I believe she was waiting for someone who really wanted a puppy, I have to say this to you as a friend. Although what she did is very wrong, you need to maybe take someone with you next time you buy a puppy. Sometimes we are so happy that by the time we get to the breeders house the puppy was long ours. Im sorry but it looks like a chihuahua / yorkie mix to me, it looks nothing like a yorkie. I would go over there, print out a picture of a yorkie and compare it to your dog and claim it to her!! Make her give you a full refund this is completely unfair to you! You deserve to have the yorkie puppy you wanted and expected. Don't blame you though I have made similar mistakes but do claim whats yours! Fight for your right and then buy the dog that you want, she's adorable and Chorkies are a big trend now but if its not what you wanted then fight!!!

Im sorry I just feel so bad for you and your a good person for keeping her!!

She does sell them on E-Bay. I don't think she has her own website or business...

I DOUBT Very much if this breeder is an AKC breeder.

Hoping that they have breed purity DNA samples are not enough, if in any way they want reputable breeders to submit their DNA samples to be included in a hodgepodge of other DNA samples.

First of all, there should be a rigorous submission criteria. Microchipped dogs registered with a reputable registry, taken by an independent vet and submitted directly to them. Along with the pedigree history of this registered dog from the reputable registries.

For example when I do PRA certifications there is a whole lot of paperwork I fill out, including either and or both Tattoo number and microchip number. The opthamologist fills out the paperwork, including their evaluation and a copy is submitted to the CERF database.

Now I think what Mars is doing is great in one way, but at this point in time is mis-leading. Why they did not source out the National Clubs to voluntarily submit DNA samples I do not know. But as a member of three National Clubs I am pretty sure they have not.

I am going to be very clear here. And why trust is very important.
Reputable responsible breeders, will and should only register a litter if there is no doubt about the parentage from their purebred dogs. This means a number of things, you witnessed the tie, you safeguarded your female throughout her whole heat cycle and KNOW she never mated with any one other than the sire. We as the female owner register the litter, and in that registration information is the information of the sire.

So what happens if? If you get a puppy way outside of the standard for your breed? What happens if your breed is predominately black, and you get pups with brown paws? What happens if you didn't actually witness a tie, but hey your female is pregnant?

In all those situations, you (if you haven't yet DNA;d your breeding dogs) do that and sigh YES DNA the whole litter, because you just simply have to know the parentage, prior to registering this litter as purebred with a reputable registry.

This whole purebred world is built on trust. Trust that the breeder will insure proper breeding practices, will register their litters to the exact sire and dam involved. This is why we always say get to know your breeder, understand their practices, see them in action. And this is nothing new, this is how the purebred dog world has been for 100's of years.

Real life example. One of my mentors had an "oops litter". In this case it means she did not deliberately breed her bitch. And her bitch ended up pregnant...... The litter whelped it looked like BRT pups, but 4 wks later 2 pups had brown toes.... In a breed that is Black from nose to tail. She of course had already DNA;d her breeding dams and sires, she had to DNA her whole litter of 9 pups to see who the father was, and let me tell you she was on tenderhooks..... Did she have a mixed breed litter. Luckily it was purebred, how-ever now she has genetically tested her breeding stock for color.

So circling back to Mars testing, if their DNA samples are not coming from the top breeders that have shown to our show worlds integrity and commitment to insuring purebred integrity then, any DNA comparisons based on a sample pool of "purebreds" is hugely suspect.

I'm starting to wonder if Mars actully does DNA testing on all the dogs sent to them. It would appear that they pulled a rabbit out of the hat on Minnie and your friends daughter's dogs, and I've heard many other stories of the same. How can you really trust what they tell you is for real. :thumbdown

Please, please, please email MARS Labs--you have a way with words, and might be able to find out what their standards are, and help raise them. Let us know what you hear back from them!

I am not sure I will, although for sure I will bring up Mars to our National Clubs in USA and in Canada.

I think that it would be good to get a breed specific genetic test, from what I have read they are far away from this. Of course for over 30 years or so, we can define a "dog" DNA from a rabbit or a geese.

I am not sure of the science of what they are doing, and how accurate their database is. Remember Garbage in, Garbage out, especially if you are doing some sort of comparative linkage to identify a dog breed, instead of genetic specific tests.

Also none of the major registries such as AKC, UKC, FCI, and CKC recognize this Mars testing protocol as valid for ascertaining a purebred dog status.

So big circle back to Minnie. I do so hope her skin condition heals up. Unfortunately I have no advice there.

That's sort of what I thought when I got my test results back. (I posted my full results earlier in this thread.) It didn't really tell me anything I didn't already know. Then again, I'm no expert...so I didn't really know exactly what to look for. It just seemed very basic to me & most of the report pages were fluff. I'm glad I got it done...but I won't ever spend $125 on another one.

The reason I got mine done, was because my Morkie came to me very sick. She was a rescue & I was told she was half Maltese/Yorkshire Terrier. But I wanted to be sure so that I could look out for anything genetic that might come up in the future. So...the results didn't really help me much.

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

She's definitely a famous YorkieTalk star! No one here will forget her and everyone will have a fun time watching her grow. I hope we'll see lots of photos.

You know my husband and I have this theory.....maybe the vets test our answers rather than the dog. I have also done this and haven't received any info I didn't know. In the past I have noticed the times I have needed blood work for my dogs everything has always been fine as long as I said I hadn't noticed anything., I told my vet that I had given chocolate to my dog (I know dumb me) and she was Pre diabetic. Spent $380 on vitamins and medicine plus new food without including the $90 blood work. Went to a different doctor for a second opinion without mentioning anything and I got a call she was clear. Suspicious to me honestly, were not professionals and I think we get walked on.

Yes, Minnie is officially a member of the Yorkietalk Hall of Fame! I'm looking forward to watching her grow :).

Minnie and i just wanted Thank you everyone for all of your kind words and great advice and exterise thru all this. We appreciate everything so much and am thankful I came across this site. She feels very loved by you all. I will keep everyone updated as she continues to grow into an even more amazing dog. :)

She really is a one of kind...beautiful pup!

Minnie is a little gem, and so lucky to be part of your wonderful family. There is no limit to the amount of love and joy she will bring to you, and you to her, and I wish you all the best forever.

Could you tell us what company AKC does recognize for DNA testing? Apparently from your information reputable breeders have been using DNA testing in their operations. Just wondering which company is considered reputable. Someone who may present with a similar situation may need that info in the future.

I was looking at what you said. One of the related breeds for Yorkshire Terrier is Biewer. but I had pulled up Biewer it shows related breeds as

Chihuahua

Toy Fox Terrier

Pekingese

Silky Terrier

Pomeranian

Shih Tzu

But no Yorkshire Terrier

Now I think there is a problem right there. Then I clicked it from the Yorkshire Terrier page I got
Toy Fox Terrier

Pug

Brussels Griffon

Black and Tan English Toy Terrier

Miniature Pinscher

Affenpinscher


Hmmmm. There is something really wrong with the related breed part

The lists on the "related breeds" links are randomly generated and therefore bogus. However, if you look at Minnie's DNA test report, the report compares Minnie's DNA with Yorkshire Terriers, and what MARS claims are the two closest related breeds to the Yorkshire Terrier: The Silky Terrier and the Löwchen.

Sadly, Biewers are not accepted/recognized by the AKC.(yet)

DNA test results or not, Minnie is either an extremely poor (emphasis added) example of the Yorkshire Terrier breed or she definitely has something mixed in beyond the 3 generations back. I have seen poorly bred Yorkies before and none of them look like Minnie.

Minnie is cute as a button though and I know she is being well taken care of by Jen. I just hope they can get her skin issues resolved soon. Poor baby. Can't wait to see other pictures of her growing up.

The DNA testing utilized by AKC and or CKC, as far as I am aware, is to prove parentage and not breed type.
It is used by breeders if there is an un-certainty of parentage for a particular litter, or to some disputes about parentage.

I think the testing lab information is probably on AKC's website

AKC has the DNA samples tested by Neogen. See: American Kennel Club - DNA Frequently Asked Questions

and

Neogen Genomics | Neogen

I agree with you here but will go one step further....It is obvious that Minnie is not completely a Yorkie.

Example in the human world: My mother's dearest friend Rita was married to Bill, they had a daughter Ruthie, Ruthie was very obviously (like Minnie) not a completely caucasion child.....Billy left Rita believing she had cheated on him....my mother convinced him that Rita did not cheat etc., wait for blood tests etc....come to find out a little known family secret was that Great Great Grandma was part African American part White...anyway...Ruthie looks more African American than white but she is beautiful and Rita and Billy are still married today. Noteworthy here is that Ruthie's children have barely a hint of African American, YOU would not know that they had it in their blood upon site. Ruthie you can tell immediately upon site.

My point here is this can happen in dog world too, I am not a fool I can look at Minnie and tell what she is NOT, don't tell me what I CAN clearly see (not a Yorkie), test results or not this pup is clearly mixed with something down the line.

Let me immediately clarify my above post, I am using the humans as an example that I've experienced...not to compare dogs to humans...so as not to offend anyone let me also add. I am unbiased and non prejudiced, the only people I dislike are BAD people.

I understand what you are saying... I was explaining recessive genes to my dd the other day... She was having a hard time understand how two brown eye parents can have a blue eye child but not two blue eye parents a brown eye child.

So.... recessive genes can be carried many generations and will show up only with another recessive gene. My question on your "human" example ... what was the father's gene pool?

btway, Billie was 100% Irish and was definitely the father of Ruthie

Could I ask a question of the breeders here? I had understood that more than one recessive gene, despite the odds, can show up at once at any time in a lineage to occasionally produce a purebred puppy that isn't typical of the breed and that any gene or genes can mutate at any time, also producing the atypical purebred pup. Are those statements true, however far-fetched the liklihood?

I'm not a breeder, but I'm a geneticist, and it is true. Actually, it's not even that unlikely. There could be bad recessive mutations that have been carried in "good" lines for generations, but never showed up as homozygous in the offspring because they were never bred to another carrier. But when that happens, then you finally see that it was there all the time--this happened with hemophilia in the British and Russian royal families. This goes to show the importance for developing tests for as many problematic alleles ("bad genes") as possible so that if you can't eliminate them entirely, you can at least try not to breed a carrier to another carrier.

Here's a quote from an article on hemophilia that can serve as an example of what can go on in breeding lines:

Although an individual's hemophilia can usually be traced in the ancestry, in about 30% of cases there is no family history of the disorder and the condition is speculated to be the result of spontaneous mutation in an ancestor.

Haemophilia in European royalty - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

To Baboon Cristina
 

As the breeder I would hope that you still want to try to get to the bottom of how "your" lines produced such an atypical Yorkie.

DNA parentage test should be done to confirm Minnie's parentage.

Beyond that I hope that you have learnt a whole lot more about the breed, before you dip your toes in again to breed.

Also you should at least gather enough knowledge of the breed to understand if you have an atypical Yorkie pup; and settle things way ahead of time prior to offering for sale a Yorkie pup.

It is never easy and or "cheap" to breed the right way; and that starts with getting a mentor with a great reputation+experience and usually uses one of the three main registries in North America.