a breeder if they ever had a line with liver shunts .They said no. But all that tells me is know body complained or let them know. If they did they should stop breeding that line. But really you never know what your gonna get. But if I spend alot of money. I would rather give it to someone who I would believe to do the right thing. Instead of buying one from someone who just wants to have puppies or make there money back. Buying a health purebred is a lotto..JMO

Yes I agree. My experience was unfortunate. I felt like I did everything right and asked all the right questions. I couldn't believe it when my puppy had a grand mal seizure at 9 months old. They had to shoot him up with Valium to break it. It's been downhill from there but he is well managed and I think happy. Pretty dog, sweet. It's like that movie twins...all the others were perfect and I got the genetic garbage.

[ironmike86]

Originally Posted by 107barney

Yes I agree. My experience was unfortunate. I felt like I did everything right and asked all the right questions. I couldn't believe it when my puppy had a grand mal seizure at 9 months old. They had to shoot him up with Valium to break it. It's been downhill from there but he is well managed and I think happy. Pretty dog, sweet. It's like that movie twins...all the others were perfect and I got the genetic garbage.

One of my best Yorkies was the sick one. So smart, so loving, it always tough. Guess thats why I hate poor breeding. Once you get attached you can't just get rid of them. You love them but its alot of extra work and sometimes really hard. But even when you try to do it right and you get the bad dog. Everyone should always tell the breeder. Then they should stop that line. If they didn't..there should be a place to report genetic sick dogs. Not like knees but internal stuff. Never a guarantee. But imo the alternative is worst

[gemy]

Originally Posted by docmartin

Firstly thank you all for your kind replies. In the UK we have KC approved breeders, who have bi-yearly inspections and their details scrutinized etc. These people register their dogs with the club and you can expect papers going back at least 5 generations, showing the hereditary lines.

Secondly there are breeders who are not KC registered and thereby in paying no inspection fees etc cannot register their dogs with the club. They tend to be enthusiastic amateurs, who love the dogs they procreate without the published specifies into inherited genes etc. This category still of course produces lovely Yorkies, but as with the likeness to owning a boat, it can become a money chute. Crystal (our present York) was a re-home at 20 weeks of age, she had no accompanying papers, apart from her inoculation certificates. At 27 months now, she has a luxating patella (1), but seems rudely in health and her cutter, who made many appearances at Crufts over 40 years says she has a wonderful show coat and very aristocratic lines.

I have recently been asked $450 and $1200 and to be honest the pups at 6 weeks old each, looked identical? That said, its whats beneath the skin that counts I'm sure and I want a happy healthy dog - in that equation cost is immaterial. The more expensive pup traced back to Osman Sameja (otherwise known as the Ozmillion) line, with many show champions listed. He was 'Crufts' Grand Champion in 1997. The other little girl was much smaller and a real cutie from a doting owner. So my ambivalence is heart over mind and for a seasoned, retired , but very soft-hearted Economist, that's a bit of a challenge!

I am sorry but what is a *cutter* I don't know this term.


I am pretty sure but not positive that England does not have a health database where breeders post their results of health screenings for their dogs. I kind of find that weird given that The Kennel Club revised all their standards a few or more years ago - after the BBC aired the Pedigree Dogs Exposed Expose.


I think therefore you have no option in researching for yourself on Englands Health databases what health screenings and testing have been done for any of the parents of each pup you are looking at.


No breeder KC registered, or AKC or CKC registered can 100% guarantee a healthy pup no matter how much they do strive to produce only healthy pups. The very very best they can do is understand *all* the health problems of Yorkies - judiciously breed to lines that have been health screened and to avoid those lines when mixed together can produce a lot of health issues. \


And that is the kind of breeder I would invest in.

[SirTeddykins]

Originally Posted by gemy

I am sorry but what is a *cutter* I don't know this term.


I am pretty sure but not positive that England does not have a health database where breeders post their results of health screenings for their dogs. I kind of find that weird given that The Kennel Club revised all their standards a few or more years ago - after the BBC aired the Pedigree Dogs Exposed Expose.


I think therefore you have no option in researching for yourself on Englands Health databases what health screenings and testing have been done for any of the parents of each pup you are looking at.


No breeder KC registered, or AKC or CKC registered can 100% guarantee a healthy pup no matter how much they do strive to produce only healthy pups. The very very best they can do is understand *all* the health problems of Yorkies - judiciously breed to lines that have been health screened and to avoid those lines when mixed together can produce a lot of health issues.


And that is the kind of breeder I would invest in.

Ask yourself the question - WHY IS THE BREEDER BREEDING? Is it to the betterment of the breed standard or for a quick $? Registration is a good starting point but it should be confirmation of everything else that went into it..not just a handy pc of paper to justify sale price.


Anyway, good luck docmartin!

[docmartin]

Originally Posted by gemy

I am sorry but what is a *cutter* I don't know this term.


I am pretty sure but not positive that England does not have a health database where breeders post their results of health screenings for their dogs. I kind of find that weird given that The Kennel Club revised all their standards a few or more years ago - after the BBC aired the Pedigree Dogs Exposed Expose.


I think therefore you have no option in researching for yourself on Englands Health databases what health screenings and testing have been done for any of the parents of each pup you are looking at.


No breeder KC registered, or AKC or CKC registered can 100% guarantee a healthy pup no matter how much they do strive to produce only healthy pups. The very very best they can do is understand *all* the health problems of Yorkies - judiciously breed to lines that have been health screened and to avoid those lines when mixed together can produce a lot of health issues.


And that is the kind of breeder I would invest in.

Thank you, you are right there is no register in the UK, for a consideration of genetic history. Consequently I'm going to research quite a bit more than I did with Crystal, who was a 'love at first sight' affair. Through this forum I now realize that may have been too random a value to have selected from?

The term 'cutter' refers to the 'grooming parlour'. Crystal has her hair cut mainly by the scissor and by a very skilled lady who has 50 plus years experience.

[gemy]

Originally Posted by docmartin

Thank you, you are right there is no register in the UK, for a consideration of genetic history. Consequently I'm going to research quite a bit more than I did with Crystal, who was a 'love at first sight' affair. Through this forum I now realize that may have been too random a value to have selected from?

The term 'cutter' refers to the 'grooming parlour'. Crystal has her hair cut mainly by the scissor and by a very skilled lady who has 50 plus years experience.

Thanks Doc so simple once it is explained. I was pretty sure that you weren't referring to a type of sailing boat :-)


Absolutely not too random a value - do your homework first before you meet the puppies! Then let love take your heart away! That is what I did so many times before. So exciting a search for a second puppy. Ooooh those puppy kisses.

[docmartin]

Saw another two female pups today, the breeder was prepared to let them go at 7 weeks, without innoculations, which appears to be the fashion here now with younger ladies especially. I really liked one little girl as well, she was a real character and very quickly curled up with me and fell asleep, refusing to be separated without protest when I left! However without jabs, I'd be very nervous introducing her to Crystal for example.

I'll talk to the UK YTC secretary tomorrow and let you know the outcome.

[ironmike86]

Letting them go is illegal in 48 State in the Usa...Taking them from their Mother at 7 week that is. There a reason. Not good for small breeds. IMO I would skip that breeder

[docmartin]

Originally Posted by ironmike86

Letting them go is illegal in 48 State in the Usa...Taking them from their Mother at 7 week that is. There a reason. Not good for small breeds. IMO I would skip that breeder

Regretfully, having slept on it I agree, such a shame she was a beautiful happy pup. But seven weeks and no jabs, really put me off the breeder. I think because of my two years on here now, I'm far more aware of the problems, to which I was a true dilettante towards when I got Crystal...