Everyone Please Read: Going Forward, We Must Post With More Respect Toward Others

[gemy]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

I hear you in terms of having strong views and sticking to them, however, what we've been seeing here are views being shoved very rudely at times down people's throats -- and that's not helping anyone at all. It's one thing to have strong views and be direct -- there is NOTHING wrong with that. It's another thing to have strong views and be rude and badgering at the same time. That's what needs to stop on that front. I think that's what the posters with a less direct posting style are looking for...at least that's what we've heard and seen.

Now, on the flip side of things...what I'm hearing form the more direct posters is "please don't preach to me about my posting style". What the more direct posters are asking is that if one of their posts is seen as inappropriate, to please *just* report it, rather than telling another person how to post or that their post is rude. We're hearing that loud and clear. I think it's a fair request. That said, it's well within the rules to state an opinion such as "I think this thread is bordering on badgering this member and I'd like to see that tone change" -- a member is allowed to state that sort of opinion, whether we like it or not. But the request has been heard, very clearly, that people who find things offensive to please use the report icon.

I want to comment on another aspect of this subject that we've heard much about behind the scenes and that is when members are VERY clearly juuuuust riding the cusp of our rules here -- where they're just on the edge...not quite breaking rules, but very clearly getting as close as they intentionally can. We know when you're doing it, and you know when you're doing it. Going forward, if a member is clearly riding that edge -- the post will just be deleted, period, gone....and any/all educational info you shared will have to be rewritten. And if that sort of cusp-riding behavior accumulates - suspensions or bans will follow.

As for "why this thread" instead of private PMs - it's because this is a community problem, and the community deserves to know it's being addressed. And the members of the community deserve to have a voice about what's been happening and what they've been seeing...no matter where you land on the issues. When there is an outcry for action, the community needs to know we've heard it and are addressing it. It's a public matter, therefore, we want to be transparent.

RE the bolded item. IMO if someone posts a comment like that or similar to that, then we tend to get the back and forth - No I wasn't badgering or hectoring, but just stating my very strong opinion. I do strongly feel just hit the *report* post and then let the mods take care of it - one way or the other.

On another note; pointing out something obvious - that the measure of the strength or passion of your belief is not directly proportional to the strength of your voice sic ... here written word. Folks who post what some may refer to with a gentle style or namby pamby way, in no way means that their views are not deeply held.

We will never completely know any-ones' full story, no matter if they are a long time poster/member, or this is their first post. We don't know their backgrounds, experience levels (although we do infer that from the posters question to this forum)...we are even correct most of the time but not all of the time.

In terms of Breeder THreads I have copied what is the stickey placed in that forum here: As these threads often devolve especially with a first time breeder.
Hi everyone! I just wanted to post a reminder about why this section exists (or tell you for those that do not understand). It is for breeders (experienced and not) to share their experiences, learn from each other, help new members, and to have a place to talk about the lessons, joys, pain, heartache, and excitement of breeding yorkies! It is also for discussion on breeders and if you are not a breeder, you can also post questions for breeders here.

Please be respectful. This is a place for questions and experiences and if you do not like the thread or the topic that has been asked/started do not respond. It is quite that simple.

If you make a post that is off-topic it WILL be deleted. If you make a reply that is rude or a personal attack, you will be suspended and/or banned. The rules of Yorkietalk are just the same here, please remember them and if you have not reviewed them in awhile here is the link

What-ever your personal belief is about the breeding of Yorkies, and what challenges the breed has, the deed is often done. If you keep in mind the above guidelines when speaking to a newbie breeder maybe the newbies will stick around long enough to learn something that could really aid in their gals pregnancy delivery etc.

[chachi]

I think this thread is doing alot to help out. Usually we are having this discussion on someones thread and then the thread gets lost and nothings resolved. I am reading both sides and although we are probably not coming to an aggreement at least both sides are hearing each other and we are considering. Thank you Ann for jumping in here and giving clarification and acknowledging that you are hearing what both sides are really wanting from the other side. And thank you for leaving this thread open

[lynzy420]

Gosh, I swore I would stop posting here...move on but I thought of something else-
I guess what I probably dislike the most is when one assumes they are without ANY blame and additionally then assumes they are "modly" and then go on to post as though they are a mod, when infact - they are not....INSTEAD OF REPORTING THE POST/THREAD.

Also directly to Gemy you often refer to me as a nonbreeder, I've spoke many times on this here, I was a breeder, but like you I was NOT a Yorkie Breeder, I have experience, I have knowledge, I have education that I learned in the whelping box and here on YT I think I qualify to comment, ask etc., in that section right along side the Reputable and BYB breeders that currently do.

I also don't think the rules were meant to prevent any member from commenting in that section, if they are, then perhaps it should be locked down and only accessed via permissions????

I really wish this thread would get locked now with a final word from the MOD?????

[AZME]

I know I'm a newbie but have been a moderator on a very large and active board and poster on many different boards. In my experience the written word is always open to interpretation and so one constantly has to be conscience of perception and interpretation if you want your message to be really 'heard'. The other thing that I've learned is that it doesn't matter if you are right, if you shove something down someone's throat it just doesn't taste so good and just won't be swallowed. And last, because we are 'invisible' to one another we may not 'see' that someone is having an horrendous day and a little kindness may truly go a long way. This is really a terrific and informative place. Dialogue is such a wonderful thing but irresponsible dialogue makes people/posters retreat and that is a loss of their voice and their experience.

[TxVicki]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

I want to comment on another aspect of this subject that we've heard much about behind the scenes and that is when members are VERY clearly juuuuust riding the cusp of our rules here -- where they're just on the edge...not quite breaking rules, but very clearly getting as close as they intentionally can. We know when you're doing it, and you know when you're doing it. Going forward, if a member is clearly riding that edge -- the post will just be deleted, period, gone....and any/all educational info you shared will have to be rewritten. And if that sort of cusp-riding behavior accumulates - suspensions or bans will follow.

As for "why this thread" instead of private PMs - it's because this is a community problem, and the community deserves to know it's being addressed. And the members of the community deserve to have a voice about what's been happening and what they've been seeing...no matter where you land on the issues. When there is an outcry for action, the community needs to know we've heard it and are addressing it. It's a public matter, therefore, we want to be transparent.

:thum bup:

[gemy]

Originally Posted by lynzy420

Gosh, I swore I would stop posting here...move on but I thought of something else-
I guess what I probably dislike the most is when one assumes they are without ANY blame and additionally then assumes they are "modly" and then go on to post as though they are a mod, when infact - they are not....INSTEAD OF REPORTING THE POST/THREAD.

Also directly to Gemy you often refer to me as a nonbreeder, I've spoke many times on this here, I was a breeder, but like you I was NOT a Yorkie Breeder, I have experience, I have knowledge, I have education that I learned in the whelping box and here on YT I think I qualify to comment, ask etc., in that section right along side the Reputable and BYB breeders that currently do.

I also don't think the rules were meant to prevent any member from commenting in that section, if they are, then perhaps it should be locked down and only accessed via permissions????

I really wish this thread would get locked now with a final word from the MOD?????

Sorry Lynzy I promise to remember that you were a breeder. There was truly no insult intended. If I did insult you I apologize.

[Lovetodream88]

I think one large thing that bothers me is when people say you shouldn't post in the breeding section unless your a breeder. It's probably in my opinion pretty nasty thing to say because it's like saying you can't have any knowledge of breeding unless you have done it and I think that's wrong. I think someone can still have a lot of knowledge about breeding with out doing it. Obviously a breeder still has more knowledge but it dosent mean a non breeder dosent and that there information should not be shared. There are also a lot of people who go to the breeding section to ask about breeders and again I feel some of us non breeders who have been there and bought from the people with these red flags and know why there bad and why to not buy from them should share. People who buy from bad breeders or who are looking at buying from bad breeders should know what it's like from the prespective of a person who bought from a bad breeder and all the issues they have had because of it. I also think whether the dog has been bred or not it's never to late to educate because there will always be another time and there will be people who read it and go oh they had no problem breeding there dog I'm going to do the same with mine unless maybe some other information is posted to show the other readers it wasn't the best thing and why but it is about how you word it. I would like for a moderator or Admin to clarify maybe in the breeding section who can post there. Maybe even letting others know it's not ok to tell someone you should not post in this section because you are not a breeder. In my opinion that's like saying you should not post in sick and injured because you are not a vet. I also would like to see maybe a rule about not telling people they ran someone off I think it is hurtful, mean, most of the time not true, and just causes people to get defensive and causes issues. A lot of the time when a member does not come back after the first posts it is because they couldnt see the post after they posted, they expect an immediate answer, they forget about it, they don't understand message boards, or they just can't find it.

[chachi]

I wanted to comment on the breeders forum because it is so often pointed out when someone is a nonbreeder posting on their. I dont have experience with yorkies but I do with kittens and I have experience with fading kittens. Sometimes breeders arent around and a nonbreeder may be able to give a new breeder insight even if they dont have any experience but have read the breeders forum alot and know what a breeder would do in a circumstance. Sometimes theirs questions about a registry and a non breeder can answer. I quess what I am trying to say is just because someone is not a yorkie breeder dont assume to know what their experience is or if they are qualified to post their

[gemy]

Originally Posted by AZME

I know I'm a newbie but have been a moderator on a very large and active board and poster on many different boards. In my experience the written word is always open to interpretation and so one constantly has to be conscience of perception and interpretation if you want your message to be really 'heard'. The other thing that I've learned is that it doesn't matter if you are right, if you shove something down someone's throat it just doesn't taste so good and just won't be swallowed. And last, because we are 'invisible' to one another we may not 'see' that someone is having an horrendous day and a little kindness may truly go a long way. This is really a terrific and informative place. Dialogue is such a wonderful thing but irresponsible dialogue makes people/posters retreat and that is a loss of their voice and their experience.

agree

[gemy]

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

I think one large thing that bothers me is when people say you shouldn't post in the breeding section unless your a breeder. It's probably in my opinion pretty nasty thing to say because it's like saying you can't have any knowledge of breeding unless you have done it and I think that's wrong. I think someone can still have a lot of knowledge about breeding with out doing it. Obviously a breeder still has more knowledge but it dosent mean a non breeder dosent and that there information should not be shared. There are also a lot of people who go to the breeding section to ask about breeders and again I feel some of us non breeders who have been there and bought from the people with these red flags and know why there bad and why to not buy from them should share. People who buy from bad breeders or who are looking at buying from bad breeders should know what it's like from the prespective of a person who bought from a bad breeder and all the issues they have had because of it. I also think whether the dog has been bred or not it's never to late to educate because there will always be another time and there will be people who read it and go oh they had no problem breeding there dog I'm going to do the same with mine unless maybe some other information is posted to show the other readers it wasn't the best thing and why but it is about how you word it. I would like for a moderator or Admin to clarify maybe in the breeding section who can post there. Maybe even letting others know it's not ok to tell someone you should not post in this section because you are not a breeder. In my opinion that's like saying you should not post in sick and injured because you are not a vet. I also would like to see maybe a rule about not telling people they ran someone off I think it is hurtful, mean, most of the time not true, and just causes people to get defensive and causes issues. A lot of the time when a member does not come back after the first posts it is because they couldnt see the post after they posted, they expect an immediate answer, they forget about it, they don't understand message boards, or they just can't find it.

I agree that sometimes the breeder section is used to post reviews about breeders. Of course that is not a breeding thread per say, but a review about a breeder.

No-one is saying here on this thread that a non-breeder can't post on a breeding thread. I merely copied and pasted the stickie on why the "breeders forum" was created.

I believe that everyone is welcomed to post there. But do keep in mind the purpose of that forum, is to share experiences, the joys and tribulations of breeding. Whether you should have bred this gal or not, is a moot point if indeed she has been bred. You might, and I might disagree with that breeding, and trust me oftentimes I do. But you can answer (if you know the answer) the question asked and then raise concerns if you so desire to.

When a person posts with joy their knowledge of their gal is pregnant, why not acknowledge that joy? And yes we all know the pitfalls of breeding. But is it not simple human kindness to say, wow I see that you are excited about this.... Such a big road you are on. Have you considered x/y or z?

Just my two cents on this

[Wylie's Mom]

I had a request to clarify whether or not non-breeders are allowed to post in the Breeder section and the answer is, yes, they are allowed. If there is confusion over this, then we need to alter the rules in that section to read more clearly.

[bjh]

Originally Posted by gemy

I agree that sometimes the breeder section is used to post reviews about breeders. Of course that is not a breeding thread per say, but a review about a breeder.

No-one is saying here on this thread that a non-breeder can't post on a breeding thread. I merely copied and pasted the stickie on why the "breeders forum" was created.

I believe that everyone is welcomed to post there. But do keep in mind the purpose of that forum, is to share experiences, the joys and tribulations of breeding. Whether you should have bred this gal or not, is a moot point if indeed she has been bred. You might, and I might disagree with that breeding, and trust me oftentimes I do. But you can answer (if you know the answer) the question asked and then raise concerns if you so desire to.

When a person posts with joy their knowledge of their gal is pregnant, why not acknowledge that joy? And yes we all know the pitfalls of breeding. But is it not simple human kindness to say, wow I see that you are excited about this.... Such a big road you are on. Have you considered x/y or z?

Just my two cents on this

Well said.

[dawn27]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

Hi all -

Firstly, I just want to say what a wonderful community YT is, and that I hope this thread can help us all think about improving our presence here during interactions…even if it just means tweaking our posting styles a bit.

I’ll get right to the point: we’ve been receiving a huge amount of communications from members who are concerned/venting about some of the harshness and aggression they’re seeing/perceiving in the community. This harshness pertains to both new and old members - on both the receiving and giving end of things. We’re hearing there is a pervasive feeling that members are being driven away via disrespectful, snarky, disdainful, extremely aggressive, and downright mean posting styles. This needs to stop.

We cannot be a community or call ourselves a community if we don’t come together sometimes, as a collective, and agree to do better. Well, it’s time to come together and agree to do better...to be more aware of giving (yes, GIVING) respect, to be more kind, to be more compassionate and supportive.

No one is asking anyone to be a Pollyanna or to not be themselves. We’re merely asking that, in your interactions, you strive harder and TRULY commit to what is mentioned in the previous paragraph. It’s not that hard -- and if it IS hard for you, then perhaps this isn’t the right board for you and perhaps it’s time to move on from YT to find an environment that does fit.

We are not asking much. If you do think we’re asking too much, then 1) this is not the community for you 2) you’re being self-centered and 3) you need to develop your insight into human beings, other than yourself. WE ARE NOT ASKING MUCH.

It is okay to speak your mind here at YT. However, it is not okay to simply justify any means you deem fit to meet your end goal. We believe in being STRONG advocates for dogs/animals - but not, however, at the expense of the human being behind that dependent and innocent dog. Please do not assume or think that it’s okay to behave any way you please merely because it’s in the interest of an animal. We all need to be decent here and post w/ a modicum of respect…EVEN when and especially when dealing with someone who is doing everything we are personally opposed to. Your opposition to another human being’s behavior does *not* mean you are right, nor is it a fact that they are universally and categorically wrong….it merely means you have opposition. Please learn to deal with it because it’s not going away.

If we see excessively negative and/or badgering posting styles, we will be warning people or suspending people and/or permanently banning members’ accounts.

This is an open discussion in terms of feedback, thoughts, concerns….so please feel free to share. This post is not aimed at anyone, so please do not make assumptions. It was driven by the sheer amount of concerned members who expressed themselves via PMs and on the forum itself. Thank you for reading!

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

I hear you in terms of having strong views and sticking to them, however, what we've been seeing here are views being shoved very rudely at times down people's throats -- and that's not helping anyone at all. It's one thing to have strong views and be direct -- there is NOTHING wrong with that. It's another thing to have strong views and be rude and badgering at the same time. That's what needs to stop on that front. I think that's what the posters with a less direct posting style are looking for...at least that's what we've heard and seen.

Now, on the flip side of things...what I'm hearing form the more direct posters is "please don't preach to me about my posting style". What the more direct posters are asking is that if one of their posts is seen as inappropriate, to please *just* report it, rather than telling another person how to post or that their post is rude. We're hearing that loud and clear. I think it's a fair request. That said, it's well within the rules to state an opinion such as "I think this thread is bordering on badgering this member and I'd like to see that tone change" -- a member is allowed to state that sort of opinion, whether we like it or not. But the request has been heard, very clearly, that people who find things offensive to please use the report icon.

I want to comment on another aspect of this subject that we've heard much about behind the scenes and that is when members are VERY clearly juuuuust riding the cusp of our rules here -- where they're just on the edge...not quite breaking rules, but very clearly getting as close as they intentionally can. We know when you're doing it, and you know when you're doing it. Going forward, if a member is clearly riding that edge -- the post will just be deleted, period, gone....and any/all educational info you shared will have to be rewritten. And if that sort of cusp-riding behavior accumulates - suspensions or bans will follow.

As for "why this thread" instead of private PMs - it's because this is a community problem, and the community deserves to know it's being addressed. And the members of the community deserve to have a voice about what's been happening and what they've been seeing...no matter where you land on the issues. When there is an outcry for action, the community needs to know we've heard it and are addressing it. It's a public matter, therefore, we want to be transparent.

I totally agree with both of these statement and ALL of the above. There is so much good here on YT and most if not all of us mean well. Some just choose to go about it more aggressively thank others. Granted our views are clearly different and each of us go about stating them in very different ways which is great. That is until it gets personal and by that I mean "Tagging", using tags for your own person use and to discredit or in my eyes bully a person only because you disagree with their views and think that you know it all. I have had this happen to me and I was very taken back by the tags that were used to describe me. To the point that I seriously though about leaving. But No I was dammed if I would give this person and You know who you are the satisfaction of running me off ! This is something that has been in the back of my mind and until now I didn't feel comfortable bringing it up.

My Personal Experience: Several months ago I came across several threads where I stumbled upon tags and than went on a wild search in search of any and all tags where my name was associated with several bad terms used here on YT and quite frankly would be considers inappropriate in any forum or use of the words. I myself (My real name, YT username and my website) was tagged and I felt that the use of these certain tags had no other purpose other than to put me down or try to soil my good name. Which in my eyes was a form of bullying. Yes I said it, "bully" because when someone uses the term BRB in reference to my name or anyone else's on not just one but on several occasions on several different heated discussions mine and others just because they do not like or agree with what I or that person does is bullying to me. Correct me if you want but you will never change me feeling on this matter. I reported it and it was brought to my attention that is was clearly a personal attack. Reason being they were all done by the same person. So, yea... thats just one of my experiences with YT that have really made me wonder why anyone would take it upon themselves to do this and to target me ?

Lets face it None of you really know ME, and vise versa. You don't know what I do or what I stand for. Not have very few of you even taken the time to ask. I have been brought to tears and have been so hurt on many occasions in the past three or so years I have been a member all because someone figured they had me pegged as a BYB, a bad person, someone who was unworthy of their or anyone else's respect. Well that is your opinion any I guess by YT standards you and anyone else are entitled to your opinion but for myself my friends, family and those people who I have dealt with on a personal level they would have to disagree.

Ann: We discussed the thought of bringing this matter up so here it is. If you feel that this is not the right place to have this discussion, than please feel free to move it. Honestly, I feel that it needs some further review. Also if all of the members took the time to actually search their own threads and those where a heated discussion took place they may just find some of those inappropriate tags. Truly a very sad and disturbing use of tags if you ask me.

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

I had a request to clarify whether or not non-breeders are allowed to post in the Breeder section and the answer is, yes, they are allowed. If there is confusion over this, then we need to alter the rules in that section to read more clearly.

Thanks Ann.

[ladyjane]

I personally don't use tags much and think that some of them are so ridiculous. I think some people have NO idea what they are or how they work. I do agree that it seems some are quite spiteful. BUT you have to know that some of them are so unbelievably stupid and no one would be searching for the terms they add anyway. I shake my head at times and wonder who is doing it. Maybe they should be reported when they pop up.

I have often thought that they should be stopped. Just my two cents.