SET Yorkies

[DBlain]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

I just have to ask: Do all of the breeders who are on this forum and offering pups to individuals on this forum check the buyers out? I keep seeing where people post that someone offered them a puppy in PM and I don't see that there was an application process?
Just curious........

I can't speak about any breeders on here since I have never bought from any, but on three separate occasions I did purchase 3 yorkies from show breeders. They claimed to be fussy about where the dogs went and asked a lot of questions but did not really know if I was telling the truth since they never paid me a visit. Perhaps if you are willing to pay $1,000.00 + for a dog they take for granted you must be OK. Also since so many are willing to ship dogs that would be an impossible task. My mind is conflicted if that is even practical, one time I drove 4 hours each way, I doubt a breeder would take the time to do that for each dog they sold. One time I thought about getting a yorkie rescue instead of a puppy but it was not possible for me since I did not have a fence, the groups I spoke with would not even consider me and I did not try to lie since I knew they would check. How ever I also know many shelters and rescue groups just can't do home visits especially with so many people adopting pets through internet sites. I just met someone walking a very sweet mid size dog, you would have thought they were together forever, turns out he had just 2 days ago picked her up from an animal shelter in PA, he saw the dog on petfinder and drove from MI about 7 hours each way to see her. She was only a few days away from being put down. She was the sweetest dog and he was over the moon about her. Had they insisted on a home visit that sweet dog might not ever have gotten a home. It's a hard situation for you guys in rescue, I feel for you because I know you don't want to put a dog into another bad situation but sometimes so many strick rules keep them from finding good homes.

[nanahas3]

Originally Posted by NicoleNYC

I am not sure anymore haha. I thought Deb Siller's has a wonderful contract. Most breeders guarantee what she guarantees but only for a year (she has it for 5 years) so I really have no idea now. I jumped at the opportunity to have one of her pups but not I am hearing that her contract is ok so I don't know

I am so confused by this thread. Deb has a great reputation here from all I have read on this forum (which after 3 years is most of it lol) I would not hesitate to buy from her. But that is me. I commend you for your work in researching all of this. Wish I had done so before purchasing my Laddy, but even though he did come from an unreputable breeder he is a jewel now. That all being said I get confused most by people who want to bash a 5 year warranty from a reputable breeder. Anyway good luck with your search and maybe if you could talk to others who have bought from Deb it would help.

[DBlain]

Originally Posted by Teegy

a Canadian news program just did an investigation on Pet Habitat and PJ's Pets here in Canada which lead them back to the Hunte group in the US and then further back to Pennsylvania to the puppy mill.
The puppy mill woman said oh in regard to the particular dogs in question they have luxating patella issues but Hunte took them they just pay less for them.
It's a shame that people still view that puppy in the window as something to be saved and rescued from the evil puppy mills.
Hunte apparently at the time had 90,000 dogs and they just load and ship them in trucks.
The girl who bought from the pet store paid $2500 for the dog, Hunte paid the woman $200 for wonky knees instead of the full $400 for a "healthy puppy mill dog"

And the pet store charged $2,500.00 that is some profit margin!!!! I am always surprised that a consumer will pay that much in a pet store. Even when i did not know about the pet store puppy mill connection I could tell at a glance pet store dogs were overpriced compared to what breeders were selling dogs them for. You would think price alone would have killed their business.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by DBlain

I can't speak about any breeders on here since I have never bought from any, but on three separate occasions I did purchase 3 yorkies from show breeders. They claimed to be fussy about where the dogs went and asked a lot of questions but did not really know if I was telling the truth since they never paid me a visit. Perhaps if you are willing to pay $1,000.00 + for a dog they take for granted you must be OK. Also since so many are willing to ship dogs that would be an impossible task. My mind is conflicted if that is even practical, one time I drove 4 hours each way, I doubt a breeder would take the time to do that for each dog they sold. One time I thought about getting a yorkie rescue instead of a puppy but it was not possible for me since I did not have a fence, the groups I spoke with would not even consider me and I did not try to lie since I knew they would check. How ever I also know many shelters and rescue groups just can't do home visits especially with so many people adopting pets through internet sites. I just met someone walking a very sweet mid size dog, you would have thought they were together forever, turns out he had just 2 days ago picked her up from an animal shelter in PA, he saw the dog on petfinder and drove from MI about 7 hours each way to see her. She was only a few days away from being put down. She was the sweetest dog and he was over the moon about her. Had they insisted on a home visit that sweet dog might not ever have gotten a home. It's a hard situation for you guys in rescue, I feel for you because I know you don't want to put a dog into another bad situation but sometimes so many strick rules keep them from finding good homes.

OK...not sure you read my post very well. I said that we network to do home visits. Surely breeders have as many contacts as rescuers! I did not say they needed to travel all over the country to do home visits. As for shipping pups, I cannot condone that by anyone. Adopting on internet sites? That is what YHR does...and we don't have any problems being thorough.

Perhaps many shelters don't have the luxury of doing what I am talking about, but I do know of some that do....and while they may not be AS thorough, they do try. Rescues and breeders are just not exempt in my book....and especially not breeders. They should go the extra mile....after all they are bringing these pups into this world and making money off of them. I know..they all say there is no money in it , but let us not buy that story. There is no money if you do it correctly ... but the vast majority are making money! Why else would they do it over and over and over?

You speak as if you know the guidelines for placing rescue pups. I have seen other people say such things about fences...but honestly that is not a hard fast rule that we follow. There are no hard and fast rules of that nature...if you have a proven track record of caring for pups there is no reason to have to have a fence UNLESS it is a pup that needs to run a lot. We look for the best fit for the pup....if it fits the pup, it will fit the adopter. One thing that also needs to be mentioned here is that it is up to each rescue what rules they follow in terms of adoption.

And, as to your last statement...I would rather miss out on a good home than run the risk of placing a pup in a bad one. Stuff happens and yes, sometimes we may miss out on a good one....I would venture to say that is a rare thing, though.

Some pups are more difficult to place...depending on area and also depending on the condition of the pup. While they are in foster homes...if with YHR, they are in a good place even if they never get adopted. We check our foster homes out the same way we do our adopters. so...no reason to feel sorry for any pup that is on our website...he/she is getting great care! Some rescues have furever ours pups...we just don't do that because our philosophy is that there is a possible home for each of them. Sometimes people come along who really want a special needs pup.

I will end this by saying that I believe most breeders are not very careful...NOTE that I did not say ALL breeders. The vast numbers of purebred dogs in shelters and rescues would indicate that what I am saying is true. Sure..it takes a bit more time....but you know, if you are making money, why not invest time??? You certainly have to in other "professions".

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by nanahas3

I am so confused by this thread. Deb has a great reputation here from all I have read on this forum (which after 3 years is most of it lol) I would not hesitate to buy from her. But that is me. I commend you for your work in researching all of this. Wish I had done so before purchasing my Laddy, but even though he did come from an unreputable breeder he is a jewel now. That all being said I get confused most by people who want to bash a 5 year warranty from a reputable breeder. Anyway good luck with your search and maybe if you could talk to others who have bought from Deb it would help.

No one bashed Deb on this thread. This is not about her! I think that if you go back and read it thoroughly you will see that.

I have never heard a bad word about her and would never bash her.

[NicoleNYC]

Originally Posted by nanahas3

I am so confused by this thread. Deb has a great reputation here from all I have read on this forum (which after 3 years is most of it lol) I would not hesitate to buy from her. But that is me. I commend you for your work in researching all of this. Wish I had done so before purchasing my Laddy, but even though he did come from an unreputable breeder he is a jewel now. That all being said I get confused most by people who want to bash a 5 year warranty from a reputable breeder. Anyway good luck with your search and maybe if you could talk to others who have bought from Deb it would help.

I don't understand either! Deb seemed like she had a wonderful contract so not liking a 5 year contract is strange to me, but I suppose I see where everyone coming from. Nothing can be perfect though

[ladyjane]

Ok...so now I am confused. Oh well....

Bottom line, I did not bash anyone on this thread. I missed someone else doing it as well. Guess old age is doing me in.

[gracielove]

I think sometimes people think that because a person is involved in an industry that works with animals that the people are of course animal loves and advocates. Sadly, nothing could be farther from the truth. Veterinarians are human beings and can therefore be corrupted by the love of money. These puppy mills have to have a vet work with them in order to get health certificates. To cross state lines with these poor little victims they have to have the proper papers.

It sickens me to think of those 5 and 6 week old babies being stuffed in cages and driven around the country like so many chickens. They have thousands of them so the loss of a few before delivery is no big deal to them.

[kjc]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

Ok...so now I am confused. Oh well....

Bottom line, I did not bash anyone on this thread. I missed someone else doing it as well. Guess old age is doing me in.

Maybe this is what is being refered to:

Originally Posted by 107barney

Yes, I agree, the rest of her contract seems ok to me. But, I take issue with paragraph #1. Mostly because of the Leggs Perthes limitation since I have had experience with this. This is a very painful condition that will eventually cause my dog to go completely lame and require the head of his femur at the ball joint of his hip to need to be cut off. He will then have to hobble around for about 3 or 4 months while he heals scar tissue to create a false joint. Since the surgery can't be done until he goes lame (because he is already an adult), I have to wait. Sitting by and paying for consults w/ an orthopedic specialist every 6 months to assess my dog's gait, stature, movement, and objective measure of necropsy of his bone (dying of the bone) is emotionally draining. It's not fair to a dog who already has epilepsy. The cost of surgery for LCP is about $3,000 to $4,000 in the northeast when done by an ACVS surgeon.

I have to also say that the first paragraph only covering high grade LPs up to a year bothers me some as well. High grade LPs are almost NEVER the result of trauma, they are due to poor confirmation of the dog, which is a genetic issue. LP is a known genetic condition. Surgery can involve cutting deep into the tibial groove of the bone and making a wedge to take it out. Recovery is about 3 months, with full recovery taking longer. The price on that surgery is about $3,000 in the northeast, done by an ACVS surgeon when all is said and done.

With all this said, if I was interested in a breeder's dog, I would state and explain my issues with the contract. A reasonable breeder might consider this food for thought and would even edit the contract. I feel I am giving a dog the absolute best care that I can and remaining committed to my dogs NO MATTER WHAT. A reputable breeder would be trying to buy me as much as I would try to buy them.

Originally Posted by 107barney

The contract I had with my breeder guaranteed the dog's health without a time limit. I wouldn't sign the contact from AY because of the first paragraph only guaranteeing against Leggs Perthes for one year. My dog Teddy was diagnosed with Leggs Perthes at 2 years, 9 mos old. His breeder already stood by her contract when he was diagnosed with epilepsy at age two. One year guarantees against genetic defects don't impress me, and if AY edited that one word out I'd sign otherwise I would walk away. Sorry to say this but I've just spent too much money on theses issues to do it again and bear the whole responsibility emotionally.

Originally Posted by 107barney

The contract as it is written is what is included. When a buyer and a seller sign a contract, they are held to the terms of the contract as written in most cases. Therefore, it's important that you negotiate for the terms you want, so that there is a true meeting of the minds. Only then will you both be truly satisfied should something go wrong, and there won't be a need for battling it out later costing everyone time and money.

Genetic defects like Leggs Perthes, Hip Dysplasia and Patellar Luxations that are high grades IMO should be covered for longer than a year because these conditions might not manifest themselves until a little later as with my dog. If you want, give me your email and I'll show you Teddy's xray of his necrotic hip. My surgeon said that 95% of vets looking at his xray would expect a dog that is limping and lame, yet my Teddy runs around like an agility dog, taking leaps and bounds that would astound! Fact is, that seemingly normal running and playing is temporary, and the day will come, as sure as the sun will rise, when he needs to have surgery to cut off his femoral head.

She's covering other stuff up to 5 years, so why exclude these things since they are so painful, expensive to treat, and known to be genetic or congenital.

[kjc]

Originally Posted by NicoleNYC

I don't understand either! Deb seemed like she had a wonderful contract so not liking a 5 year contract is strange to me, but I suppose I see where everyone coming from. Nothing can be perfect though

Not everyone.

[megansmomma]

Originally Posted by kjc

Maybe this is what is being refered to:

This is bashing Now I'm confused....pretty big leap to call anything that you marked in bold in the bashing category. She is looking at the contract with a professional eye that you have not been train to do.

[107barney]

To the OP - I will not be back on your thread. Best wishes for finding the puppy of your dreams. I hope some of my thoughts have been helpful to you, despite how some people wish to distort them. Good luck.

[NicoleNYC]

Originally Posted by 107barney

To the OP - I will not be back on your thread. Best wishes for finding the puppy of your dreams. I hope some of my thoughts have been helpful to you, despite how some people wish to distort them. Good luck.

Thank you! I appreciate your help, along with everyone else's!

[megansmomma]

Originally Posted by NicoleNYC

I don't understand either! Deb seemed like she had a wonderful contract so not liking a 5 year contract is strange to me, but I suppose I see where everyone coming from. Nothing can be perfect though

I've been around YT for a long time and have never heard one negative thing about Deb Sillers and believe me MEGANSMOMMA would know

[kjc]

Originally Posted by megansmomma

This is bashing Now I'm confused....pretty big leap to call anything that you marked in bold in the bashing category. She is looking at the contract with a professional eye that you have not been train to do.

I didn't use the word 'bash'. Just putting anything someone was questioning in one place for further review... no offense intended...