Rescue dog vs Breeder

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

Not sure what you mean by a catch 22?

Sure the dog deserves better and could have had better in most cases if not for the greed or irresponsibility of the person who decided to bring him/her into this world and then pass them on to someone who was ill prepared.

Of course it starts before rescue...that is why there IS rescue. I totally love that some states there are no small dogs to be found. A dream of mine in an idealistic world would be no reason for shelters or rescues at all.

Forget my stupid question.

[MarkFromSea]

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

Hmmmmm....... I came to the same conclussion as Linda.

Reread it.....

[MarkFromSea]

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

The only issue with this is that supporting bad breeders and keeping bad breeders in business is killing this loved breed and created more and more dogs with genetic illnesses.

Do you even know what this thread is about?

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by MarkFromSea

Do you even know what this thread is about?

What kind of question is that? Of course she does. She is not the only one talking about genetic issues in breeds here.

[megansmomma]

Originally Posted by MarkFromSea

Do you even know what this thread is about?

My do you feel the thread must stay on topic 100%? From what I have read it stated about a puppy applicant and now we are discussing the reasons dogs end up in rescue.

My opinions on this entire subject it this.....

I don't think that the higher end breeders need to scrutinize as much as the BYBers. I know from being FB friends with some breeders that are not money grubbing idiots that they stay in contact with their former puppy owners. If something were to ever happen they would take that dog back in a second. It's the relationship that is built. The idiot pond scum breeders that are selling puppies to anyone out there are the ones that cause all the problems. But they are not the ones who are asking buyers for information because they do not care.

There are stories on YT all the time about sick dogs and when we say what did the breeder say they can't be found, don't care, changed their names I've always said that people who breed need to be forced to chips all their puppies so they can be tracked down and held accountable for their lack of responsibility for what they created.

[107barney]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

But that is not rescue imho. It is a placement service that a rescue is doing..but people should not bring that into the rescue equation.

It's a placement service but it's still a dog that needs a home regardless. The donation fee is turned back into sick dogs, not to profits, so I see it as supportive of rescue efforts.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by 107barney

It's a placement service but it's still a dog that needs a home regardless. The donation fee is turned back into sick dogs, not to profits, so I see it as supportive of rescue efforts.

I see it as creating a need for rescue. I wish breeders who cannot sell all their pups for whatever reason would reconsider breeding.

Its just my thoughts...I realize not everyone will agree.

There are people who deal with breeders all the time...in my opinion it just makes it easier for the breeder to continue breeding dogs that don't need to be bred. I will help a breeder who is giving up breeding but that is about as far as I will go. I don't want to be part of a problem. Not saying that that rescue is...just how I feel about things, right or wrong does not play into it.

[107barney]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

I see it as creating a need for rescue. I wish breeders who cannot sell all their pups for whatever reason would reconsider breeding.

Its just my thoughts...I realize not everyone will agree.

There are people who deal with breeders all the time...in my opinion it just makes it easier for the breeder to continue breeding dogs that don't need to be bred. I will help a breeder who is giving up breeding but that is about as far as I will go. I don't want to be part of a problem. Not saying that that rescue is...just how I feel about things, right or wrong does not play into it.

I understand your reasoning but these same dogs could be dumped in a shelter and end up being in rescue just the same. Or sold at a discount to losers who later dump them into shelters. The problem isn't just the breeders to be fair but the buyers who want the small females fresh out of the uterus. I see a lot more younger males being turned to the placement service than females. I think buyer philosophy needs to change as much as breeder philosophy does. Plus, these buyers have it wrong....everyone knows it's the yorkie males that are the lovers!

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by MarkFromSea

Reread it.....

Originally Posted by MarkFromSea

Do you even know what this thread is about?

Always to the same tricks....... I'm far smarter then you think and you won't be hitting my buttons today!

[gemy]

Originally Posted by 107barney

I understand your reasoning but these same dogs could be dumped in a shelter and end up being in rescue just the same. Or sold at a discount to losers who later dump them into shelters. The problem isn't just the breeders to be fair but the buyers who want the small females fresh out of the uterus. I see a lot more younger males being turned to the placement service than females. I think buyer philosophy needs to change as much as breeder philosophy does. Plus, these buyers have it wrong....everyone knows it's the yorkie males that are the lovers!

.


Ohh yes the males are da lovers! I thought someone did a study that we posted here on YT that indicated somewhere around 40% of the dogs that end up in shelters were sourced from family friends or neighbours. Ya know all those folks we get on here who don't consider themselves breeders because they are only breeding once or twice cause they want their Betsy to have a litter or two

For the breed I help in rescue the number 1 reason for re-homing is behaviour, quickly followed by we are moving etc etc. I think that some folks think the moving reason is a really legitimate excuse to get rid of their dog. The behaviour is from what I have seen an owner issue - no adequate training and socialization has been done. We do have 2 right now in rescue because a fairly young couple had some really unforeseen life events happen to both of them. Their dogs will be really easy to place as they are both obedience trained and well socialized. I wish that we had a temporary foster option for this couple - but with their combined health issues - that is not a viable option.

[gemy]

Link Animal Shelter Statistics | Statistic Brain




Highlights in Red are mine: There are some stats here that are a tad confusing to me:
1) Does this stat mean that 20% of dogs who end up in a shelter originally came from another shelter?


2) Pet store adoption at 6% - well is pretty low - I thought I had read other sources putting it closer to 10% - but still then where are 94% of the dogs coming from?


3) The whopping 65% of folks that get their pets for free or very low cost Whooah!!!! Can this be a correct stat?


Statistic Verification Source: American Humane Society, Born Free U.S.A., Pet FinderResearch Date: July 13th, 2014Animal shelters house homeless, lost, or abandoned animals, typically cats and dogs. The goal of the modern animal shelter is to provide a safe and caring environment until the animal is either reclaimed by its owner, placed in a new home, or placed with another organization for adoption. Some public animal shelters around the world euthanize animals that are not adopted within a set period of time (usually 1 to 2 weeks); others have a policy of only putting down animals that are in distress due to age or illness. Most private shelters are typically run as no-kill shelters. Most shelters will test the animals to see what type of home would be most suitable for living before they are placed for adoption.<h2>

Share This https://cache.addthiscdn.com/icons/v...s/facebook.gif https://cache.addthiscdn.com/icons/v...bs/twitter.gif https://cache.addthiscdn.com/icons/v1/thumbs/more.gif Animal Shelter Statistics Total number of nationwide animal shelters 5,000Number of companion animals that enter into animal shelters nationwide annually 5 million Average annual number of companion animals that are euthinized at shelters 3.5 million Percent of dogs in animals shelters that are euthanized 60%Percent of cats in animal shelters that are euthanized 70%Percent of cats that are returned to their owners 2%Percent of dogs returned to their owners 15%Total percentage of dogs claimed to be spayed or neutered 78%Total percentage of cats that are claimed to be spayed or neutered 88%Total number of animals that end up in a shelter that are spayed or neutered 10%Percent of dogs brought to shelters that were adopted by a shelter (1)20%Percent of dogs and cats that are adopted from shelters 25%Total number of dogs and cats that are bought at pet stores (2)6%Percentage of people that get their pets free or at low cost (3)65%Cost of taxpayer money annually to round up, house, kill and dispose of homeless animals $2 billion Total percentage of dogs in shelters that are purebred 25%Total percentage of U.S. homes who own at least 1 companion animal 63%Total number of homes that own at least 1 companion animal 70 million

[KazzyK810]

Originally Posted by gemy

Highlights in Red are mine: There are some stats here that are a tad confusing to me:
1) Does this stat mean that 20% of dogs who end up in a shelter originally came from another shelter?

2) Pet store adoption at 6% - well is pretty low - I thought I had read other sources putting it closer to 10% - but still then where are 94% of the dogs coming from?

3) The whopping 65% of folks that get their pets for free or very low cost Whooah!!!! Can this be a correct stat?

1). That's how I interpreted it too. And personally, I think that 20% stat is on the low side.

2). Perhaps due to education? When you know better, you do better.

3). Definitely. Think of ten people you know, outside of YT or dog groups you belong too, and how many spent more then $100 to buy their dog? The majority of people I know got their dog from a family member or neighbor whose dog had puppies, or they bought it from an ad in the paper (print & online) or they bought from craigslist or ebay classifieds. And most of those people don't get why I bought ZoE. Their perception is I was ripped off or have money to burn, because they have a dog and I have a dog, only I paid ten times more than them.

[gemy]

If these stats are anywhere close to being representative a 64% of dogs sourced from free or at a low cost- and marry this to 40% of folks reported who buy from family n friends, another analysis survey from a business that does stats and sell their report to dog businesses at $3K a pop The American Pet Products Association.


Rescues and HSUS and what-ever and whom-ever should be doing a marketing and promotion program to dissuade pet owners who breed their pet dog Missy to Spot....


And I wonder given we seem to have a lot of puppy mills where are those pups reported in the numbers - because if it is from pet stores 6% can not represent the annual number of puppies they are pumping out.


It also seems like purebred dog breeders of repute are hardly a significant part of the problem.


There is also a dis-connect where-in the stats report that 78% of dogs are supposed to be S=N but only 10% enter shelters that are actually S+N that is another huge disconnect!!

[gemy]

Originally Posted by KazzyK810

1). That's how I interpreted it too. And personally, I think that 20% stat is on the low side.

2). Perhaps due to education? When you know better, you do better.

3). Definitely. Think of ten people you know, outside of YT or dog groups you belong too, and how many spent more then $100 to buy their dog? The majority of people I know got their dog from a family member or neighbor whose dog had puppies, or they bought it from an ad in the paper (print & online) or they bought from craigslist or ebay classifieds. And most of those people don't get why I bought ZoE. Their perception is I was ripped off or have money to burn, because they have a dog and I have a dog, only I paid ten times more than them.

That one is hard for me I am probably an outlier. The only folks I know outside of my show and obedience rings are my students and my neighbours.


My dog owning students with the exception of 2 folks all own purebreds - so maybe 80% or so. My neighbours - I am trying to think of one *mutt* on our street - I can not really. And yes I do see mutts around my area, but not my immediate street. Let me see I have a purebred GSD, 2 purebred Australian Shepherds, 2 mini collies the breed name escapes me at the moment (senior moment), one bulldog, one Norwegian Elk hound, one lab, one Golden, one SheepDog, and that is about it for my street other than my purebred crew.


But I do see lots of mutts as I drive around or go to parks.

[KazzyK810]

Originally Posted by gemy

There is also a dis-connect where-in the stats report that 78% of dogs are supposed to be S=N but only 10% enter shelters that are actually S+N that is another huge disconnect!!

I can only speak to what I've experienced where I am at. And here a discrepancy makes sense. If you were to want dog stats for my county on spay and neuter, you'd likely get your info from the county dog license records, and herein lies the problem. It's 3 times the cost to register an unaltered dog, so when people register, they say their dog is altered even when it's not. No one checks. There's no medical proof necessary, it's just how you fill out the form.