Using a spray bottle of water while training aggressive behavior, good or bad method

[chachi]

Originally Posted by mrsedwardslpn

Get a whistle. .. worked for me

A whistle is good because you can have it around your neck handy sometimes the pennies in a can arent handy. Whistles can also get on other people in the house nerves though too

[matese]

Originally Posted by Silver Lace

Hi Joan,
After reading the start of your post I have to say that I am totally confused. Ok,you said you did not see the face of Cody as he neared the minipin but he was wagging his tail and not pulling or lunging and that they were nose to nose. Sounds fine to me so far except maybe the way he was wagging his tail. Could have been friendly or not but I don't know that part. What I don't understand is the fact that the minipin went into attack mode on Cody and Cody was punished and forced to keep going back to the minipin over and over and had his face sprayed with water like he was the villain here. It seems to me the one who was wrong was the minipin and if Cody started to lunge after him it was because of the aggression of the minipin. Doesn't sound right to me but that is just the way I see it. Show me what I don't understand will you? Sorry this is all happening to you guys. Sherri

Hi Sherri, the minipin is afraid of everything, mainly ppl. Cody didn't get sprayed when they had the nose to nose meet & greet and the minipin got mouthy, we were all taken back by the minipin's reactions. This was the 3rd time these 2 dogs are in the same room, the first 2 sessions Cody was showing bad behavior toward the minipin who is ALWAYS focused on the owner, he never looks at Cody, he's not interested in Cody, his eyes are on the owner and the treats he's going to get, it's the big mouth, Mr Cody. Cody is being trained or trying to be trained to not lunge, pull, bark, growl at other dogs. My belief and my trainer is leaning towards my thoughts also, is, that Cody wants to be friends, but doesn't know the correct way of approaching another dog. The minipin is learning the basic commands, sit, stay, come, etc. Cody is not there for that although these are homework projects given to me weekly, which is good. There is only Cody and the MP, while the MP is doing sit, stay etc. the trainer has me was past him, about 20 feet away, the next pass by could be 10 feet away, when I get closer to the MP is when Sir Cody goes into Cujo mode. You need another dog in the area to train your dog to have social skills. So for 2 meetings Sir Cody has showed bad behavior towards the MP If you had some strange person get in your face and say bad things about you, treated you with no respect, then the 3rd time you saw this stranger, and they came up to you in a friendly manner wouldn't you tell them off? whoops lol, forgot, you would lol, but I wouldn't so that is just what the minipin did, twice Cody was rude and disrespectful, 3rd time now Mr. disrespectful wants to be friends? minipin says, get away from me you nasty rude thing. I don't blame the minipin.The trainer thinks I am being to mild with Cody lol, believe me, lol, as much as I adore my lil guy, I can get tough with him if he needs it, I have trained many dogs, but I had them as babies, not at 3 y/o where habits have formed, and I am not a trainer, do not know how to break 3 y/o habits. The trainer also said I have a lot to do with his actions due to the way I hold his leash, the trainer sees tension in me and Cody is feeding off that tension, so she took the leash AND the water bottle, she walked closer to the MP when Cody went into Cujo mode the trainer gave the command word, followed with a spray of water, the look on Cody's face was priceless, but I was not pleased with the spraying, the trainer walked by again, again Cody lunged, again he was sprayed, the third walk by, Cody looked at the trainer & the bottle, did not look at the MP. The MP was all the time focused on his owner, not on Cody. So Cody did not get punished because of the MP, his behavior was being corrected to not lunge. As for the tail wagging when he saw the MP, his body languish was good, the trainer could see this and was the reason she told me to bring him the the MP who was also showing signs of, happy to see you again, why the bad reaction from the MP? Have I made it clearer to you why the spraying? Cody never got punished because of the MP, the spraying was a training technique to not lunge.

[chachi]

The bottom line is we call them our babies but they are really dogs and if they cant handle a squirt from a squirt bottle or a little noise from pennies in a can then you arent treating them like dogs your treating them like babies. Your trainer already know this

[matese]

Originally Posted by shelbysmom

We use the spray bottle but it is a problem since it's hard to keep handy. I am on the lookout for one of those little kid water pistols. More handy plus I am hoping she will learn to stop barking even when it's empty. I also use words like "no barking" when I spray her and "stop." When she stops she comes to me for a piece of kibble. Stop means treat to her.


You may be able to use the same method for other training issues. It kills me how Yorkie's have selective memory They learn some things so easily and others, not so much.

If he gets trained with a spray bottle I will stay with that, they have small ones, I know I won't have to use it, I saw by the 3rd pass by he looked at the trainer and the bottle, never look at the minipin, so I know if he sees that bottle this Wed. he is not going to lunge. I don't want to have to retrain with something else, but the water pistol is a good idea. At home I have a fly swatter lol, for some reason all my babies were scared of that, months ago he was crying and crying to get my attention while I was on the phone on a business call, I got the fly swatter, just showed it to him, he was afraid of it, jumped on the sofa and was quiet. So now when he needs to chill out, the magic fly swatter comes out lol. Thank you for your suggestion. Oh and the command word is just first, it he doesn't stop the command word is used again followed with a spray.

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

I don't know how I feel about the spray bottle...on one hand, I don't see it as all that terribly harmful...on the other hand, it *does* bother me if it causes actual fear. I couldn't see spraying my kiddos bc I know I'd feel bad doing it.

BUT if I was in a situation like you were, I may feel differently and may need a different approach like you're taking, ya know? So I can't really say what I'd do. One thing I might try instead/first is using noise to interrupt the behavior...ie, using a metal can full of coins/nails and shaking it really hard near the pup when trying to interrupt a behavior. The problem w/ your situation, though, is that you're in an actual class and this noisy can might inappropriately scare other dogs...but I don't know...maybe something to discuss w/ your trainer and/or try at home?

lol, my trainer is a water sprayer, like you say, shaking a can of pennies will distract the other dog, sometimes they bring in a border collie to work with us. The BC is always focused on the trainer, that noise could break that focus. I tried the pennies in the can years ago with a barker, at 11PM I would take my lil pack of 3 curbside for their last pee-pee of the night, I has one barker, I didn't want her waking up the neighborhood so I did the can shaking, which now cause her to bark at the can lol, so that was out. I am not happy about the spraying, but I do know if my lil man sees that bottle this week, he's gonna be a good boy lol. Thanks Ann for your suggestion.

Originally Posted by Cha Cha

I commend you for giving Cody a loving home. And I think in time as he settles in he'll feel more secure too. I know every trainer has different methods. Some I like, some I don't. You'll figure out what you can use and what you need to leave behind, but at least you're there, trying and that is great for him. I do allow my dogs to walk in front of me too. But if I see danger, like another dog, or person walking, or bicycle, etc., I ask them to check up. By that, I mean that I ask them to come back and walk by me until the situation passes. If it's all clear, I do give them the lead though. I didn't want you to think I am totally against a dog walking in front, rather if there is a situation, your dog learns to retreat rather than lunge and pull.

Yeah that kinda threw me off, was thinking how can a dog do his business if kept at ones side. No Cody is held to my side when I he is leashed walked in town or if I am visiting friends that have side walks. Last week I was out of town, at 9PM I took him out for a walk, the sidewalks are narrow, someone was coming towards me with a baby stroller, so I stepped off the curb to let them by, it was a young Dad with a 2 & 4 y/o in the stroller, the youngsters were making a fuss when they saw Cody, they wanted to pet him, Cody LOVES children so I asked the dad was it ok his kids gave him a pat, the kids & Cody enjoyed the meet. I thanked the dad for letting Cody say hello to the children, he doesn't get to see many kids anymore, and the dad thanked me for letting his girls pet the dog, we all came away with with smiles on our faces. On sidewalk walks I do keep him at my side. Thanks for the clear up.

[matese]

Originally Posted by mrsedwardslpn

Get a whistle. .. worked for me

Yes I agree, whistle is great, but, I am in a training class,my pup is being trained with command words of the trainer, some of the words used I am not in agreement with I would use other words, but I cannot ask the trainer to change her training technique. Unfortunately I will have to keep with the word commands the trainer uses, and her technique. I do not want to re-train using other word commands. I may just get a whistle for another training issue which will not be addressed in these sessions. Thanks for the tip. And to think I had my bike whistle for years, threw it out last year lol, that's why I HATE throwing things out, when ever I do, down the road a need for it comes in lol. Thanks again

[matese]

Originally Posted by chachi

The bottom line is we call them our babies but they are really dogs and if they cant handle a squirt from a squirt bottle or a little noise from pennies in a can then you arent treating them like dogs your treating them like babies. Your trainer already know this

Cody is my baby, but he is also a dog that has unsafe issues. He may be my baby but he has to be obedient, he has to listen and obey. I may not be thrilled about the spray but I saw after 2 squirts there was not a 3rd spray. Cody is very smart and learns IMO quickly for a terrier. He will remember "the bottle". His behavior is a safety issue, also an embarrassment for me, I don't like to think when he's behaving in Cujo mode ppl will think I accept this type of behavior, what ever it takes I need to try to correct this. I know he will not get sprayed this week, but the bottle must be in his view. Thanks chachi, a good reminder for others that may read this thread.

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by chachi

I dont care what study has been done and pennies in a can has been an effective training tool for many dogs. It may cause fear in dogs that are already fearful I dont know. What I do know is I have 2 dogs one that fears nothing and one that fears loud noises neither was affected by the pennies in a can. The one that is fearful of noises was already fearful of noises but the pennies in a can gets her attention and gets her to quit barking. It doesnt cause her to cower and hide which would be signs of fear

Well in my personal experience Callie was not fearful of loud noises as a puppy before we tried the can of pennies after that is when she started having those problems so I am going by my personal experience and what I have read that says it can cause fear of loud noises.

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by mrsedwardslpn

Get a whistle. .. worked for me

Just like a can of pennies this could also cause them to fear loud noises.

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by chachi

The bottom line is we call them our babies but they are really dogs and if they cant handle a squirt from a squirt bottle or a little noise from pennies in a can then you arent treating them like dogs your treating them like babies. Your trainer already know this

Seriously? My dog has a fear of loud noises due to shaking a can of pennies when she was a puppy so apparently im treating her wrong...... Mmhmm whatever that's not true.

[chachi]

Originally Posted by matese

Cody is my baby, but he is also a dog that has unsafe issues. He may be my baby but he has to be obedient, he has to listen and obey. I may not be thrilled about the spray but I saw after 2 squirts there was not a 3rd spray. Cody is very smart and learns IMO quickly for a terrier. He will remember "the bottle". His behavior is a safety issue, also an embarrassment for me, I don't like to think when he's behaving in Cujo mode ppl will think I accept this type of behavior, what ever it takes I need to try to correct this. I know he will not get sprayed this week, but the bottle must be in his view. Thanks chachi, a good reminder for others that may read this thread.

You are a good mommy and doing what you need to do by taking him to training and accepting the trainers methods even if you dont like the. I just wanted to remind people a dog with an extreme reaction to noises or water needs to be trained by the owner to be more accepting of noises because noises are part of life its unhealthy for the dog to have fear reactions to noises. I have a really nervous type of dog and she is afraid of fireworks and sometimes thunder which I think can be understandable but if it were to more everyday noises I would be conditioning her to get used to the noises not avoiding things that bring noise like pennies in a can

[mrsedwardslpn]

Originally Posted by chachi

A whistle is good because you can have it around your neck handy sometimes the pennies in a can arent handy. Whistles can also get on other people in the house nerves though too

True

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by chachi

You are a good mommy and doing what you need to do by taking him to training and accepting the trainers methods even if you dont like the. I just wanted to remind people a dog with an extreme reaction to noises or water needs to be trained by the owner to be more accepting of noises because noises are part of life its unhealthy for the dog to have fear reactions to noises. I have a really nervous type of dog and she is afraid of fireworks and sometimes thunder which I think can be understandable but if it were to more everyday noises I would be conditioning her to get used to the noises not avoiding things that bring noise like pennies in a can

Pennies shaking in a can is not a normal noise and is very loud.

[chachi]

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

Pennies shaking in a can is not a normal noise and is very loud.

It isno louder than a child playing with a loud toy a motorcycle going by outside or a dishwasher running, the tv being up loud or music loud and yes dogs should be conditioned to accept these kind of noises

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by chachi

It isno louder than a child playing with a loud toy a motorcycle going by outside or a dishwasher running, the tv being up loud or music loud and yes dogs should be conditioned to accept these kind of noises

In my opinion it is maybe u only used a few pennies and I used more or we each used different cans. When we did it, it was very loud. She is also not afraid of those kind of noises. It's mostly just thunder and the article said that training using pennies in a can could cause them to be afraid of loud noises such as thunder.

[chachi]

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

In my opinion it is maybe u only used a few pennies and I used more or we each used different cans. When we did it, it was very loud. She is also not afraid of those kind of noises. It's mostly just thunder and the article said that training using pennies in a can could cause them to be afraid of loud noises such as thunder.

Well I dont agree with the article. I think fears of thunder and fireworks can be normal fears for dogs that arent used to loud noises. but maybe put them in another household with noisy children etc they maybe wouldnt even be fearful of those type of noises. It is how they are conditioned is how they react to noises