Not sure what to do about Macie's breeder...

[Ringo1]

I don't know what I would do. I would be so reluctant to open myself up to more heartache and uncertain, too, about proceeding to magistrate court. (Just cause I know how I am).

This breeder sounds like a well-intentioned BYB - but without genetic testing.

IF you can have the puppy she is currently offering - completely vet checked . . . I still don't know. That is awfully small.

I'm sorry for your loss.

[spruitt7]

Originally Posted by Ringo1

I don't know what I would do. I would be so reluctant to open myself up to more heartache and uncertain, too, about proceeding to magistrate court. (Just cause I know how I am).

This breeder sounds like a well-intentioned BYB - but without genetic testing.

IF you can have the puppy she is currently offering - completely vet checked . . . I still don't know. That is awfully small.

I'm sorry for your loss.

Ive decided not to get another dog from her. My gut is saying no, so Im gonna go with that.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by spruitt7

This is her first email to me:

Stephanie,

Just so you know, David is my son, He had purchased Jesse & Cali from me for family Pets, he owns Jesse & Cali. I will tell you they were both born in my home, and from healthy parents and healthy grandparents etc. I know the linage well. The Yorkies are pets first, but are allowed to breed on occasion. I never breed my females every cycle and neither will David. So Cali was skipped about two months ago. So she will not be in heat again for 6 months. Then it takes 63 days for dropping the litter. Then it takes 8 to 12 weeks for them to be ready.
My son David has talked with his Vet and showed him all the paper work. Dr Moony is aware of the good linage & history of healthy pups for years. He seems to think that this was caused by something she ate & or a birth defect or both. He also explained a birth defect can happen to the smallest of litter, mostly when they was the first to drop from the litter. He also claims this can happen to anyone that breeds over time, even though they have had healthy pups. It may never occur again. Even though vets suspect Liver shunt because of condition, he said a Liver shunt is not conclusive. It was obvious that Macie had Kidney Stones. All her litter mates are fine. The Vet assured David that a birth defect will happen to any breeder that breeds long enough... He is confident that Jesse & Cali are fine to breed. I am just heart broken that this happened to Macie, our last puppy we sold.
Your puppy will be replaced. You will only be responsible for the shipping of puppy as contract states.

Option #1 - Ella - Ella is Macie's litter mate - so she is the age of Macie.. She just got fixed on Tuesday - and Dr Moony ran a full blood panel on her, so she has been tested. - Ella weighs 2.5 pounds - Ella & her name is registered, but AKC allows for new owners to change name. I am sure they charge something for the change of name, but I have never changed one myself and this is a recent option that they made available.

Option #2 - Wait for David's Jesse & Cali next litter - which is still approx 8 months away before the dropping the litter. - Last litter was 3 girls & 2 boys.

Option #3 - Maryann's Mick & Esme - Which is due to drop drop puppies the later part of June. - I do not know a lot about Maryann's Esme - Jesse sired a litter with her that was adorable 3 girls & 2 boys. I only had contact with Becky Howard that purchased David's pick of the litter Little Clio, she had purchased two other yorkies Kyra & Cali (another Cali... seems to be a popular name).. from me in the past. When grown Becky's Clio finally reached 4 pound she is a lover girl from what Becky says, where Cali is more mischievous. Mick & Esme has had a litter together before. I think 1 girl & 3 3oys.

This is a list of first available puppies. I may also have another available from Patti, but I still have to check on that status, I am actually waiting to hear from Patti: I have retired from breeding due to age & health issues. However, I have pick of a few litters from other people. You will have a few months left on Macie's contract, that will be forwarded to your choice of an available puppy. I will have a panel run on any puppy available that you choose, like Ella just had. I would like to state, that I am requesting you to feed the Hill's Science Diet Small bites (dry pebbles) for toy breed for the remainder of the contract that is left.

Another thing is on new litters upcoming you can not guarantee size etc. - We will not know until the drop if they are male or female. Sometimes litters occasionally drop all boys or all girls. If on the occasion of an all boy litter we would have to wait until the next available litter.

Let me know which you would like: I have been trying to get your options to you as soon as possible. Because of our commitment next week where I will not be available.




This is her second email when I told her I was scared and wanted a refund:

Stephanie,

Sorry I do not do refunds. Only replacement of a puppy. That is explain in the contract. I do not replace puppies because they were to small. A person can not guarantee a size of a puppy.

Just because something happens to one does not mean, that any others are that way or will be that way. All my puppies are with AKC and can be tracked and verified that they are healthy. Except for Macie. I believe any Vet would tell you the same as Dr Moony told David. So you can not be scared of that, because that would stop you from buying from any breeder, because this could happen to anyone.. Macie is the first offspring to ever be afflicted.

The only time after talking with other breeders, that I purchased a puppy back was when a women found out she was dying with cancer and couldn't she was not going to be able to care for him. By standards of other breeders, I did a buy back on him for 1/2 the purchased price.
I actually wish I knew when Macie first got sick so our Vets could have been monitoring this from day one. Then I could have had a choice to come and get her before she was put down and do try more to do more help her.

So exactly what are wanting me to do?

You have to pay shipping? I would run from this person. I wish people would stop giving breeders like this money. She takes no responsibility. She says things like "The Yorkies are pets first, but are allowed to breed on occasion". What???? No one should breed their pets! I don't care what her contract says, you can still sue her. I'm not sure who you breeder is, but many states have puppy lemon laws that protect the consumer no matter what the contract says. For example read Oklahoma's new lemon puppy law. Oklahoma Puppy Lemon Law | eHow.com

Returns and Refunds
Oklahoma's regulations provide for reimbursement of the puppy's purchase price in some circumstances, but don't provide for any reimbursement for veterinary costs as of early 2011. The buyer is only entitled to a refund of the purchase price if he returns a puppy that was unfit for sale or provides proof that it died. The regulations define a pet as unfit for sale if a veterinarian states in writing, within 10 days after the sale, that it has an undisclosed health problem or disease that existed at the time of sale. It's also unfit for sale if a vet states within a year that it's not the breed type specified in the invoice, or that it's ill or died of an undisclosed hereditary or congenital defect.

With her saying "I do not replace puppies because they were to small. A person can not guarantee a size of a puppy", she mixes truth with fiction, sure no breeder can gaurantee the size of a puppy, but you are NOT returning a pup because it was too small. I would not give this person one more cent.

[maggiefromnj]

It does sound like she is getting the pups from her own "stock" or has favors owed her in the form of pick of the litter. Neither of these is cash from her own pocket. I suspect the issue is she doesn't want to come up with cash.

If the $ were an issue, and I couldn't afford to get a puppy elsewhere I would probably take up her offer of a new one, with complete bloodwork, done by YOUR choice of vet. I would also ask for a new guarantee of 12 months (maybe negotiate that lower if you have to) at least for genetic issues.

Other than my opinion as above, go with your gut. Unless your gut has made mistakes before!

[carmen in nj]

Wow, this story is such a heart brake, if you were in NJ, I would just offer you a free silky puppy, I am looking for good homes for this litter and you certaintly deserve a healthy pup.. all I can tell you is that this woman is breeding without all the necesary tests. I am so sorry this happen to you..
hope you can get at least a partial refund.. I know if this was me I would.
hugs and best of luck..

[TraciG]

Originally Posted by spruitt7

Ive decided not to get another dog from her. My gut is saying no, so Im gonna go with that.

Awww... So sorry for your loss and all that you have gone through. You are the only one that knows when you are ready to open your heart up to another baby. One day maybe, one day......

[concretegurl]

I hope you heal over this and everything works out with you and the breeder in resolution, but...

Originally Posted by spruitt7

My gut is telling me not to do it, so Im going to go with that.

I did email her and ask about a refund or a partial refund. I explained to her that Macie was too small for my liking and her sister is just as small.

Im waiting for a reply, but Im not holding my breath.

Great decision!
Don't feel panicked to make a decision in a rush or think that you have to do something immediately or it will be more of a loss.
When it doubt slow it all down.
Who's to say she won't have the perfect pup for you later>?
Who's to say until things are found out you won't end up (so sorry to even mention it) you won't end up going through this again right after?
There is a reason we all need grieving periods.

Originally Posted by DBlain

2. Ask her to sell the sister and give you the money from that sale or
3. Ask her to sell one of the June puppies and give you

That's a great idea!
Yet I don't understand why some people aren't okay with this.
It never hurts to ask.
Just say hey can we do this instead-it doesn't change anything it just either opens or closes the door to that question.

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

I hope you do a review on this breeder.

Give it some time to have everything sorted before you do this please. DOCUMENT EVERYTHING!
Don't make decisions over the phone (unless you have people listening on speaker phone-still that's not the best method) do all correspondence via email or some other way you have evidence of any and all agreements!
It's so sad to say but in this day and age you need to always protect yourself!
Trust me I know.

[Tayluvheryorkie]

You have the contract, and you are bound by it. BUT if you can prove fraud.. Or that the parents are not healthy, thus unhealthy pups, then you might be able to get your money back.

[Patti]

I am so sorry about Macie. I lost my little Dixie from underdeveloped kidneys, congenital. I did everything to try and save her but she couldn't live with the underdeveloped kidneys. The kidney specialist I took her to said there was no way to screen the parents for this, it just happens. I had already gotten Pixie from this breeder and she cried with me when I told her Dixie passed. She gave me money towards the vet bills and a puppy when I was ready. I ended up taking Roxie who was going to be bigger since size didn't really matter. Since I trusted her and knew she would never have sold Dixie if she knew she was sick I felt comfortable taking another puppy. It sounds like you do not have that comfort level with the breeder and I think your wise to trust your gut feelings.

[Lilymo]

She may have kept the other pup to breed so taking her would get her out of that situation. Can you take the pup for a vet check first before agreeing to take her and also see the checks she gas had done. This is just me but I would get that little one out if there if I could. Although I'd want to make sure she was healthy. I can feel what you are going through loosing a pup so young. A difficult choice are you close enough to visit and see the girl for yourself ? Good luck.

[DBlain]

Originally Posted by Lilymo

She may have kept the other pup to breed so taking her would get her out of that situation. Can you take the pup for a vet check first before agreeing to take her and also see the checks she gas had done. This is just me but I would get that little one out if there if I could. Although I'd want to make sure she was healthy. I can feel what you are going through loosing a pup so young. A difficult choice are you close enough to visit and see the girl for yourself ? Good luck.

in the email she said the sister was just spayed, that made me think the breeder might not be to bad of a person because she spent the money to have her fixed and does not seem to anxious to sell her. So she is probably keeping her as a pet or will eventually sell her to someone that has no intention of breeding her. She is just so tiny, for me that would not work but I know others feel different.

It irks me that if she does not take the sister or a new puppy that she would be out all her money, another option would be to tell the breeder you want the puppy but to keep her there and you will try to sell her. If she just did have a full blood panel done and was vet checked I would think she would sell fairly easily. Where is this breeder located? perhaps she is near someone from Yorkie Talk, I know if she was near me I would not mind driving out there to see the pup and talk to the vet and try to work something out, I am sure other yorkie talkers would be willing to do the same thing, we do have a large network of members across the US. Poor Stephanie she is trying to deal with the loss of a beloved pet and make a big decision at the same time, just wish there was someway we could help her.

[lynzy420]

Honestly, for all you have been through, I personally would write her a heartfelt letter (that will probably mean nothing to her) make sure to ask for a refund in the letter, go downtown to small claims court and see what happens, I would not take a pup from this woman or anyone she knows.

Stephanie, you've been through alot of heartache and lost your poor baby in a terrible way, stay away from this piece of crap, no contact=no new hurts. You already know what you need to do. There are many good breeders on YT who i'm sure would work with you. You deserve so much more than your willing to take from this horrible byb. Good Luck.

[azkaty]

I would research breeders, and walk away from this person. No matter how nice she seems to be, she is still not doing what she should. A good breeder would do what ever it takes to make the situation right. In your case you want your money back.. that is fair and reasonable, in this situation.

I do not think small claims will get you what you want, and would prolong the heart ache. Most legal actions, even small claims, take time.. and no guarantees.

I would wait, heal, and research.. your heart will tell you when you have found the right breeder.

If I was in your situation.. I would go to some of the dog shows where you can meet the breeders personally, and then get to know them first. This is a lifetime 12 or more years, that you will have a yorkie..I would spend the time to do it right.

[gracielove]

Ordinarily when a puppy dies of a genetic problem or something that is the result of something grossly negligent I would say go after the breeder if only to try to stop them from doing the same to another dog or person. I guess things are not quite so clear in this situation. It's such a heartbreaker. I hope that some how you get a happy healthy little girl to replace the poor little darling you lost.