As Not To Hi-Jack anothers thread

[bchgirl]

Originally Posted by Dixies Mom

Excellent!!! Thank you.
Now what about the other colors? Golden? Chocolate? These are specific colors. Are there markers for them?

You sure have a lotta faith in me. lol.

My understanding is those colors are mutations. I don't know if markers have been found for these specifically but some color mutation markers have been identified.

This professor is an expert in color coat genetics. You may wish to contact her. I can tell you the specific marker for the piebald. I do not know the answer for chocolate or golden.

University of Saskatchewan College of Agriculture and Bioresources - Find People

Biewers have participated in several color coat studies she's conducted.

Some "light" reading...lol.

Genetic Research in the Schmutz Lab

[Dixies Mom]

Originally Posted by bchgirl

You sure have a lotta faith in me. lol.

My understanding is those colors are mutations. I don't know if markers have been found for these specifically but some color mutation markers have been identified.

This professor is an expert in color coat genetics. You may wish to contact her. I can tell you the specific marker for the piebald. I do not know the answer for chocolate or golden.

University of Saskatchewan College of Agriculture and Bioresources - Find People

Biewers have participated in several color coat studies she's conducted.



Some "light" reading...lol.

Genetic Research in the Schmutz Lab

You are taking the time and I appreciate it!

The Panda was also a mutated gene therefore, with proper research, each
"assorted color" for the "yorkie" should be able to be identified and proven to be legitamate.
I guess my next question is...How do we know there's nothing but "yorkie" in the 'wood pile' LOL. Should all of these litters be DNA'd?

[bchgirl]

It was your comment regarding your shepard and it's lack of the panda gene that told me it was the mode of inheritance.

Chocolates and goldens are just considered color anomalies....nothing but yorkie in those "wood piles".

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by Dixies Mom

Thank you...I have seen advertisements that have stated "Carries the Gold Gene" I was just wondering how they know that.
My "Son"...A traditional Black and Red Shepherd who's mother was a Panda, has been DNA does not carry the "Panda Gene". He is also not called a "splitter" LOL

You know they carry a gold gene if one parent is gold, the same as the parti. Although the gold does seem to pop up more often. I believe that more yorkies carry the gold gene. if you breed two golds together it is my understanding that you will get all gold puppies just like with the parti gene.

[bchgirl]

The genetic marker for goldens and chocolates can be found here....do not be confused by the name of a particular color...it encompasses a variety of colors.

http://homepage.usask.ca/~schmutz/do...own.html#brown

And yes there are dna tests available.

[Furbaby Friend]

Originally Posted by bchgirl

The genetic marker for goldens and chocolates can be found here....do not be confused by the name of a particular color...it encompasses a variety of colors.

http://homepage.usask.ca/~schmutz/dogredbrown.html#brown

And yes there are dna tests available.

Just to clarify, I remember reading in another thread, where an owner wanted to DNA test to see what their mix was made up of, that DNA testing in dogs is not reliable and not worth the money? Are these tests different and actually accurate? It would be really neat if science advanced and figured it out!

[yorkiegirl2]

It’s mainly that genes and genetic that have been lock in to the dogs very early in history. We can not just look at the founding dogs and say this is where it all started because one also has to look at the dogs who were behind those dogs used in created the founding dogs and the influences (genes and genetic) they brought into play.
If you look at the early founding dogs and the dogs of today they look a lot different.
But you also see the influences from those early dogs that keep popping up when you see a dropped ears, longer ears, longer body, a red leg, different coat textures and the different colors.
Some of these traits remind me of the Skye’s .
The Skye’s also carried a lot of different colors blue, black, white, tan/cream chocolate so it would seem that this maybe where the blond/golden and chocolate colors came from.

The Red Leg is another one who seems to revert back to the English terrier with the grizzly backs/wiry hair.

White spots on some of today’s newborn pups came from where ?
Well it have been stated that most English Terriers had white markings.
Just how much white these dogs carried I don’t know but these dog had other dogs in the back ground to produce those white marking.

And nobody seen to know for sure where the Clydesdale/ Paisley terrier came from or who is in his back ground but one thing is certain this dog did just drop out of the sky.

And yes if you start looking back at some of the dogs thought to be in the makeup of the breed, by looking at each dogs individual histories you will find Tri colored dogs.

And it would seems that after 163 years, those initial genes should have disappeared or been diluted; apparently, they did not disappear because we still see them in some of the dogs today.

Also the same can be said about the health genetic we see today with the dogs.
Some canine experts believe our purebred dogs are locked in a genetic trap due to the evolutionary and hereditary process. What does it all mean? It means that after so many years it is difficult to eliminate influences of breeds used in early foundation stock. Why? Well, it could be argued that at the beginning all were somewhat inbred, as any given breed would have a relatively small member of founding sire.

[Breezeaway]

Originally Posted by Dixies Mom

You are taking the time and I appreciate it!

The Panda was also a mutated gene therefore, with proper research, each
"assorted color" for the "yorkie" should be able to be identified and proven to be legitimate.
I guess my next question is...How do we know there's nothing but "yorkie" in the 'wood pile' LOL. Should all of these litters be DNA'd?

I am not sure what your getting at or trying to say by saying legitimate.
A color does not make a breed legitimate, you cannot determine what breed it is just by color testing.
There is a DNA parentage test and a DNA breed identification test.

[Furbaby Friend]

Originally Posted by Breezeaway

I am not sure what your getting at or trying to say by saying legitimate.
A color does not make a breed legitimate, you cannot determine what breed it is just by color testing.
There is a DNA parentage test and a DNA breed identification test.

See my post above.

Are the ones for the tracing of mixes not accurate because they are different from these DNA tests? Or are there problems with all DNA testing in dogs and they aren't super accurate yet? I think it would be neat if people could find out what their dogs are made up from when they get them from shelters and stuff. It would make it easier to look for potential health problems, temperament, size etc.

[Breezeaway]

I imagine one would have to decide for themselves if they believe them to be accurate or not.
DNA Canine Breed Identification

[Furbaby Friend]

Originally Posted by Breezeaway

I imagine one would have to decide for themselves if they believe them to be accurate or not.
DNA Canine Breed Identification

Thanks for the link! I'll do some reading before school starts and all I get to read is textbooks that have nothing to do with cute fuzzy animals

[bchgirl]

Originally Posted by Furbaby Friend

Just to clarify, I remember reading in another thread, where an owner wanted to DNA test to see what their mix was made up of, that DNA testing in dogs is not reliable and not worth the money? Are these tests different and actually accurate? It would be really neat if science advanced and figured it out!

Entirely different type of test. There are not genetic markers available for every breed...so if you have a dog with an un-known marker...the test wouldn't give you an accurate result. Plus the fact many of the strains of dna vary so slightly from breed to breed...the data is easily mis-read.

There are genetic markers for coat color and these are the markers the OP was interested in.

The only way to definitively know a dog/pup is carrier of a particular color....such as some ads say....would be to dna the dog for that specific gene and that was the OP's question.

[Furbaby Friend]

Originally Posted by bchgirl

Entirely different type of test. There are not genetic markers available for every breed...so if you have a dog with an un-known marker...the test wouldn't give you an accurate result. Plus the fact many of the strains of dna vary so slightly from breed to breed...the data is easily mis-read.

There are genetic markers for coat color and these are the markers the OP was interested in.

The only way to definitively know a dog/pup is carrier of a particular color....such as some ads say....would be to dna the dog for that specific gene and that was the OP's question.

Thanks! I don't know much about genetics. I suspected it might be a different test, which is why I asked. I just read on another thread that for the mix, the tests weren't worth the money because they may not be accurate. I can see how it would be easier to ID a specific gene in dogs from known sources.

I know you answered the OP question, but I figured since you seemed to know more genetics than I do (which is next to nothing) I would try asking mine and see if the problem pertained to all DNA tests in dogs. Thank you for clarifying that the tests/results are different! So much for IDing my aunt's mix

[Pinehaven]

Originally Posted by Dixies Mom

Even though a thread I have been reading and even posted on is going in this direction, I decided to start the topic here and hopefully get an answer to this question...

Has research of the Parti isolated what has come to be known as the "Parti Gene"? What about in the other colors coming out, the Golden Gene, the Chocolate Gene?
When a breeder states their puppies carry the parti gene, do they DNA each dog to prove it?

Well, if one parent is a parti, chocloate or clear coated golden, their puppies will be carriers because the colorful parent has two copies of their colorful gene and will pass on one of their colorful genes to all it's offspring. But I've seen people say their puppies carry for "such and such gene" because their grandsire was "such and such" ... I don't know if it's just a dishonest sale pitch or an uneducated breeder who doesn't understand how genetics works? That's where coat color testing can be helpful.

There are labs who DNA for certain coat colors in dogs but I don't know of any who have a test for parti gene yet. Below are a few tests that could be used for the colors we see in our yorkies.

A locus- “Ay” (Fawn, Sable) some of our goldens have sable markings
B locus- “b” (Brown, Liver, Chocolate) - chocloate colored
E locus- “e” (Yellow, Red) - clear coated goldens and blondes

VetGen: Veterinary Genetic Services - Canine - List of Services - Coat Color

I ordered a DNA coat color kit a few days ago to see if my sable golden carries a recessive E locus (e), his mother has produced clear coated goldens so he has a 50% chance of carrying a recessive "e". If he does not have a recessive "e", he will never produce a clear coated golden or blonde puppy, no matter to who he's bred to. Clear coated blondes and golds are "ee" in make up and need a recessive "e" from both parents.

Parti and chocolate are pretty easy to understand but I think there are a couple of different genes that cause the golden coloring.

[Dixies Mom]

Why are there so many Parti's? When seaching the internet, they are everywhere.
When did the Parti come to view? I am very sceptical as to "some" of these breeders dogs being legitamate Yorkshire Terriers, just on LOOKS alone.
I have had pups born with white on their chest. I would never sale these puppies as Parti carriers but I see this all the time. I also see people selling dogs with a Golden or Chocolate gene. If the Gene is present in the dog, DNA can authinticate it correct?

Another question...If AKC is so sure of the Parti, why are they not a separtate catagory as are other dogs of the same breed but different color?
Is it not possible for a vet to take a blood sample and send it to a lab for DNA and Breed analysis?