Yorkshire Terrier and the Parti/Tricolor

[Breezeaway]

All that from a club president that was banned from showing for life .

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/gen...rs-owners.html

[shodanusmc]

it sure is great that there is an Official Breed Standard. With that, have a wonderful 2011.

[Pinehaven]

Originally Posted by Breezeaway

In my opinion , even the parti's need boundries. If you let it be a free for all, and not limit the white, they will be an all white dog. An all white dog is not a parti yorkie. Parti color yorkies should not have an all white head, all white face or a badly mismarked head. IMO discriminate or not.

Parti means, Two or more definite, well-broken colors, one of which must be white. For example, Black Parti-color would be black and white. Color definitions may vary by breed. Always check the breed standard for the definitive color description.
The 70% I said was just a scenario, it could be 80 or so as long as the head is symmetrical.

I totally agree with the head markings but body marking on a dog with the extreme white gene may not be more than a spot or two.

Maybe there could be a minimum amount of spotting like "must have at least 2 inches of pigmented markings on the body." Just as a Blue and tan Yorkshire terrier is allowed a 1" white marking on it's chest, maybe a certain number in inches would work when dealing with an extreme white parti. Basically any spotting on the body, would indicate parti coloring but definitely symmetrical head markings for all with points taken off for asymmetrically marked heads.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by Breezeaway

Change; we don’t like it, we fear it, but we can't stop it from coming.
We either adapt to change or we get left behind.
And it hurts to grow, anybody who tells you it doesn’t is lying.
But heres the truth, the more things change, the more they stay the same. And sometimes, oh, sometimes change is good. Oh, sometimes.... change is everything.

I asked this, it really is a legitmate question.

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

Has there ever been a standard that 50% of the parti breeders agreed upon? You say that the mother club should write the standard, but wouldn't there still many/most breeders who didn't like that standard, and wanted their personal markings to be accepted? Right now, parti breeders talk about breeding "outside the box", or doing their own thing, I just don't see how that would change. Furthermore, how can you write a standard for someone who doesn't believe in the standard, or see the importance of breeding to it?

[Breezeaway]

Originally Posted by Pinehaven

I totally agree with the head markings but body marking on a dog with the extreme white gene may not be more than a spot or two.

Maybe there could be a minimum amount of spotting like "must have at least 2 inches of pigmented markings on the body." Just as a Blue and tan Yorkshire terrier is allowed a 1" white marking on it's chest, maybe a certain number in inches would work when dealing with an extreme white parti. Basically any spotting on the body, would indicate parti coloring but definitely symmetrical head markings for all with points taken off for asymmetrically marked heads.

I don't see a problem with a white body as long as the head has the correct color.
Like these cockers have a few spots.

[Rhetts_mama]

Originally Posted by concretegurl

If you say you are not against a dog just against breeding it...how does that make sense...then you are again the pups..by default that dog's lineage and that dog no? Not against the dog but it's breeding...but it's parents breeding were you against that...why were they sick...carried a genetic disorder...a fault...the only fault was color?!?

What you again fail to miss is that no one is against the DOGS. The dogs had no say on whether they were bred poorly or not. What people are against is the breeder who feels the need to try to make a buck breeding purposely on a fault. It's really no different than someone who purposely breeds cobble bodied, bobble headed, Hello Kitty faced tinies. Sure, they may be AKC registered, but that sure isn't worth the paper it's printed on, is it?

Change for the sake of change. And if you can make a buck off of it, so much the better.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

This is a really salient point. Some folks seem so angry at parti breeders. One reason I've never really understood the heightened emotions over the parti/biewer issue is similar to what Jeanie mentions above.

Every dog on this planet is descended from the Gray Wolf. So, unless someone has a gray wolf, then the dog they currently have is a mix who came from the gray wolf. A 'purebred' happens over time; yorkies didn't just appear on the planet.

Makes me wonder if 10,000 years or so ago (give or take, depending upon when you see the wolf/dog split), when humans were creating all the mixes (now breeds) we see today - whether or not the passion reached the heights it does today.

At the end of the day, we all have a 'mixed' dog and every breed started as just that. And every breed 'standard' is created by humans. Not only that, but those same humans who set the standard, then change the standard...so, I guess change is acceptable....but maybe only ostensibly??

I guess one of my main points is, I don't understand the notion that breeding partis (or biewers, or whatever other controversial breed) is just plain wrong, as some indicate. Whose to say that any breed/strain/mix that was created (incl yorkies) was wrong or right?

It's not the idea that they are breeding other things, they want the YTCA to change the standard because of what they have chosen to do. The YTCA is there to Protect the standard, do you see the conflict? YTCA members have promised to protect and preserve the standard.

I believe there is room for more breeds, but I don't believe that a breed is necessary better if it has more variety. What some Biewer Clubs are trying to do is different than what some parti breeders are trying to do because some parti breeders seem only interested in producing pets, and vilifying the YTCA. Why do they even want to be accepted by a breed club that they have so little respect for? If you want to create a variation of a breed, you need to get a group of like minded people and form a breed club, set a standard and adhere to it, and start showing, your goals should be more than to produce pets or even to have AKC status. You should have a code of conduct for your members, and your long-term goal should be that you would like this variety of breed to be around 100 years from now even better than it is now. By better, I mean more healthy examples that consistently produce the qualities of "standard". In the early days of a breed club, standard may change, but as they learn more about this particular variety and do health testing they can tweak their standard. However, at some point in time they should be very concerned about changing it just to bring in more variety.

[Breezeaway]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

Has there ever been a standard that 50% of the parti breeders agreed upon? You say that the mother club should write the standard, but wouldn't there still many/most breeders who didn't like that standard, and wanted their personal markings to be accepted? Right now, parti breeders talk about breeding "outside the box", or doing their own thing, I just don't see how that would change. Furthermore, how can you write a standard for someone who doesn't believe in the standard, or see the importance of breeding to it?

Why don't you ask the YTCA, since they are the parent club for the parti and all yorkshire terriers right now.
I wouldn't know what parti breeders agree or disagree on because it has never been brought to a table or to a meeting with the YTCA.
As for your last question, that's kind of a catch 22 isnt it?

[bchgirl]

Originally Posted by Breezeaway

Why don't you ask the YTCA, since they are the parent club for the parti and all yorkshire terriers right now.
I wouldn't know what parti breeders agree or disagree on because it has never been brought to a table or to a meeting with the YTCA.
As for your last question, that's kind of a catch 22 isnt it?

The parti yorkshire terrier club doesn't hold meetings?

[Breezeaway]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

Has there ever been a standard that 50% of the parti breeders agreed upon? You say that the mother club should write the standard, but wouldn't there still many/most breeders who didn't like that standard, and wanted their personal markings to be accepted? Right now, parti breeders talk about breeding "outside the box", or doing their own thing, I just don't see how that would change. Furthermore, how can you write a standard for someone who doesn't believe in the standard, or see the importance of breeding to it?

Again a blanket statement about parti breeders.
It starts with the breeder, not you, nor I can control what a person wants to do.
Just what % of traditional color yorkies being bred are to the YTCA standard??????
One can look on puppyfind and see. My guess is Probably about 20%

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by Breezeaway

Why don't you ask the YTCA, since they are the parent club for the parti and all yorkshire terriers right now.
I wouldn't know what parti breeders agree or disagree on because it has never been brought to a table or to a meeting with the YTCA.
As for your last question, that's kind of a catch 22 isnt it?

I know how the YTCA members feel about it, it's written on the website, if you are waiting for them to write you a standard, I do not think you are really serious about what you are trying to accomplish. I also do think some parti breeders truly believe in what they are doing, but I don't see the point in getting the YTCA to accept their vision for the Yorkie.

[Breezeaway]

Originally Posted by bchgirl

The parti yorkshire terrier club doesn't hold meetings?

WE are just a club, AKC has told us over and over that the YTCA is the parent club.
Our club does not represent all parti breeders.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by Breezeaway

Again a blanket statement about parti breeders.
It starts with the breeder, not you, nor I can control what a person wants to do.
Just what % of traditional color yorkies being bred are to the YTCA standard??????
One can look on puppyfind and see. My guess is Probably about 20%

If you are familiar with my posts, you will know that I'm always talking about breeding to standard, it's not just the parti trait. I agree, most pet owners are not breeding to standard, they don't even understand standard, and what it truly means.

Not sure what you mean by "Just what % of traditional color yorkies being bred are to the YTCA standard??????", I've read in other threads that people complain because a YTCA breeder has a black instead of a blue dog in her line. From my understanding the blue is a diluting gene, so the black must be bred back into the line to keep the blue from going to a light blue or silver, again the important thing to remember is the "goal" you are trying to produce dogs with the perfect shade of "blue". Think of it as breeding TO standard, not as breeding standard dogs.

[Breezeaway]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

I know how the YTCA members feel about it, it's written on the website, if you are waiting for them to write you a standard, I do not think you are really serious about what you are trying to accomplish. I also do think some parti breeders truly believe in what they are doing, but I don't see the point in getting the YTCA to accept their vision for the Yorkie.

Then what is your point????
Yes we know, a standard, is a standard , is a standard.......
We know how you feel , you have made it abundantly loud, like over and over again.
Oh lets see, we know how the YTCA feels too, its on their website.
How can the YTCA take us serious when they wont even acknowledge they are a yorkie, they have never once talked with anyone of us.
They will not respond to us in any way, shape or form.
They ignore any kind of contact we make to them.
Our club does have a standard and we can show NAKC, but the YTCA wants NO part of it.

[Breezeaway]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

If you are familiar with my posts, you will know that I'm always talking about breeding to standard, it's not just the parti trait. I agree, most pet owners are not breeding to standard, they don't even understand standard, and what it truly means.

Not sure what you mean by "Just what % of traditional color yorkies being bred are to the YTCA standard??????", I've read in other threads that people complain because a YTCA breeder has a black instead of a blue dog in her line. From my understanding the blue is a diluting gene, so the black must be bred back into the line to keep the blue from going to a light blue or silver, again the important thing to remember is the "goal" you are trying to produce dogs with the perfect shade of "blue". Think of it as breeding TO standard, not as breeding standard dogs.

See that is just it..... The standard is NOT just color. Just because it is the perfect shade of blue does not make it a standard yorkie.