Buy a six pack of Redbull and get to work on this!

Article behind pay firewall:

So many doggone traits: mapping genetics of multiple phenotypes in the domestic dog

:yelrotflm:lol tears

I am going to need at least a week to get through that link.. And a bottle of wine too:D

Ooooh, thank you. Summer reading! :)

No kidding. And besides, sleep is overrated and who needs food - it's only fattening! If you work straight through, answers can just pour forth in no time! :D

Do you know how I can get the article? It won't email it to me. I use yahoo and can't set it up as a default in my Windows 7 for some reason. Waaa!

I poked around and now it's saying I can rent it and I tried the 5 min. version which it denied saying no auth. from publisher instead of letting me read. Is there no way to read it but to pay for it?

I saw there apparently is a recessive gene for short hair in the Havanese, but since the Yorkshire Terrier has a rather unique gene for silk hair, is it not possible that the Havanese has a unique recessive gene for short hair? However, from reading those articles, it appears that the Havanese breeders were surprised by the appearance of short hair in their pups, which presents some possible questions as well.

But...

Did I miss the post and/or article that states that there definitely exists in the Yorkshire Terrier breed a recessive gene for short hair that might have been expressed in Minnie?

I ask because this is the first mention I have ever heard of a short hair (recessive) Yorkshire Terrier, and considering that this forum has had several recent mentions of "blue born" Yorkies...a recessive attribute, coupled with all the mentions of Yorkshire Terriers rescued from BYB's, puppy mills, pet stores, and animal center/rescue organizations...and all the other "badly bred" Yorkies, I must admit I find it surprising that this is the first mention of a "short hair (recessive) Yorkie" outside the hair growth patterns of the "red legged" Yorkie. Would that not be a fairly 'monumental' discovery?

I can access the article on Monday and copy and paste sections here under "fair use" policy--that means that we will have to analyze, comment, and critique it ;).

On Monday, PM me your email address and I will email you a free PDF copy of the article.

Oh, no thanks, that is more than sweet but I think I put you in a bad position and I'm sorry. I would not ask you to do that, provide me a free version of what they charge to read. I'd thought that even if behind a firewall it was okay for all interested parties to read this since they had allowed renting for free and that I was just doing something wrong in how I was trying to access it - clicking on the wrong thing or something. Don't you worry about it - I'll read those other article links you so kindly provided.

This MARS test result has quite unsettled me and unless that lab is just truly producing a very faulty product and passing it off as a reliable test for breed determination, I would love to know more about how likely a very atypical pup, both coat-wise and conformation-wise, is to come from purebred Yorkies whose lines from both sides have always closely adhered to the breed standard.

All breeds of dogs are still dogs, and carry the same genetic loci (genes, or protein-coding DNA sequences at specific locations on the chromosomes). What makes each breed unique is the differences in DNA sequence at these genetic loci. So Yorkies definitely carry the dominant long hair allele at the Havanese genetic locus. All it would take to get a recessive short-haired Yorkie is a mutation of the Havanese gene from dominant long-hair to recessive short-hair, for that mutation to be passed on to offspring, who are then carriers, and then to breed a carrier with another carrier so you get a homozygous (two copies of the mutant gene) short-haired Yorkie. I don't know whether such a discovery would be "monumental"--I think that breeders would be upset and try to eliminate it from their breeding stock. It may even have already taken place. There are other Yorkietalk threads on short hair Yorkies where people have said they have seen Yorkies that look like regular Yorkies except for having short hair. I don't know whether this is what happened in Minnie's case--the only way to find out would be by genetic testing. There is supposedly a genetic test for the Havanese short hair mutant gene, but I don't know how good the test is. I've read of the gene being called the "furnishings" gene, or "RSPO2" gene, but that information was in an informal article, not a research article, so I don't know how accurate that information is.

I think that the article behind the pay firewall is a review article that summarizes the research in the other full articles that I was able to link to--I'll know more on Monday when I get a chance to read it myself--so maybe you're not missing out on anything. At any rate, I'll let you know. If the truth be told, people email articles back and forth to each other all the time--the publisher just doesn't want people to make a habit of it. Those other articles will definitely make for summer reading, and if you finish reading them before me, you'll know more than I do and be able to explain it to me ;).

I think that the safest thing we can say about the MARS test is that it can tell if a dog is at least 90% purebred Yorkie, but it can't tell you whether a particular dog adheres to breed standards. And don't forget the photo of Minnie's mother--she didn't look like she adhered to breed standards anyway.

Well, I'll read those articles and they will likely give me as much information as I can understand without going into great depth. But I would so like to understand far more than I do about genetics in dogs. It's fascinating how they can vary so much compared to other species and how so many Yorkies favor and yet many others do not.

Geesh, I have to wait till Monday to analyze and critique and comment? wth Stinard I had more faith in you than that...:p

I'm ready, I've downloaded my geneticist dictionary...I am so on top of this...lol

It really is so very interesting its funny how as soon as I log on I check this thread now! Stinard your turning us into genetical intellectuals! btw do you have a first name or do you prefer Pstinard which for some reason I always see "pees in the yard"...not making fun of your name...but I think its the whole YT and my mind registers pup things...I read too much into it:D but now I can't get past it...:eek:

Jeanie, what is your background? If you don't mind me asking? Educationally and Professionally? You seem to pick this up quickly, I enjoy reading your posts as well.

I was able to get the free 5 minute view, and tried to copy it so I could save it, but they are very clever, and didn't make it easy. So I brought up each page one at a time and did a screen shot, and my 5 minutes ran out after I captured only 4 pages :mad:. But I got a good view of the article, and it's very nice, with color photos of dogs. I'll get a better look on Monday.

It's Father's Day weekend. Do you think I'm going to make a special trip to the University on Father's Day weekend?!?!??? Hold your Yorkies until Monday! BTW, I never thought about "pees in the yard" but it makes sense :rolleyes:--I won't say anything more than that, LOL! The "P" stands for Phil, so you can call me Phil.

Oh thanks Phil, I'm tired of referring to you as the "pees in the yard" guy!
Happy Father's Day...I'll hold my Yorkies till then! I sure hope you can get in to it.

Oh, how I hate those pay firewalls.
 

I mentioned getting a screen capture of the first four pages of a review article on the genetic differences between different breeds of dogs. Below is a low resolution screen capture of page 2 of the article. It has a beautiful color graph that shows how different breeds of dogs are related to each other. It has a nice color section on terriers, and is so tantalizing, because I can't read the names of the dog breeds in the graph! It will have to wait until Monday :(.

Okay, here's a link to a phylogenetic tree for different breeds of dogs. It looks fairly similar to the one in the article I just posted. The closer the breeds are on the different tree branches, the more closely the breeds are related.

http://newsroom.ucla.edu/portal/ucla...g-breeds-1.jpg

This sounds wonderful! I am a high school resource room teacher, and some of my students take Biology. I need to have an understanding of their subjects to be able to break the material down and help them to understand it, too. I have some understanding of Genetics and loved learning about it when i was younger, but i have learned so much on this thread. I thank you so much for your generous time and help with all of this. I find this all so fascinating, and when school winds down after Friday, I am going to read the links you have so graciously provided. I have been upset for a long time about the indiscriminate breeding of a breed I have loved since I was a child. All of the health issues terrify me, and until I found YorkieTalk, I rarely saw Yorkies who looked like the image of a Yorkie that I envision in my mind. I am positive I would love any dog of mine no matter if it resembled that image or not, but I so love the temperament and looks of this truly beautiful, special breed. I have a much greater understanding than I did four years ago when I joined YT of why maintaining a standard is so important and all that breeders who are breeding to better the breed are doing. I am so grateful to my breeder for her commitment to this breed, the pups she raises, and for entrusting me with our precious little girl. It is so very evident when you see Katie's temperament, structure, and vigor the devotion her breeder has for bringing these precious lives into the world. This is the true reason to breed and what distinguishes the true fanciers and ones devoted to the health and welfare of this breed from the BYBs and other people breeding for profit.

Thank you again for your commitment to YT and for helping to enlighten us on genetics. I hope you have a Happy Father's Day.

Thanks! I think you will be able to get a lot out of these articles. The science of canine genetics seems to be really taking off, and it is quite fascinating. BTW, the phylogenetic tree link I just posted is the same one as in the article that is behind the pay firewall, and it's interesting to see how the different breeds of dogs are related (and unrelated). The Yorkshire Terrier is closely related to other terriers, and even to Bulldogs, Boxers and Mastiffs, but is less related to other toy breeds like Chihuahuas, Pomeranians, and Pekingese.

This is interesting, Mastiffs??? I never would have thought.

safe to say Minnie is a throwback? If I'm not mistaken that thread top marker joins the Doberman as well at some point? Geesh I think you need to do a powerpoint for us!

:thumbup::thumbup: I'm all for a power point!!

The Dobermans (in with working dogs) are more distantly related. By groups, from most closely related to the Yorkie, to least related:

(1) Small Terriers
(2) Mastiff-like dogs
(3) Retrievers
(4) Sight hounds and Herding dogs
(5) Working dogs
(6) Toys, Spaniels, Scent dogs
(7) Ibizan, Kuvasz
(8) Ancient and Spitz breeds
(9) Wolves and coyotes

My eyes are a little bleary from trying to follow the individual branches, but that looks pretty close to how they are related.

Father's Day gift--the article was available for free all the time.
 

Here is a free copy of the article "So many doggone traits: mapping genetics of multiple phenotypes in the domestic dog." I knew I could find it free somewhere if I looked hard enough...

http://www.genome.duke.edu/seminars/...Traits2012.pdf

Another free article on the relationship and development of breeds of dogs:

Genome-wide SNP and haplotype analyses reveal a rich history underlying dog domestication - Europe PMC Article - Europe PubMed Central