parti changing from white to blue

[QuickSilver]

Originally Posted by Woogie Man

I think the easiest way to tell if a coat is silk, other than appearance, is that it feels cool to the touch.

The term 'silk' means so many different things to different people and is referred to differently. I've heard of modified silk, hard silk, soft silk, warm silk and cool silk.

I like the term 'cool silk'. It's the most accurate to me in describing an ideal coat texture. I don't think it has the cool feel unless all the attributes of a silk coat are there.

But then, I could be totally wrong....., but just going by my experience so far.

Wouldn't a thin silk coat feel the same as a thick silk coat, though? Wouldn't they both feel cool?




Is the word "silk" starting to look strange to anyone else?

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

Not a problem Donna. I am learning. it appears that there is no answer to my question anyway.

I do believe there is an answer, curly hair is dominant. Can you find one site that says it isn't? Here another link on canine genetics. http://diamonddoxies.com/Canine_genes.doc

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by QuickSilver

Thor's roots always look much darker than the color even half an inch out. I used to always get my hopes up too, but he's determined to stay blond. Speaking strictly as an amateur, I decided that the hair at the roots must look darker as some trick of the light.

I am not sure what's going one with Thor, though I've heard reference to a blue dilution gene.

Good one. I'm going to use that to explain my grey roots. it's just a trick of the light.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by peanut

Sorry Jeanie, I guess I started something when I said hard silk, which I have heard it meaning pure silk, not modified or cotton coat, but now that I know there are different silks, I will be careful not to say that again. I think your girl is beautiful.

Thanks

I've learned a lot from this discussion.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by Woogie Man

I think the easiest way to tell if a coat is silk, other than appearance, is that it feels cool to the touch.

The term 'silk' means so many different things to different people and is referred to differently. I've heard of modified silk, hard silk, soft silk, warm silk and cool silk.

I like the term 'cool silk'. It's the most accurate to me in describing an ideal coat texture. I don't think it has the cool feel unless all the attributes of a silk coat are there.

But then, I could be totally wrong....., but just going by my experience so far.

You are right......with one addition...the silk coat reflects light.......Even in the dark.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

Many of the old breeders had dogs that most pet owners wouldn't even want. If you look at the earlier pictures, the yorkie has evolved very gradually into the dog it is today. Early breeders worked very hard to rid their lines of these faults. If you just want to say, "Oh show breeders cheat, so therefore why should I do things the right way", you will never be improving your program. Many people have told me they are really trying to improve their programs, not make excuses and blaming others.

That was not the point of my statement. The point was that without the modern grooming equipment and products, some dogs might not look like they do when they are groomed for showing.

They didn't have all the products and equipment that they use today. But those were the ancestors of todays champions.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

That was not the point of my statement. The point was that without the modern grooming equipment and products, some dogs might not look like they do when they are groomed for showing.

They didn't have all the products and equipment that they use today. But those were the ancestors of todays champions.

Okay, but you must admit, its posted all the time here, I guess as a way of justifing their own breeding programs. I'm glad that you weren't doing this.

[Woogie Man]

Originally Posted by QuickSilver

Wouldn't a thin silk coat feel the same as a thick silk coat, though? Wouldn't they both feel cool?




Is the word "silk" starting to look strange to anyone else?

"Silk" can be a confusing term...that's for sure.

My dog with the best coat is Darla. It's neither noticeably thick nor thin.

I remember reading somewhere that the reflectivity, texture and coolness both come from the shape of the hair shaft. I do think there are varying degrees of silkiness...from somewhat silky all the way up to the ideal. Which leads me to believe that the genes controlling this aren't so simple as dominant/recessive.

[QuickSilver]

Let me ask this: can we say we are discussing four qualities here?

Silkiness: As a non-expert, I would classify this as the hair's reflectiveness. Other characteristics are lack of matting and coolness to touch. Thor is *extremely* silky. His coat actually gleams in the sun. For standard, silkiness is the desired quality.

Thickness: Again, as a non-expert, I would have thought the thicker the better, but maybe this isn't true. I would guess that the perception of thickness would come both from the width of the hair shaft and the amount of hair. Thor's coat is pretty thin.

Curliness: I am leaning towards thinking this is not strictly linked to silk, though it appears that most yorkies with curly hair have cotton coats. Tammy's dog's hair really does look both silky and curly, though. And I've seen dogs with very cottony, very straight coats.

Color: A whole set of its own topics.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

I do believe there is an answer, curly hair is dominant. Can you find one site that says it isn't? Here another link on canine genetics. http://diamonddoxies.com/Canine_genes.doc

Thanks Nancy, but that was not the original question. the original question had nothing to do with curly or straight hair.

I also do not believe that there is a simple answer to the curly/straight hair issue. this same sire has produced puppies with straight har with 3 different females.

I'm going to, take some pictures of another of his offspring

[Jennxling]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

Not that I feel that I owe anyone an explanation about anything, but here is a picture of one of the sires other offspring

Attachment 334514

I have read on this very forum, where show breeders have said they have bred nonstandard dogs, because they had other features that they were breeding for. Now I assume that they knew that some of the offspring would have the "nonstandard" traits, but they also hoped that at least one would carry the traits that they were breeding for and not have the non standard traits.

And Yes I was taken when I was sold the dog with the wavy hair. But he has a gorgeous face and a nice compact sturdy body. This is a learning process.

HE IS ADORABLE!! He has such a cute face and I do love his color!! He is definitely unique. What I love about the yorkie breed is that they are all so different...color, coat texture, etc.

[peanut]

Originally Posted by QuickSilver

Let me ask this: can we say we are discussing four qualities here?

Silkiness: As a non-expert, I would classify this as the hair's reflectiveness. Other characteristics are lack of matting and coolness to touch. Thor is *extremely* silky. His coat actually gleams in the sun. For standard, silkiness is the desired quality.

Thickness: Again, as a non-expert, I would have thought the thicker the better, but maybe this isn't true. I would guess that the perception of thickness would come both from the width of the hair shaft and the amount of hair. Thor's coat is pretty thin.

Curliness: I am leaning towards thinking this is not strictly linked to silk, though it appears that most yorkies with curly hair have cotton coats. Tammy's dog's hair really does look both silky and curly, though. And I've seen dogs with very cottony, very straight coats.

Color: A whole set of its own topics.

Here is a pic of my Biewer Lily, I was going to ask what kind of coat would you think she has but I already said she has wavy in it so thats a no brainer. lol I will post a pic of my male biewer and he has a pure silk coat, and the offspring all have his type of coat.

[Woogie Man]

Originally Posted by QuickSilver

Let me ask this: can we say we are discussing four qualities here?

Silkiness: As a non-expert, I would classify this as the hair's reflectiveness. Other characteristics are lack of matting and coolness to touch. Thor is *extremely* silky. His coat actually gleams in the sun. For standard, silkiness is the desired quality.

Thickness: Again, as a non-expert, I would have thought the thicker the better, but maybe this isn't true. I would guess that the perception of thickness would come both from the width of the hair shaft and the amount of hair. Thor's coat is pretty thin.

Curliness: I am leaning towards thinking this is not strictly linked to silk, though it appears that most yorkies with curly hair have cotton coats. Tammy's dog's hair really does look both silky and curly, though. And I've seen dogs with very cottony, very straight coats.

Color: A whole set of its own topics.

Lighter colored Yorkies, such as your Thor, tend to reflect more light. Take two hypothetical Yorkies with the same type hair, except for color, and the lighter one will be more reflective. It's less heavily pigmented than darker hair.

Thicker hair would not automatically be better. The books will tell you that a correct Yorkie coat will appear thin on a pup. I don't think a thin coat on a mature Yorkie is desirable, though. Like so many things, it should be not too this and not too that but just right.

The curlinesss/waviness thing is something I've had questions about, too. The earlier Yorkie champs in the books displayed some wave in the hair as late as the 1970's. I'm not sure if it's genetics or grooming techniques that seem to have rid modern show Yorkies of it. Probably a little of both.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

Thanks Nancy, but that was not the original question. the original question had nothing to do with curly or straight hair.

I also do not believe that there is a simple answer to the curly/straight hair issue. this same sire has produced puppies with straight har with 3 different females.

I'm going to, take some pictures of another of his offspring

Here is another of his puppies. He has no curl to his coat at all.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

Okay, but you must admit, its posted all the time here, I guess as a way of justifing their own breeding programs. I'm glad that you weren't doing this.

I know that statement has been made here before. But not in this thread. I used to feel that I had to justify my program. I no longer feel that I do.

It doesn't even matter what I say my intentions are, there are those who would tell me that those were not my intentions and proceed to tell me exactly what they believe my intentions are.

So I no longer even try. people will believe what they want to believe.

I don really care if those in the show ring dye their dogs or put wigs on them. As long as I am not showing against them, let them do what they want. It's just a dog show.