Using a spray bottle of water while training aggressive behavior, good or bad method

[kreuer]

I never used the can methods but i did use the compressed air that is very loud. Worked great with Lexi as a puppy. Mainly for barking. After a few uses just seeing it make her stop in her tracks. She also has no fear of thunder, fireworks, or other loud noises.

Forgot to add, i also have a 3 year old in the house with lots of loud toys so that may help with being used to loud sounds at a young age.

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by chachi

Well I dont agree with the article. I think fears of thunder and fireworks can be normal fears for dogs that arent used to loud noises. but maybe put them in another household with noisy children etc they maybe wouldnt even be fearful of those type of noises. It is how they are conditioned is how they react to noises

I don't think so because we have what we call the boomers which I believe is ordance testing simi around us that sounds like thunder but isn't and mine doesn't react to it neither do my moms dogs who react to thunder. I think a lot of it has to do with pressure in the air and stuff as well as previous storms that were very very bad. Callie is not scared of all loud noises it's mostly thunder and I'm just going with my experience and what I read.

[chachi]

Originally Posted by kreuer

I never used the can methods but i did use the compressed air that is very loud. Worked great with Lexi as a puppy. Mainly for barking. After a few uses just seeing it make her stop in her tracks. She also has no fear of thunder, fireworks, or other loud noises.

Forgot to add, i also have a 3 year old in the house with lots of loud toys so that may help with being used to loud sounds at a young age.

It does thats what I am trying to say its all what they are used to

[MarkFromSea]

I love the idea of the spray bottle or a whistle or a pat on the butt. Including verbal commands with the spray bottle or whistle, sounds like a basic associative behavior modification technique. Eventually you can do away with the spray bottle, your voice command will be the spray bottle. Pavlov did not get so famous for being wrong.

Gucci WAS afraid of loud noises when we received him, he isn't any more. I have the uncanny ability to perform a single clap that sounds like a gun shot. It gets his attention with out any fear. He used to dislike Seahawks football games, lots of yelling at an inanimate object, the TV. Now, during a game, he just pokes his head around the corner of the big easy chair that I sit in and looks as if he's asking "What happened? Did Russell make another big play?" His face and body language is really quite funny when he does this. He has adapted to his home and I think most dogs do adapt pretty well to their homes and owners. Now, if I could only train him to bark when the Hawks score a touchdown, that would be golden! LOL He rarely barks, he huffs.

Gucci didn't like kisses over a year ago, he does now. He would not tolerate anyone's face near his, now he enjoys it. He didn't like laying on my chest or stomach as I reclined to watch TV, he does now. He couldn't walk more than 200 yards when we first got him, now on his better days(I still carry him for part of the way when he seems tired) he walks 3 miles at least every other day. Once, 6 miles. Once, he made me jog to keep up for most of 3 miles. He used to avoid water, now he walks in water with no hesitation and jumps into mud. I encourage the mud because he seems to enjoy it.

My point is, given time and effort, you can correct or instill most any behavior. My best dog, a lab, could retrieve a beer or soda out of a closed refrigerator. The lab has a built in "need" to please their owner.

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by chachi

It does thats what I am trying to say its all what they are used to

I don't think you read my last post. But whatever. Mine is not nessisarily used to kids noise but has no problem when with kids playing.

[Silver Lace]

Originally Posted by matese

Hi Sherri, the minipin is afraid of everything, mainly ppl. Cody didn't get sprayed when they had the nose to nose meet & greet and the minipin got mouthy, we were all taken back by the minipin's reactions. This was the 3rd time these 2 dogs are in the same room, the first 2 sessions Cody was showing bad behavior toward the minipin who is ALWAYS focused on the owner, he never looks at Cody, he's not interested in Cody, his eyes are on the owner and the treats he's going to get, it's the big mouth, Mr Cody. Cody is being trained or trying to be trained to not lunge, pull, bark, growl at other dogs. My belief and my trainer is leaning towards my thoughts also, is, that Cody wants to be friends, but doesn't know the correct way of approaching another dog. The minipin is learning the basic commands, sit, stay, come, etc. Cody is not there for that although these are homework projects given to me weekly, which is good. There is only Cody and the MP, while the MP is doing sit, stay etc. the trainer has me was past him, about 20 feet away, the next pass by could be 10 feet away, when I get closer to the MP is when Sir Cody goes into Cujo mode. You need another dog in the area to train your dog to have social skills. So for 2 meetings Sir Cody has showed bad behavior towards the MP If you had some strange person get in your face and say bad things about you, treated you with no respect, then the 3rd time you saw this stranger, and they came up to you in a friendly manner wouldn't you tell them off? whoops lol, forgot, you would lol, but I wouldn't so that is just what the minipin did, twice Cody was rude and disrespectful, 3rd time now Mr. disrespectful wants to be friends? minipin says, get away from me you nasty rude thing. I don't blame the minipin.The trainer thinks I am being to mild with Cody lol, believe me, lol, as much as I adore my lil guy, I can get tough with him if he needs it, I have trained many dogs, but I had them as babies, not at 3 y/o where habits have formed, and I am not a trainer, do not know how to break 3 y/o habits. The trainer also said I have a lot to do with his actions due to the way I hold his leash, the trainer sees tension in me and Cody is feeding off that tension, so she took the leash AND the water bottle, she walked closer to the MP when Cody went into Cujo mode the trainer gave the command word, followed with a spray of water, the look on Cody's face was priceless, but I was not pleased with the spraying, the trainer walked by again, again Cody lunged, again he was sprayed, the third walk by, Cody looked at the trainer & the bottle, did not look at the MP. The MP was all the time focused on his owner, not on Cody. So Cody did not get punished because of the MP, his behavior was being corrected to not lunge. As for the tail wagging when he saw the MP, his body languish was good, the trainer could see this and was the reason she told me to bring him the the MP who was also showing signs of, happy to see you again, why the bad reaction from the MP? Have I made it clearer to you why the spraying? Cody never got punished because of the MP, the spraying was a training technique to not lunge.

Thanks Joan. I guess I just didn't understand what I was reading. Makes sense to me now. I appreciate your taking time to explain it better to me.
Sherri

[matese]

Originally Posted by chachi

You are a good mommy and doing what you need to do by taking him to training and accepting the trainers methods even if you dont like the. I just wanted to remind people a dog with an extreme reaction to noises or water needs to be trained by the owner to be more accepting of noises because noises are part of life its unhealthy for the dog to have fear reactions to noises. I have a really nervous type of dog and she is afraid of fireworks and sometimes thunder which I think can be understandable but if it were to more everyday noises I would be conditioning her to get used to the noises not avoiding things that bring noise like pennies in a can

Thank you chachi, just like you protect your child, I protect my Cody, his behavior can feel like a threat to another dog, he could be seriously injured even killed. This is for his protection, my peace of mind, and no embarrassment. No one likes a child that screams and has temper tantrums in public places, then hear ppl say why don't those parents discipline that child. That's how I feel Cody is, ppl don't know he's adopted and came to me with this behavior. Cody is not afraid of thunder, thank god, all my past babies were. I had extensive roof work done this summer, they used nail guns, Cody freaked out barking, jumping in the air trying to get on the roof where the noise was coming from lol, oh, I didn't mention Cody is mixed, he's 1/2 kangaroo. Then I some deck repairs done right after the roof, they used nail guns also, again, Cody went nuts, the man laid the gun down to refill it and Cody attacked it, KILL THE NAIL GUN, so he's not afraid of loud noises, if I used penny's in a can he would want to attack the can lol, water spray worked and was quiet on my ears. I know he will not get sprayed on next session, as long as that bottle is in his view lol.

[yorkietalkjilly]

I don't usually agree with using training aversizes such as squirting water or loud pennies in a can in training as those tactics can cause trouble for a fearful/nervous/anxious dog but I often just use physical touch or standing down the dog as the mother or alpha dog uses on a misbehaving pack member, which will usually stop a dog from whatever misbehavior they are engaged in.

How? By getting their focus off the thing they are barking at or alerting on and back onto you and recognizing that you are the one dispensing firm but gentle, natural discipline. I want my dog to know I'm the one disciplining him - not some spray bottle or electronic burst of zapping coming from some unknown source. That can crate a sense of anxiety in a dog - thinking he could get that squirt or zap anytime.

And a dog doesn't necessarily always associate the sensation with the misbehavior that preceded it - maybe he associates the squirt or zap with something else - such as being outside or seeing other dogs coming near him and begin to fear those things. He needs to know that while mommie loves him more than anything, she also stops any behavior she disagrees with herself. And you know what? Dogs loves someone else to be in charge of them!

Touch the dog suddenly on its side/flank with your extended three fingers to distract it. Or you can place your hand in claw-like fashion over the back of the neck and hold, all the while putting one foot in front of the dog and holding him there as you say "Quiet", "Stop", "No", or "Enough", "Uh oh"(I usually reserve the "uh oh' phrase for training situations and the "No" for a dog that's been trained to know the meaning of the word) and staying there until the dog stops the wild barking or improper behavior and the very instant he does, hands off and back away - all the while keeping direct eye contact on the dog and stand there until the dog turns away, sits/lies down and gives up on its behavior.

The moment the dog gives it up, you look away but bear in mind and be prepared, the dog may just resume the previous bad behavior and if so, you can instantly use this as another teachable moment - repeat one of the two above actions right then and each time the dog re-offends for a few sessions and then remove the dog from the area of offense as dogs' attention spans for training are short.

Short, frequent sessions of this training will soon tell the dog that any behavior it engages in that you disagree with, such as wild barking or getting wildly excited over anything that's going on in the area or room that causes him to go ballistic will ALWAYS bring your instant, personal, firm but gentle discipline and you will stand there over him until he gives it up. He'll come to know that you are far more determined than he is and get the message.

You must not ever frighten, scare or hurt him during discipline or you will lose him to wanting and trusting you as his leader. All you need to do is merely just firmly stop his bad behavior with your physical presence, physical touch, no-nonsense manner and he will in time learn that you always step in and stop him and he will eventually begin to police himself and not start the behavior or catch himself before he escalates. In time, whatever word you use as you distract him, he will begin to associate that word alone with stopping the behavior and you won't need to physically stop him anymore - just make stern eye contact and get his attention using your word.

[matese]

Originally Posted by Silver Lace

Thanks Joan. I guess I just didn't understand what I was reading. Makes sense to me now. I appreciate your taking time to explain it better to me.
Sherri

Not a problem Sherri one thing is, I do not want to cause confusion on a thread.

[MarkFromSea]

Originally Posted by chachi

It isno louder than a child playing with a loud toy a motorcycle going by outside or a dishwasher running, the tv being up loud or music loud and yes dogs should be conditioned to accept these kind of noises

I agree 100%.
If your dog is afraid of a vacuum cleaner, you're not cleaning enough if you have carpets.

Make some loud noises fun for the dog, it's all how it's presented. If they know the source, or not, and that the master is joyful and happy during the noise, the dog can be trained to enjoy it too.

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by MarkFromSea

I agree 100%.
If your dog is afraid of a vacuum cleaner, you're not cleaning enough if you have carpets.

Make some loud noises fun for the dog, it's all how it's presented. If they know the source, or not, and that the master is joyful and happy during the noise, the dog can be trained to enjoy it too.

I'm curious what kind of cans and how many pennies y'all are using? When we are talking about adult dogs it's much harder and in a lot of cases just not possible. Sometimes it can even be related to anxiety and in those cases training isn't going to help.

[Lovetodream88]

In my case the only loud noise it seemed to effect her with was thunder but that could be because of pressure changes but I am mostly just sharing about the article I read in one of my dogs magazines.

[Teresa Ford]

As a trainer I use a spray bottle. BUT, I do not approve of what that trainer did. I would never bait a dog to fight.

[chachi]

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

In my case the only loud noise it seemed o effect her with was thunder but that could be because of pressure changes but I am mostly just sharing about the article I read in one of my dogs magazines.

Jewels is mostly afraid of fireworks and in my household I dont think I could train her not to but I always wonder if she were in another household with more hustle and bustle would she be fearful of them. I have another dog that is unaffected by them so I think personality plays a part too. But I still wouldnt allow her to be fearful of any other type of noises I just know fireworks are her limit. She used to get a little fearful of thunder but doesnt do that anymore

[MarkFromSea]

Originally Posted by matese

Does anyone here have experience with water spraying in behavior training, does it work, is it a good method, will this make Cody fearful of water.

Back to the original question. No, this will not make him fearful of water. The water spray is merely an extension of your hand, an unknown extension from your dog's point of view. It should be more of an attention getter during a voice command rather than a "punishment", it doesn't hurt physically. The focus should lean towards the voice, the association should be the voice so the spray bottle doesn't need to be carried eventually.

Gucci has very good hearing, it is selective though.