I'm getting a dna test done. Then what??

[Yorkieaddict22]

Originally Posted by Yorkiemommy1984

As much as the breeder says she loves her dogs I do believe her but in the same matter she is completly aware of the situation I'm in w Minnie with my concerns w her apparence and skin condition and and didnt act concerned about her apparence. or mention n e thing bout money to me. She said its cuz of her skin condition butbits not that cuz before her skin condition arrived her look was off. Her look was off at time of getting her. Did she really not think it was? I'm def not that type of person to ask for help but I am the type to expect to much out of people I guess

I believe she was waiting for someone who really wanted a puppy, I have to say this to you as a friend. Although what she did is very wrong, you need to maybe take someone with you next time you buy a puppy. Sometimes we are so happy that by the time we get to the breeders house the puppy was long ours. Im sorry but it looks like a chihuahua / yorkie mix to me, it looks nothing like a yorkie. I would go over there, print out a picture of a yorkie and compare it to your dog and claim it to her!! Make her give you a full refund this is completely unfair to you! You deserve to have the yorkie puppy you wanted and expected. Don't blame you though I have made similar mistakes but do claim whats yours! Fight for your right and then buy the dog that you want, she's adorable and Chorkies are a big trend now but if its not what you wanted then fight!!!

[Yorkieaddict22]

Im sorry I just feel so bad for you and your a good person for keeping her!!

[pstinard]

Originally Posted by joyziegirl

If Jen's breeder is just a person breeding her personal pets, and sells them directly to the public , and she's not a license business, none of those puppy laws apply to her. No law suit well hold up in court, Talk to the USDA, and your states Department of Consumer Affairs. Buying a puppy out of someone's house,..... same thing as buying something from their garage sale. Buyer Beware!

She does sell them on E-Bay. I don't think she has her own website or business...

[gemy]

Originally Posted by pstinard

According to the figure captions for the PCA analysis, Minnie was compared with Yorkshire Terriers (US Show) and Yorkshire Terriers (UK Show). To me, that means that MARS used only DNA from show dogs in their comparisons with Minnie's DNA. It's interesting that the US Show dogs clustered more closely together, and that the UK Show dogs were more spread out (showed more diversity). (Sorry that doesn't answer your question, but it's something I just noticed, so I had to throw it out there.)

I am catching up on my reading. First US Show or UK show does not actually define the registries involved. Let me explain, my YT is a multi champion and Canadian Bred. His birth or litter registry is with CKC in Canada, as a registered CKC Yorkie, I can register him which I did in AKC but not UKC registry. In terms of UKC I saw no need to register him there as I was not going to compete in UKC. Both AKC and CKC can give you pedigrees back seven generations. Of course that is given you breed with either AKC or CKC registered dogs.

Damningly US SHOW means nothing. There is no organization of the any repute in the dog show world that puts on US SHOW. That is a confusing term to say the least. You have AKC shows, UKC shows, and then a multiplicity of more minor dog shows for fielding trials, IABC shows, FCI shows, rescue competitions, various performance sport competitions etc.

The three main registries in Canada and USA, that being AKC, UKC, and CKC do a whole lot for the purebred dog world, including putting on conformation shows. They maintain the stud book.

In essence whilst they have given you an answer, it is incomplete and unclear as to registries.





Back to the question... Yes, Minnie is a Yorkie, but the breeder did knowingly sell a poor representation of the Yorkie standard. (Wait for the hair to grow longer?!?!??? Give me a break!!!) I think that if this ever went to court, Cristina (Minnie's breeder) could argue that at least Minnie is genetically a Yorkie. If push came to shove, a parentage test could be ordered to determine whether Minnie is the offspring of the reported parents, but I'm guessing that the results of such a test would favor the breeder . Minnie is the result of a breeder who didn't know what she was doing, but at this point, I don't think there is much that Jen can do about it. Cristina has other ads on ebay, but it looks like her dog breeding is more of a sideline than a profession--I don't know whether her litters and breeding program are registered with the AKC. If I were Jen, I'd file a complaint with the AKC. I don't know what else she can do at this point other than love Minnie as a very special and unique dog.

I DOUBT Very much if this breeder is an AKC breeder.

[gemy]

Originally Posted by pstinard

Wow, please email them with your questions and comments, and offer them DNA samples from better BRT stock. In the meantime, I'll get back with info on their Yorkshire Terrier sampling as soon as they tell me something. MARS has a virtual monopoly on canine breed testing, so they have to be held accountable and use the best samples. I hope that their sampling is not purely "ad hoc" and that they have some assurance of breed purity for the DNA samples in their database.

Hoping that they have breed purity DNA samples are not enough, if in any way they want reputable breeders to submit their DNA samples to be included in a hodgepodge of other DNA samples.

First of all, there should be a rigorous submission criteria. Microchipped dogs registered with a reputable registry, taken by an independent vet and submitted directly to them. Along with the pedigree history of this registered dog from the reputable registries.

For example when I do PRA certifications there is a whole lot of paperwork I fill out, including either and or both Tattoo number and microchip number. The opthamologist fills out the paperwork, including their evaluation and a copy is submitted to the CERF database.

Now I think what Mars is doing is great in one way, but at this point in time is mis-leading. Why they did not source out the National Clubs to voluntarily submit DNA samples I do not know. But as a member of three National Clubs I am pretty sure they have not.

I am going to be very clear here. And why trust is very important.
Reputable responsible breeders, will and should only register a litter if there is no doubt about the parentage from their purebred dogs. This means a number of things, you witnessed the tie, you safeguarded your female throughout her whole heat cycle and KNOW she never mated with any one other than the sire. We as the female owner register the litter, and in that registration information is the information of the sire.

So what happens if? If you get a puppy way outside of the standard for your breed? What happens if your breed is predominately black, and you get pups with brown paws? What happens if you didn't actually witness a tie, but hey your female is pregnant?

In all those situations, you (if you haven't yet DNA;d your breeding dogs) do that and sigh YES DNA the whole litter, because you just simply have to know the parentage, prior to registering this litter as purebred with a reputable registry.

This whole purebred world is built on trust. Trust that the breeder will insure proper breeding practices, will register their litters to the exact sire and dam involved. This is why we always say get to know your breeder, understand their practices, see them in action. And this is nothing new, this is how the purebred dog world has been for 100's of years.

Real life example. One of my mentors had an "oops litter". In this case it means she did not deliberately breed her bitch. And her bitch ended up pregnant...... The litter whelped it looked like BRT pups, but 4 wks later 2 pups had brown toes.... In a breed that is Black from nose to tail. She of course had already DNA;d her breeding dams and sires, she had to DNA her whole litter of 9 pups to see who the father was, and let me tell you she was on tenderhooks..... Did she have a mixed breed litter. Luckily it was purebred, how-ever now she has genetically tested her breeding stock for color.

So circling back to Mars testing, if their DNA samples are not coming from the top breeders that have shown to our show worlds integrity and commitment to insuring purebred integrity then, any DNA comparisons based on a sample pool of "purebreds" is hugely suspect.

[joyziegirl]

Originally Posted by MikaTallulah

I have a friend whose daughter was doing a science project and she sent the dogs (total of 3 dogs) specimens out to be anaylzed. Their purebred Champion GSD came back as a mix with bulldog. She had bred the GSD and the previous 6 generations herself. She found it pretty laughable! The other 2 were shepard type mixes anyway- Rescues.

The DNA tests can be wrong!

I'm starting to wonder if Mars actully does DNA testing on all the dogs sent to them. It would appear that they pulled a rabbit out of the hat on Minnie and your friends daughter's dogs, and I've heard many other stories of the same. How can you really trust what they tell you is for real.

[pstinard]

Originally Posted by gemy

Hoping that they have breed purity DNA samples are not enough, if in any way they want reputable breeders to submit their DNA samples to be included in a hodgepodge of other DNA samples.

First of all, there should be a rigorous submission criteria. Microchipped dogs registered with a reputable registry, taken by an independent vet and submitted directly to them. Along with the pedigree history of this registered dog from the reputable registries.

For example when I do PRA certifications there is a whole lot of paperwork I fill out, including either and or both Tattoo number and microchip number. The opthamologist fills out the paperwork, including their evaluation and a copy is submitted to the CERF database.

Now I think what Mars is doing is great in one way, but at this point in time is mis-leading. Why they did not source out the National Clubs to voluntarily submit DNA samples I do not know. But as a member of three National Clubs I am pretty sure they have not.

I am going to be very clear here. And why trust is very important.
Reputable responsible breeders, will and should only register a litter if there is no doubt about the parentage from their purebred dogs. This means a number of things, you witnessed the tie, you safeguarded your female throughout her whole heat cycle and KNOW she never mated with any one other than the sire. We as the female owner register the litter, and in that registration information is the information of the sire.

So what happens if? If you get a puppy way outside of the standard for your breed? What happens if your breed is predominately black, and you get pups with brown paws? What happens if you didn't actually witness a tie, but hey your female is pregnant?

In all those situations, you (if you haven't yet DNA;d your breeding dogs) do that and sigh YES DNA the whole litter, because you just simply have to know the parentage, prior to registering this litter as purebred with a reputable registry.

This whole purebred world is built on trust. Trust that the breeder will insure proper breeding practices, will register their litters to the exact sire and dam involved. This is why we always say get to know your breeder, understand their practices, see them in action. And this is nothing new, this is how the purebred dog world has been for 100's of years.

Real life example. One of my mentors had an "oops litter". In this case it means she did not deliberately breed her bitch. And her bitch ended up pregnant...... The litter whelped it looked like BRT pups, but 4 wks later 2 pups had brown toes.... In a breed that is Black from nose to tail. She of course had already DNA;d her breeding dams and sires, she had to DNA her whole litter of 9 pups to see who the father was, and let me tell you she was on tenderhooks..... Did she have a mixed breed litter. Luckily it was purebred, how-ever now she has genetically tested her breeding stock for color.

So circling back to Mars testing, if their DNA samples are not coming from the top breeders that have shown to our show worlds integrity and commitment to insuring purebred integrity then, any DNA comparisons based on a sample pool of "purebreds" is hugely suspect.

Please, please, please email MARS Labs--you have a way with words, and might be able to find out what their standards are, and help raise them. Let us know what you hear back from them!

[gemy]

Originally Posted by pstinard

Please, please, please email MARS Labs--you have a way with words, and might be able to find out what their standards are, and help raise them. Let us know what you hear back from them!

I am not sure I will, although for sure I will bring up Mars to our National Clubs in USA and in Canada.

I think that it would be good to get a breed specific genetic test, from what I have read they are far away from this. Of course for over 30 years or so, we can define a "dog" DNA from a rabbit or a geese.

I am not sure of the science of what they are doing, and how accurate their database is. Remember Garbage in, Garbage out, especially if you are doing some sort of comparative linkage to identify a dog breed, instead of genetic specific tests.

Also none of the major registries such as AKC, UKC, FCI, and CKC recognize this Mars testing protocol as valid for ascertaining a purebred dog status.

So big circle back to Minnie. I do so hope her skin condition heals up. Unfortunately I have no advice there.

[Teresiana]

Originally Posted by joyziegirl

I'm starting to wonder if Mars actully does DNA testing on all the dogs sent to them. It would appear that they pulled a rabbit out of the hat on Minnie and your friends daughter's dogs, and I've heard many other stories of the same. How can you really trust what they tell you is for real.

That's sort of what I thought when I got my test results back. (I posted my full results earlier in this thread.) It didn't really tell me anything I didn't already know. Then again, I'm no expert...so I didn't really know exactly what to look for. It just seemed very basic to me & most of the report pages were fluff. I'm glad I got it done...but I won't ever spend $125 on another one.

The reason I got mine done, was because my Morkie came to me very sick. She was a rescue & I was told she was half Maltese/Yorkshire Terrier. But I wanted to be sure so that I could look out for anything genetic that might come up in the future. So...the results didn't really help me much.

[Ldyrev1]

Originally Posted by Yorkiemom1

:thumbup
That was first in my mind too.....whatever she is, she is precious above all else!

[dollydoodle]

She's definitely a famous YorkieTalk star! No one here will forget her and everyone will have a fun time watching her grow. I hope we'll see lots of photos.

[Yorkieaddict22]

Originally Posted by Teresiana

That's sort of what I thought when I got my test results back. (I posted my full results earlier in this thread.) It didn't really tell me anything I didn't already know. Then again, I'm no expert...so I didn't really know exactly what to look for. It just seemed very basic to me & most of the report pages were fluff. I'm glad I got it done...but I won't ever spend $125 on another one.

The reason I got mine done, was because my Morkie came to me very sick. She was a rescue & I was told she was half Maltese/Yorkshire Terrier. But I wanted to be sure so that I could look out for anything genetic that might come up in the future. So...the results didn't really help me much.

You know my husband and I have this theory.....maybe the vets test our answers rather than the dog. I have also done this and haven't received any info I didn't know. In the past I have noticed the times I have needed blood work for my dogs everything has always been fine as long as I said I hadn't noticed anything., I told my vet that I had given chocolate to my dog (I know dumb me) and she was Pre diabetic. Spent $380 on vitamins and medicine plus new food without including the $90 blood work. Went to a different doctor for a second opinion without mentioning anything and I got a call she was clear. Suspicious to me honestly, were not professionals and I think we get walked on.

[pstinard]

Originally Posted by dollydoodle

She's definitely a famous YorkieTalk star! No one here will forget her and everyone will have a fun time watching her grow. I hope we'll see lots of photos.

Yes, Minnie is officially a member of the Yorkietalk Hall of Fame! I'm looking forward to watching her grow .

[Yorkiemommy1984]

Minnie and i just wanted Thank you everyone for all of your kind words and great advice and exterise thru all this. We appreciate everything so much and am thankful I came across this site. She feels very loved by you all. I will keep everyone updated as she continues to grow into an even more amazing dog.

[lynzy420]

Originally Posted by Yorkiemommy1984

Minnie and i just wanted Thank you everyone for all of your kind words and great advice and exterise thru all this. We appreciate everything so much and am thankful I came across this site. She feels very loved by you all. I will keep everyone updated as she continues to grow into an even more amazing dog.

She really is a one of kind...beautiful pup!