Is breeding a 11lb male with a 4lb female a No-No??

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by bondai

And who makes the decision of who is a reputable breeder?

I suppose each person but there is certain things that I listed that make a reputable breeder a reputable breeder.

[bondai]

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

I suppose each person but there is certain things that I listed that make a reputable breeder a reputable breeder.

We obviously can't trust people to control themselves, do we enter into the slippery slope where we pass legislation to control the breeding of dogs and cats? We already have laws that control the ownership of some breeds. In some states pit bulls are euthanized 100% no questions asked.

[bondai]

Originally Posted by yorkietalkjilly

If we keep killing so many dogs each year in shelters, we may have to legislate something like this, including strict licensing of breeders, limiting dog ownership and requiring contracts by law. I would rather my tax dollars go for that than shelters that wind up killing the majority of dogs they house. Limitless breeding by any and all is producing more dogs than the population is able to responsibly handle. Nations that must kill millions of dogs each year need to regulate breeding since people often won't regulate themselves at all. Indiscriminate breeding of dogs by any and all amateurs who give away or sell dogs to anyone when hundreds or thousands of dogs are getting the needle every day makes no sense whatsoever to me. And our tax dollars are paying for the excessive breeding practices by having to support the shelters and buy the tools to kill the very animal so many say they love. Why in the world anybody who is not a reputable and responsible breeder would add to this worldwide horror is beyond me.

Slippery slope.

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by bondai

We obviously can't trust people to control themselves, do we enter into the slippery slope where we pass legislation to control the breeding of dogs and cats? We already have laws that control the ownership of some breeds. In some states pit bulls are euthanized 100% no questions asked.

If we can get someone to do it who actually knows about dogs and breeding then I would say yes but if its someone who doesn't care then its not really gonna work.

[megansmomma]

Originally Posted by gracielove

Yes, people have a right to breed their dog. So far. More and more laws are being made to try to contain the rampant increase of dog and cat populations. If a person wants a dog they should go to the pound and save a dog's life. If they can't jump through the "hoops" of being required to get the animal spayed or neutered and paying a fee to help with the financial upkeep of the shelter then they have no business having a dog. I see by a previous comment you made that you don't believe a person should be required to neuter their dog. People have a "right" to do a lot of things that are harmful to society. They have a right to drop out of school at the age of 16 or have babies when they are 15. No one can stop them. But it puts an added burden on the people in society that do what is responsible like finish their educations and earn a decent living. You can breed you dog but you are part of the problem not part of the solution to the overwhelming animal population.

My thought has always been that every puppy should be microchipped to the breeder to enable a trackback. If the puppy end up dumped at the local shelter weeks, months or years later from abuse, neglect or abandonment the breeder could contacted. This would in turn make the breeder accountable for the life they created. Accountability might include being responsible for rehoming, paying a fee to animal control to rehome (including spay or neuter) or keeping the dog. IMO this might make breeders (one time, BYBer and puppymills all included) consider the future of the puppies they feel the right and need to bring into this world and be held accountable for this right. Of course, this would not be an effective control to all breeders but it sure would make those selling puppies online and commercially accountable. Breeding should be considered a privilege that is earned and not a right. Your right would need to be earned by their responsible actions after they collect the money from the new owners. It should not end when the cash goes into their greedy pocket while living off the profits.

There are plenty of breeders that have it written into their puppy contract this very idea. Those are the ones that IMO should fall into the reputable category and whom I would give my money to when purchasing a puppy. It's also basic rehoming agreement with animal shelters and rescues as well. So why not make the millers and BYBer live by this rule as well? When I adopted Doodlebug and Bogey I signed a contract and agreed to contact the rescue and shelter they were adopted from if it ever there came a time that I was not able to properly care for my dogs. Pebbles on the other hand was purchased from a BYBer without such a contract. Her previous owner (my friend) rehomed her to me a 5 months. The breeder has no idea the she is no longer living with the family she was sold to 5 years ago. With her temperament and lack of socialization as a puppy Pebbles could easily have been a statistic in a kill shelter. Even as a puppy she guarded her food and toy which would have classified her as a biter which most likely would have been a death sentence. Maybe if this BYBer were to have been called on her irresponsible breeding practices she would think twice about her actions.

[gracielove]

I don't support government regulating a lot of things. However, when people insist on behaving irresponsibly causing a burden to the general public or mass destruction and suffering then the government has to step in and do something. It is the responsibility of local government to regulate matters that are causing increasing tax burden or threatening the health, safety or sanitation of the area.

Because of people who feel they are above acting responsibly laws are going to be made in many areas regulating the breeding of animals. It has already started. Unfortunately, it is going to hurt some the people who are actually trying to improve purebred lines. People who rescue animals or who just love their pets will also be effected. In the past people who owned their own homes were able to have the number of pets they felt they could comfortably support but now they are limited in the number of pets they can own by their local government ordinances.

Local governments are hard pressed by economic downturns and supporting local shelters is last on the list of things they want to spend tax dollars on. The result being that animals that may have found homes in the past are now systematically put to death. Even putting these dogs to death costs money. In order to limit the continued burden on the local government county and city councils are passing laws to limit the breeding and ownership of animals. Instead of self regulation even the innocent pet lover is subjected to government regulation. It's always the irresponsible people that ruin things for everyone else.

[carmen in nj]

Originally Posted by megansmomma

My thought has always been that every puppy should be microchipped to the breeder to enable a trackback. If the puppy end up dumped at the local shelter weeks, months or years later from abuse, neglect or abandonment the breeder could contacted. This would in turn make the breeder accountable for the life they created. Accountability might include being responsible for rehoming, paying a fee to animal control to rehome (including spay or neuter) or keeping the dog. IMO this might make breeders (one time, BYBer and puppymills all included) consider the future of the puppies they feel the right and need to bring into this world and be held accountable for this right. Of course, this would not be an effective control to all breeders but it sure would make those selling puppies online and commercially accountable. Breeding should be considered a privilege that is earned and not a right. Your right would need to be earned by their responsible actions after they collect the money from the new owners. It should not end when the cash goes into their greedy pocket while living off the profits.

There are plenty of breeders that have it written into their puppy contract this very idea. Those are the ones that IMO should fall into the reputable category and whom I would give my money to when purchasing a puppy. It's also basic rehoming agreement with animal shelters and rescues as well. So why not make the millers and BYBer live by this rule as well? When I adopted Doodlebug and Bogey I signed a contract and agreed to contact the rescue and shelter they were adopted from if it ever there came a time that I was not able to properly care for my dogs. Pebbles on the other hand was purchased from a BYBer without such a contract. Her previous owner (my friend) rehomed her to me a 5 months. The breeder has no idea the she is no longer living with the family she was sold to 5 years ago. With her temperament and lack of socialization as a puppy Pebbles could easily have been a statistic in a kill shelter. Even as a puppy she guarded her food and toy which would have classified her as a biter which most likely would have been a death sentence. Maybe if this BYBer were to have been called on her irresponsible breeding practices she would think twice about her actions.

My puppies are ALL microchiped before they leave my home, and I state in my contract that I MUST be added as the second contact in the microchip registry. I also have an OPEN DOOR policy for my puppies, any time any reason, I don't care you let me know and I will pick up my dog. Breeders should be responsible for Every dog they breed..

[yorkietalkjilly]

Slippery slope - too simple and far too casual a statement to cover the disgrace of continuing killing 6 - 8 million dogs a year. Isn't the fact that thousands of dogs a day have to get up on a table and die alone because we humans don't want to stop our casual excessive breeding and dog-purchasing practices far too slippery a slope? Are we moral when we say "Oh, I don't want to lose MY rights to own or breed a dog because I might not meet a simple standard for dog ownership" though I fully understand that, to keep those rights, the price the dogs are paying is dying in the thousands every single day(some say it averages 20,000 a day - whatever the math is daily it is yearly marching upward to 10,000,000).

And almost every single time any society tries to take some baby steps to right a great wrong, someone utters slippery slope. Well, the dogs have been on that slope for decades and falling faster and faster as the shelter worker has to lead more and more of them to the little room in the back every single day.

That is why forums like this one work so hard to try to discourage any and all that want to to breed whatever dogs whenever the spirit moves them. If we the people will educate and regulate ourselves, no legislative body will ever need to become involved. If we don't, one day we will be just like China.

[megansmomma]

Originally Posted by carmen in nj

My puppies are ALL microchiped before they leave my home, and I state in my contract that I MUST be added as the second contact in the microchip registry. I also have an OPEN DOOR policy for my puppies, any time any reason, I don't care you let me know and I will pick up my dog. Breeders should be responsible for Every dog they breed..

That's because you care about the welfare of your puppies past the second they walk out your door. It should be that way with EVERY SINGLE puppy that is brought into this world. If breeders were held accountable for their breeding ethics or lack there for our shelters would not be overflowing with unwanted animals!

Thank you for falling into the category of being responsible for your breeding.

[gracielove]

Originally Posted by yorkietalkjilly

Slippery slope - too simple and far too casual a statement to cover the disgrace of continuing killing 6 - 8 million dogs a year. Isn't the fact that thousands of dogs a day have to get up on a table and die alone because we humans don't want to stop our casual excessive breeding and dog-purchasing practices far too slippery a slope? Are we moral when we say "Oh, I don't want to lose MY rights to own or breed a dog because I might not meet a simple standard for dog ownership" though I fully understand that, to keep those rights, the price the dogs are paying is dying in the thousands every single day(some say it averages 20,000 a day - whatever the math is daily it is yearly marching upward to 10,000,000).

And almost every single time any society tries to take some baby steps to right a great wrong, someone utters slippery slope. Well, the dogs have been on that slope for decades and falling faster and faster as the shelter worker has to lead more and more of them to the little room in the back every single day.

That is why forums like this one work so hard to try to discourage any and all that want to to breed whatever dogs whenever the spirit moves them. If we the people will educate and regulate ourselves, no legislative body will ever need to become involved. If we don't, one day we will be just like China.

Your so right. Sadly at least one of the shelters in my area put the animals appointed to die in a decompression chamber that takes the air out of their lungs to cause death. Grizzly details of how the innocent suffer because of selfish and thoughtless people who would rather have the "fun" of having a litter of puppies rather than rescue at least one from such a horrible death.

[yorkietalkjilly]

Originally Posted by bondai

We obviously can't trust people to control themselves, do we enter into the slippery slope where we pass legislation to control the breeding of dogs and cats? We already have laws that control the ownership of some breeds. In some states pit bulls are euthanized 100% no questions asked.

That is why we have all got to work to try to educate people and change attitudes about indiscriminate dog breeding and placing dogs with anyone who will take or buy one, because if we don't, you know one day the state will step in and do it for us. And none of us want to see that.

[107barney]

Originally Posted by carmen in nj

My puppies are ALL microchiped before they leave my home, and I state in my contract that I MUST be added as the second contact in the microchip registry. I also have an OPEN DOOR policy for my puppies, any time any reason, I don't care you let me know and I will pick up my dog. Breeders should be responsible for Every dog they breed..

Breeders should be responsible for every dog they breed. Beyond responsibility, though, should be some care as well. For example, if one of the puppies ends up as a dog w/ a disability, an ongoing concern or keeping touch with the owner might be nice. So that the breeder could be reminded of the lives that were affected by the breeding, in both a good way and a more challenged hard way. It makes one a stronger, better person to be able to do this. Just my thoughts.

[yorkietalkjilly]

Originally Posted by gracielove

Your so right. Sadly at least one of the shelters in my area put the animals appointed to die in a decompression chamber that takes the air out of their lungs to cause death. Grizzly details of how the innocent suffer because of selfish and thoughtless people who would rather have the "fun" of having a litter of puppies rather than rescue at least one from such a horrible death.

Oh, that sounds totally inhumane! The poor dogs in the chamber are having to try to fight to breathe until they have no more air???!!!! Why can't they give them the injection that puts them to sleep before they stop their hearts?

[KendraE]

Originally Posted by yorkietalkjilly

Slippery slope - too simple and far too casual a statement to cover the disgrace of continuing killing 6 - 8 million dogs a year. Isn't the fact that thousands of dogs a day have to get up on a table and die alone because we humans don't want to stop our casual excessive breeding and dog-purchasing practices far too slippery a slope? Are we moral when we say "Oh, I don't want to lose MY rights to own or breed a dog because I might not meet a simple standard for dog ownership" though I fully understand that, to keep those rights, the price the dogs are paying is dying in the thousands every single day(some say it averages 20,000 a day - whatever the math is daily it is yearly marching upward to 10,000,000).

And almost every single time any society tries to take some baby steps to right a great wrong, someone utters slippery slope. Well, the dogs have been on that slope for decades and falling faster and faster as the shelter worker has to lead more and more of them to the little room in the back every single day.

That is why forums like this one work so hard to try to discourage any and all that want to to breed whatever dogs whenever the spirit moves them. If we the people will educate and regulate ourselves, no legislative body will ever need to become involved. If we don't, one day we will be just like China.

[Ringo1]

Originally Posted by yorkietalkjilly

Slippery slope - too simple and far too casual a statement to cover the disgrace of continuing killing 6 - 8 million dogs a year. Isn't the fact that thousands of dogs a day have to get up on a table and die alone because we humans don't want to stop our casual excessive breeding and dog-purchasing practices far too slippery a slope? Are we moral when we say "Oh, I don't want to lose MY rights to own or breed a dog because I might not meet a simple standard for dog ownership" though I fully understand that, to keep those rights, the price the dogs are paying is dying in the thousands every single day(some say it averages 20,000 a day - whatever the math is daily it is yearly marching upward to 10,000,000).

And almost every single time any society tries to take some baby steps to right a great wrong, someone utters slippery slope. Well, the dogs have been on that slope for decades and falling faster and faster as the shelter worker has to lead more and more of them to the little room in the back every single day.

That is why forums like this one work so hard to try to discourage any and all that want to to breed whatever dogs whenever the spirit moves them. If we the people will educate and regulate ourselves, no legislative body will ever need to become involved. If we don't, one day we will be just like China.

I wish I could be so eloquent ~ but this is exactly how I feel.