SET Yorkies

[gracielove]

As it has been stated there is just no way that you can know for sure that you are buying a disease free and defect free pup. However, staying away from breeders whose claim to fame is how small their dogs are is a good start in the right direction. That type of breeder is not doing genetic testing and probably has no clue about what genetic issues were produced by the ancestors of their dogs. They are concentrating on size and not the total breed standard. Line breeding and in breeding is being done to attain a tiny dog but at the same time defective genes are being brought forward with every breeding. Those breeders are not investing money in testing and will not offer a contract that will attempt to treat you fairly. As others have stated many of the genetic issues that you could face are not obvious at 3 months or even 10 months of age so their contract is basically telling you that you have a live puppy. In the end you have to ask yourself if the breeder is going to be there for you if you do face some problem in the future.

I'm sure that those who breed for size have produced some puppies that were healthy but the odds of that happening continue to decrease as they spin the genetic roulette wheel. Personally, I would much rather buy from a breeder that is doing everything they can to produce a puppy that is genetically sound and as close to the breed standard as possible. It's not an easy thing to do and good breeders are watching others exploit the Yorkshire Terrier without regard to the long term health and soundness of the breed. I would find that heartbreaking. Wouldn't you rather support someone who is trying to improve the breed and who has sound and proven bloodlines than someone who is breeding for profit only?

[Teegy]

I think it's also important to build a relationship with your breeder. I certainly have as have friends of mine.
We are fortunate that they do boarding too, and if the need arose, I'd feel safe and secure leaving my dogs in her hands.
My friend and family just went on vacation and were completely at ease with the knowledge the dogs were well cared for.
I am perfectly in love with my dog who is perfect for me.
I think none of us, dogs or people are perfect, although the perfect Yorkie for me would be one who could help me with my laundry and dishes (wink wink).

[NicoleNYC]

Originally Posted by gracielove

As it has been stated there is just no way that you can know for sure that you are buying a disease free and defect free pup. However, staying away from breeders whose claim to fame is how small their dogs are is a good start in the right direction. That type of breeder is not doing genetic testing and probably has no clue about what genetic issues were produced by the ancestors of their dogs. They are concentrating on size and not the total breed standard. Line breeding and in breeding is being done to attain a tiny dog but at the same time defective genes are being brought forward with every breeding. Those breeders are not investing money in testing and will not offer a contract that will attempt to treat you fairly. As others have stated many of the genetic issues that you could face are not obvious at 3 months or even 10 months of age so their contract is basically telling you that you have a live puppy. In the end you have to ask yourself if the breeder is going to be there for you if you do face some problem in the future.

I'm sure that those who breed for size have produced some puppies that were healthy but the odds of that happening continue to decrease as they spin the genetic roulette wheel. Personally, I would much rather buy from a breeder that is doing everything they can to produce a puppy that is genetically sound and as close to the breed standard as possible. It's not an easy thing to do and good breeders are watching others exploit the Yorkshire Terrier without regard to the long term health and soundness of the breed. I would find that heartbreaking. Wouldn't you rather support someone who is trying to improve the breed and who has sound and proven bloodlines than someone who is breeding for profit only?

Of course, who wouldn't prefer to support a breeder that produces genetically sound puppies? At this point, I have two breeders that I am very interested in, both of which who are producing for improvement rather than size. I do not by any means want a tiny puppy, as I know they are just the runts of the litter. Both breeders have won competitions with their dogs, so I know that what they produce is definitely quality. I can not be 100% if the dogs are going to always be healthy, but I can at least be certain that the breeders know they are producing quality puppies, as they wouldn't have such a comprehensive contract if that weren't the case.

[NicoleNYC]

Originally Posted by Teegy

I think it's also important to build a relationship with your breeder. I certainly have as have friends of mine.
We are fortunate that they do boarding too, and if the need arose, I'd feel safe and secure leaving my dogs in her hands.
My friend and family just went on vacation and were completely at ease with the knowledge the dogs were well cared for.
I am perfectly in love with my dog who is perfect for me.
I think none of us, dogs or people are perfect, although the perfect Yorkie for me would be one who could help me with my laundry and dishes (wink wink).

Hahaha, wouldn't that be nice

[MyFairLacy]

Originally Posted by 107barney

.

Genetic defects like Leggs Perthes, Hip Dysplasia and Patellar Luxations that are high grades IMO should be covered for longer than a year because these conditions might not manifest themselves until a little later as with my dog.
She's covering other stuff up to 5 years, so why exclude these things since they are so painful, expensive to treat, and known to be genetic or congenital.

Actually legge perthes and luxating patellas will manifest before a year old if the condition is GENETIC. It is also possible to get these conditions due to injury, and that is why almost all breeders will limit legge perthes and luxating patellas to a year. If your dog hasn't shown signs and checks out fine before one year of age, then the only way that they will develop these conditions later will be due to injury. A breeder should not be responsible for these issues if it was in fact due to an injury.

I know Deb Sillers personally and highly recommend her. My show bitch, London, came from her and I have also shown another dog for her and finished his championship in only 2 1/2 months at a very young age. Health and soundness is EXTREMELY important to her. My London had her patellas OFA certified as normal just a couple of months ago. Her sire also has had his Hips OFA certified as Excellent. If anything ever did come up health-wise with your puppy, I can guarantee you that Deb would do whatever she could to make it right. Her lines are very healthy and sound though.

To the OP, feel free to contact me privately if you'd like. I believe that the 8 month old female you are interested in is actually my London's full sister (same mom and dad).

[ladyjane]

I just have to ask: Do all of the breeders who are on this forum and offering pups to individuals on this forum check the buyers out? I keep seeing where people post that someone offered them a puppy in PM and I don't see that there was an application process?
Just curious........

[TxVicki]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

I just have to ask: Do all of the breeders who are on this forum and offering pups to individuals on this forum check the buyers out? I keep seeing where people post that someone offered them a puppy in PM and I don't see that there was an application process?
Just curious........

[NicoleNYC]

Originally Posted by MyFairLacy

Actually legge perthes and luxating patellas will manifest before a year old if the condition is GENETIC. It is also possible to get these conditions due to injury, and that is why almost all breeders will limit legge perthes and luxating patellas to a year. If your dog hasn't shown signs and checks out fine before one year of age, then the only way that they will develop these conditions later will be due to injury. A breeder should not be responsible for these issues if it was in fact due to an injury.

I know Deb Sillers personally and highly recommend her. My show bitch, London, came from her and I have also shown another dog for her and finished his championship in only 2 1/2 months at a very young age. Health and soundness is EXTREMELY important to her. My London had her patellas OFA certified as normal just a couple of months ago. Her sire also has had his Hips OFA certified as Excellent. If anything ever did come up health-wise with your puppy, I can guarantee you that Deb would do whatever she could to make it right. Her lines are very healthy and sound though.

To the OP, feel free to contact me privately if you'd like. I believe that the 8 month old female you are interested in is actually my London's full sister (same mom and dad).

Thank you so much! I sent you a PM

[NicoleNYC]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

I just have to ask: Do all of the breeders who are on this forum and offering pups to individuals on this forum check the buyers out? I keep seeing where people post that someone offered them a puppy in PM and I don't see that there was an application process?
Just curious........

If you are asking in reference to me (as I assume you are, considering I stated something similar earlier in this thread) then yes, there is a process. She was simply messaging me to let me know that she had puppies available, that is not to say that I am exempt from the application process. Just like anyone else, if I decide that she is the breeder I want to go with, I too will have to speak to her and fill out her online application and at that time, she will determine whether or not she deems my household suitable.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by MyFairLacy

Actually legge perthes and luxating patellas will manifest before a year old if the condition is GENETIC. It is also possible to get these conditions due to injury, and that is why almost all breeders will limit legge perthes and luxating patellas to a year. If your dog hasn't shown signs and checks out fine before one year of age, then the only way that they will develop these conditions later will be due to injury. A breeder should not be responsible for these issues if it was in fact due to an injury.

I know Deb Sillers personally and highly recommend her. My show bitch, London, came from her and I have also shown another dog for her and finished his championship in only 2 1/2 months at a very young age. Health and soundness is EXTREMELY important to her. My London had her patellas OFA certified as normal just a couple of months ago. Her sire also has had his Hips OFA certified as Excellent. If anything ever did come up health-wise with your puppy, I can guarantee you that Deb would do whatever she could to make it right. Her lines are very healthy and sound though.

To the OP, feel free to contact me privately if you'd like. I believe that the 8 month old female you are interested in is actually my London's full sister (same mom and dad).

I am sorry, but that is simply not correct. There is so much information out there about this. It all depends upon the severity of it.....it may take longer than a year for it to show up. Certainly injury is a possibility as a cause....but let us face it, most are congenital and/or genetic.

[ladyjane]

Here is a quote from a site about it:

Medial Patella Luxation in Dogs - Page 1

MPL can occur as a result of trauma or develop during the first year of an animal's life. Congenital or developmental MPL is more common. It is most commonly found in a wide variety of small dogs such as poodles, Yorkshire terriers, Maltese and bichon frise, but it also occurs in larger breeds. Animals may present when they are young, during the first year of life, particularly if the abnormality is severe, or any time later in their life if the problem is lower grade and leads to a more progressive, chronic lameness.

[gemy]

Leggs Perthes as far as I am aware is always genetic. That is a necrotic femoral head due to insufficiency of the artery supplying blood flow. But that is not the only genetic condition vs a vs hips. You have ante and retro verted hips, you have a malformed femoral head, you have a acetabulum that is either too large or too small for the femoral head to fit into.

Luxating Patellas - such a shame with the small breeds. I agree that dual LP is highly probable as genetic problem what ever the grade. Single low grade LP is more suggestive of environmental factors.

What is important to me as an owner of a dog is to support research that guides us into best pet owner practices that help to avoid severe cases of LP or for that matter HD and ED.

What is important to me as a breeder is to support research to try to I.D. the polygenetic markers and to truly get a bloody genetic test for this. Baring that I can use Cluster Analysis, and line analysis to pick the best match for a sire/dam, that would offer the best chance of good boney structure along with all the other characteristics that typify this breed.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by NicoleNYC

If you are asking in reference to me (as I assume you are, considering I stated something similar earlier in this thread) then yes, there is a process. She was simply messaging me to let me know that she had puppies available, that is not to say that I am exempt from the application process. Just like anyone else, if I decide that she is the breeder I want to go with, I too will have to speak to her and fill out her online application and at that time, she will determine whether or not she deems my household suitable.

Yes, you and anyone else who all seem to get PMs all of the time on YT from breeders. I do wonder if they do reference checks.....home visits, etc.

I think that in addition to people checking out the breeders, the breeders need to check out the buyers.

This is nothing personal with anyone...it just seems to come up quite frequently and in what I do I see far too many yorkies ending up in rescue for ridiculous reasons that could have been avoided and often wonder how the people got them.

[107barney]

Originally Posted by MyFairLacy

Actually legge perthes and luxating patellas will manifest before a year old if the condition is GENETIC. It is also possible to get these conditions due to injury, and that is why almost all breeders will limit legge perthes and luxating patellas to a year. If your dog hasn't shown signs and checks out fine before one year of age, then the only way that they will develop these conditions later will be due to injury. A breeder should not be responsible for these issues if it was in fact due to an injury.

I know Deb Sillers personally and highly recommend her. My show bitch, London, came from her and I have also shown another dog for her and finished his championship in only 2 1/2 months at a very young age. Health and soundness is EXTREMELY important to her. My London had her patellas OFA certified as normal just a couple of months ago. Her sire also has had his Hips OFA certified as Excellent. If anything ever did come up health-wise with your puppy, I can guarantee you that Deb would do whatever she could to make it right. Her lines are very healthy and sound though.

To the OP, feel free to contact me privately if you'd like. I believe that the 8 month old female you are interested in is actually my London's full sister (same mom and dad).

Considering that there is no genetic marker yet identified for Leggs-Calves-Perthes disease, there is no way you can say that it will show up "if it is genetic" before one year of age. In fact, in my own dog who is plagued by LCP, there has been NO manifestation of the disease....a routine xray to rule out a stone showed the condition, shocking his vets. Although our surgeon has told us that the causation is yet to be determined, I certainly believe it is genetic, and have told his breeder about it. Certainly my dog has had no injury to cause his Leggs-Calves-Perthes disease, except when you talk to breeders and then it is almost always blame the victim. I wish it wasn't that way, it's just not supportive toward fellow owners and those who care for the dogs you all breed who unfortunately turn out disabled due to no fault of the owners.

As for patellar luxations, it's pretty clear that it is indeed genetic if it is a MEDIAL patellar luxation in a small breed. Taking this directly from the Orthopedic Foundation for Animals (and I'm sure you are familiar with that organization since you cited to it) --

"Although the luxation may not be present at birth, the anatomical deformities that cause these luxations are present at that time and are responsible for subsequent recurrent patellar luxation. Patellar luxation should be considered an inherited disease."

I really wish breeders would stop blaming GENETIC conditions on imaginary accidents. Just try your best, and offer emotional support and STAND BEHIND YOUR DOGS.....that's all owners really want of you.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by 107barney

I really wish breeders would stop blaming GENETIC conditions on imaginary accidents. Just try your best, and offer emotional support and STAND BEHIND YOUR DOGS.....that's all owners really want of you.