Is breeding a 11lb male with a 4lb female a No-No??

[megansmomma]

Originally Posted by gracielove

Your so right. Sadly at least one of the shelters in my area put the animals appointed to die in a decompression chamber that takes the air out of their lungs to cause death. Grizzly details of how the innocent suffer because of selfish and thoughtless people who would rather have the "fun" of having a litter of puppies rather than rescue at least one from such a horrible death.

Once again going back to my chipping idea.....fine you don't want to be responsible for the life you created. Here flip the switch and be responsible for the life that is taken. Maybe the next time you lay your head down at night you will have the vision of the death of a puppy that was allowed to be created for fun, experience, cash or whatever the lame reason that you felt the right and need to do will be remembered. This subject just riles me up beyond words.

[107barney]

Originally Posted by megansmomma

Once again going back to my chipping idea.....fine you don't want to be responsible for the life you created. Here flip the switch and be responsible for the life that is taken. Maybe the next time you lay your head down at night you will have the vision of the death of a puppy that was allowed to be created for fun, experience, cash or whatever the lame reason that you felt the right and need to do will be remembered. This subject just riles me up beyond words.

What happens when you call the # on the microchip and they are out of biz? The lady on Daisy's microchip is now breeding poodles from her mill in Missouri. Pretty sure she'd take Daisy out for a one way trip behind her outbuilding. The microchip is also a selling point for some. It all comes back to knowing your breeder I suppose.

People should ask to speak to dissatisfied customers as well when seeking a breeder so they have a full and fair disclosure.

[megansmomma]

Originally Posted by 107barney

Breeders should be responsible for every dog they breed. Beyond responsibility, though, should be some care as well. For example, if one of the puppies ends up as a dog w/ a disability, an ongoing concern or keeping touch with the owner might be nice. So that the breeder could be reminded of the lives that were affected by the breeding, in both a good way and a more challenged hard way. It makes one a stronger, better person to be able to do this. Just my thoughts.

This as well............if the breeder would just show support toward a family when this occurs it would be huge! It's not about financially being responsible as it is showing a moral responsibility to your puppy for its lifetime.

[megansmomma]

Originally Posted by 107barney

What happens when you call the # on the microchip and they are out of biz? The lady on Daisy's microchip is now breeding poodles from her mill in Missouri. Pretty sure she'd take Daisy out for a one way trip behind her outbuilding. The microchip is also a selling point for some. It all comes back to knowing your breeder I suppose.

People should ask to speak to dissatisfied customers as well when seeking a breeder so they have a full and fair disclosure.

Well, that is kind of my point in a round about way. When you purchased Daisy you had no way of checking her breeders history. Chipping would in the very least associate all of the millers sick animals and possibly bring awareness to the many sick animals she produces in the name of $$$$$. She wouldn't have been able to jump from sick Yorkies to sick Poodles allowing the cycle to continue. She would be put out of business or need to comply to basics in her breeding ethics. It would also make a pet shop selling puppies to think twice about purchasing from someone with a horrible reputation. Now they can just say they had no idea it was a mill or they didn't have knowledge of sick dogs. Chip the dog and there is a trail leading right back to the source. Vets would be able to scan the ship and add info to a data base linking the sick animals right back to the breeder. You need a license to drive a car as well as a registration to drive that car. When you run someone down on the sidewalk they trace the vehicle back to you and your held accountable for your actions. Why not the same for breeding? You breed sick dogs and the irresponsibility ends when they leave your property line and there is money in your hand? That's the exact reason there are so many sick puppies being brought into the world. Many of the mills are USDA registered and I think some laws seen to be established as part of entity.

[107barney]

Originally Posted by megansmomma

Well, that is kind of my point in a round about way. When you purchased Daisy you had no way of checking her breeders history. Chipping would in the very least associate all of the millers sick animals and possibly bring awareness to the many sick animals she produces in the name of $$$$$. She wouldn't have been able to jump from sick Yorkies to sick Poodles allowing the cycle to continue. She would be put out of business or need to comply to basics in her breeding ethics. It would also make a pet shop selling puppies to think twice about purchasing from someone with a horrible reputation. Now they can just say they had no idea it was a mill or they didn't have knowledge of sick dogs. Chip the dog and there is a trail leading right back to the source. Vets would be able to scan the ship and add info to a data base linking the sick animals right back to the breeder. You need a license to drive a car as well as a registration to drive that car. When you run someone down on the sidewalk they trace the vehicle back to you and your held accountable for your actions. Why not the same for breeding? You breed sick dogs and the irresponsibility ends when they leave your property line and there is money in your hand? That's the exact reason there are so many sick puppies being brought into the world. Many of the mills are USDA registered and I think some laws seen to be established as part of entity.

I didn't purchase Daisy. She was given to us by the petstore. So no matter where she was from, or who bred her, she was my dog. Daisy is one of the lucky ones for sure.

[yorkietalkjilly]

Originally Posted by megansmomma

Well, that is kind of my point in a round about way. When you purchased Daisy you had no way of checking her breeders history. Chipping would in the very least associate all of the millers sick animals and possibly bring awareness to the many sick animals she produces in the name of $$$$$. She wouldn't have been able to jump from sick Yorkies to sick Poodles allowing the cycle to continue. She would be put out of business or need to comply to basics in her breeding ethics. It would also make a pet shop selling puppies to think twice about purchasing from someone with a horrible reputation. Now they can just say they had no idea it was a mill or they didn't have knowledge of sick dogs. Chip the dog and there is a trail leading right back to the source. Vets would be able to scan the ship and add info to a data base linking the sick animals right back to the breeder. You need a license to drive a car as well as a registration to drive that car. When you run someone down on the sidewalk they trace the vehicle back to you and your held accountable for your actions. Why not the same for breeding? You breed sick dogs and the irresponsibility ends when they leave your property line and there is money in your hand? That's the exact reason there are so many sick puppies being brought into the world. Many of the mills are USDA registered and I think some laws seen to be established as part of entity.

Sounds like a very workable plan and makes more sense than the present state of things. Dog breeding and selling today seems a lot like the Wild West with far too few "John Wayne's".

[megansmomma]

Originally Posted by yorkietalkjilly

Sounds like a very workable plan and makes more sense than the present state of things. Dog breeding and selling today seems a lot like the Wild West with far too few "John Wayne's".

I really don't know if it's a workable idea, more like just my thoughts on how to curb something that has gone totally out of control. The undertaking of something like this would be huge.

[yorkietalkjilly]

But if over time the staffing, money and rules in place for building more and more shelters with their killing chambers is cost-shifted to a plan like this, it could work.

[gracielove]

Originally Posted by yorkietalkjilly

Oh, that sounds totally inhumane! The poor dogs in the chamber are having to try to fight to breathe until they have no more air???!!!! Why can't they give them the injection that puts them to sleep before they stop their hearts?

It's a county run shelter. They say it is quick and "humane." I don't agree with it and do not support them at all. Since politicians are the ones sending the major part of the dollars to support the place things just don't change. I'm sure it's much less expensive to kill them this way than with an injection. I afraid it is pretty common with most publicly run shelters.

[yorkietalkjilly]

Originally Posted by gracielove

It's a county run shelter. They say it is quick and "humane." I don't agree with it and do not support them at all. Since politicians are the ones sending the major part of the dollars to support the place things just don't change. I'm sure it's much less expensive to kill them this way than with an injection. I afraid it is pretty common with most publicly run shelters.

I just read some articles from Google on decompression chambers and am so sick to my stomach and horrified. The process sounds like a nightmare and even worse when it doesn't work first time around. When the county is desperately trying to aid families with no housing and food in these bad times, fewer tax dollars coming in and governments firing employees due to lack of funds, they go "cheap" for euthanasia but what the dogs go through in this process sounds inhumane and utterly barbaric. I am utterly ashamed of the way we as a country are treating our millions of unwanted dogs, the numbers of them climbing steadily due to the cavalier, uncaring attitudes of so many people and the whole largely unregulated system that is creating them.

[gracielove]

Originally Posted by yorkietalkjilly

I just read some articles from Google on decompression chambers and am so sick to my stomach and horrified. The process sounds like a nightmare and even worse when it doesn't work first time around. When the county is desperately trying to aid families with no housing and food in these bad times, fewer tax dollars coming in and governments firing employees due to lack of funds, they go "cheap" for euthanasia but what the dogs go through in this process sounds inhumane and utterly barbaric. I am utterly ashamed of the way we as a country are treating our millions of unwanted dogs, the numbers of them climbing steadily due to the cavalier, uncaring attitudes of so many people and the whole largely unregulated system that is creating them.

Exactly why I do get upset when people talk about having a "fun" litter of puppies. I also feel that there are enough people who do care about animals to organize together to help the animals if they wanted to. We have a privately run shelter in my area as well. They don't put down animals unless they have to and the vet who helps out at the shelter does it. The past two years the place has been full to capacity most of the time and has had to turn away animals many times. This shelter should be expanded. We need more donations. Fund raising is like pulling teeth anymore. Much of the industry and some of the business in this area have either gone under or moved out of the area. Many of those who would give the larger contributions are gone. Yes, the animals are the ones to suffer first and they are suffering greatly. It just sickens me to think of people who take producing more dogs so lightly because it is their "right."

[yorkietalkjilly]

Originally Posted by gracielove

Exactly why I do get upset when people talk about having a "fun" litter of puppies. I also feel that there are enough people who do care about animals to organize together to help the animals if they wanted to. We have a privately run shelter in my area as well. They don't put down animals unless they have to and the vet who helps out at the shelter does it. The past two years the place has been full to capacity most of the time and has had to turn away animals many times. This shelter should be expanded. We need more donations. Fund raising is like pulling teeth anymore. Much of the industry and some of the business in this area have either gone under or moved out of the area. Many of those who would give the larger contributions are gone. Yes, the animals are the ones to suffer first and they are suffering greatly. It just sickens me to think of people who take producing more dogs so lightly because it is their "right."

[bondai]

I guess when I entered into this discussion I was viewing the subject from a different time. I am a bit old school and I was raised in a rural setting, I even owned a dairy farm in Minnesota. We had dogs and cats and they had litters. I think the big difference was there was always a home for the puppies and kittens. The neighbors would hear you had a litter and they would come by and pick one out, the animals never wound up at a shelter, that was unheard of. It was not unusual for people to have 4 or 5 dogs running around on the farm and a bunch of cats. Come vet time it was a full day job to round them all up and contain them so they could get their shots and check up's, and yes we spayed and neutered some of our animals.

I guess when I made the comments about the breeding of animals it was from an earlier template, things have really changed and not for the better. I always knew there was an overpopulation problem but I had no idea it had reached such proportions. The number of animals that are put to death in this country every year is disgraceful.

I am against big government and I think they spend too much time with their noses in our business and their hands in our wallets but in this case it may be time for something to be done. I think the intervention needs to starts at the state level. The places where these puppy mills operate need to be reined in. They need to be licensed and there should be strict limits on how many dogs can be bred in a certain length of time, also all dogs sold should be spayed or neutered, no exceptions. With some work and a little common sense I think a lot of the problems could be handled at a local level. You have to make it a painful process to run a puppy mill. A lot of these pet stores have some answering up to do as well. Cleaning up the mess will have to start some where and it's going to be painful but things are out of control.

We have a moral obligation for the care of our animals and we as a nation are failing.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by bondai

I guess when I entered into this discussion I was viewing the subject from a different time. I am a bit old school and I was raised in a rural setting, I even owned a dairy farm in Minnesota. We had dogs and cats and they had litters. I think the big difference was there was always a home for the puppies and kittens. The neighbors would hear you had a litter and they would come by and pick one out, the animals never wound up at a shelter, that was unheard of. It was not unusual for people to have 4 or 5 dogs running around on the farm and a bunch of cats. Come vet time it was a full day job to round them all up and contain them so they could get their shots and check up's, and yes we spayed and neutered some of our animals.

I guess when I made the comments about the breeding of animals it was from an earlier template, things have really changed and not for the better. I always knew there was an overpopulation problem but I had no idea it had reached such proportions. The number of animals that are put to death in this country every year is disgraceful.

I am against big government and I think they spend too much time with their noses in our business and their hands in our wallets but in this case it may be time for something to be done. I think the intervention needs to starts at the state level. The places where these puppy mills operate need to be reined in. They need to be licensed and there should be strict limits on how many dogs can be bred in a certain length of time, also all dogs sold should be spayed or neutered, no exceptions. With some work and a little common sense I think a lot of the problems could be handled at a local level. You have to make it a painful process to run a puppy mill. A lot of these pet stores have some answering up to do as well. Cleaning up the mess will have to start some where and it's going to be painful but things are out of control.

We have a moral obligation for the care of our animals and we as a nation are failing.

Wow, how refreshing it is to read that someone has kept an open mind about all this and realized things are different now than they use to be. I totally agree with you that we have a moral obligation for the care of these animals, our own pets give us so much pleasure, we should all fight on behalf of their "brothers and sisters." Welcome aboard!

[yorkietalkjilly]

Originally Posted by bondai

I guess when I entered into this discussion I was viewing the subject from a different time. I am a bit old school and I was raised in a rural setting, I even owned a dairy farm in Minnesota. We had dogs and cats and they had litters. I think the big difference was there was always a home for the puppies and kittens. The neighbors would hear you had a litter and they would come by and pick one out, the animals never wound up at a shelter, that was unheard of. It was not unusual for people to have 4 or 5 dogs running around on the farm and a bunch of cats. Come vet time it was a full day job to round them all up and contain them so they could get their shots and check up's, and yes we spayed and neutered some of our animals.

I guess when I made the comments about the breeding of animals it was from an earlier template, things have really changed and not for the better. I always knew there was an overpopulation problem but I had no idea it had reached such proportions. The number of animals that are put to death in this country every year is disgraceful.

I am against big government and I think they spend too much time with their noses in our business and their hands in our wallets but in this case it may be time for something to be done. I think the intervention needs to starts at the state level. The places where these puppy mills operate need to be reined in. They need to be licensed and there should be strict limits on how many dogs can be bred in a certain length of time, also all dogs sold should be spayed or neutered, no exceptions. With some work and a little common sense I think a lot of the problems could be handled at a local level. You have to make it a painful process to run a puppy mill. A lot of these pet stores have some answering up to do as well. Cleaning up the mess will have to start some where and it's going to be painful but things are out of control.

We have a moral obligation for the care of our animals and we as a nation are failing.

Wonderfully said and agree 100%. All but a few of us came into the same realization as you have and were stunned to find out bad things had gotten. Hopefully, slowly, things will begin to change as more and more of us learn more about what is happening to our poor dogs as a result of the questionable breeding ethics and practices of so many.