Are Registration papers necessary when buying a pet?

[FlDebra]

Originally Posted by concretegurl

I guess I can advocate all day how worth it is and how $80 is reasonable-but its a personal decision everyone makes-which is why it isn't required yet here. I think of it like this, how much do you spend on supplies for your dog, food, toys, clothing, etc. You can't put aside $10 for 8 weeks or $5 for 16 weeks and send it in to know...I'm all into it have the papers for Princess and Scoobers framed on the dining room wall in a cute made for them frame with their pictures as pup (or me getting them) and a current pic. I think of it as that useless birth certificate the hospital give us all-the one with the feet and sometimes hands on it-its totally not a legal verification-we just use it to put in a frame on the wall and show off...yeah-my children's copies of those are next to the dog's papers on the wall in case you were wondering.

I dont think it has anything to do with being able to afford the $$ or having to save up for it over many weeks time -- she is just saying, she does not feel like she would have a use for it. No need to bully -- some will some won't -- the world will continue to turn.

[Britster]

I don't have a need for them nor do I care about them even if I had the option to (I did not get papers for Jackson). I'm not really big on the AKC and what they have done to dogs anyways but I do realize what they have done good as well. Just don't see a need to give them more money.

It would be cool to see the pedigree though. Just out of curiosity.

[Fancy_Pants]

Fancy's AKC registration is still sitting in the bottom of the drawer, never been filled out. I waited to long too and the fee is higher now. I don't need it though, I know she is a yorkie and she is mine - I don't need a piece of paper to tell me that! Plus I will never breed her so I don't really see a need to pay the extra money when I could just spend it buying Fancy something instead!

[Elle]

I agree.

The info on the registration certificate is also only as good as the reputation of the breeder

You should never assume a dog is anything the paper says. Do your homework, study breeders. Learn the breed. If you don't care if you're buying a less than perfect example of the breed, the same protocol. You want a yorkie that will look like one, be healthy etc. Reg. numbers don't increase value or prove breed type. I think it depends what the papers say, not if and who they come from.

Originally Posted by Lorraine

Well i think they are. In Canada under our Canadian Kennel Club rules, we are required to provide and pay for the registration papers on any dog or puppy we sell transferred to the new owners name. The registration actually belongs to the dog or puppy being sold.
I am aware in the US the AKC does not have that requirement if you are buying for pet. The AKC from what I understand is trying to encourage breeders to provide the registration for the new owner to send in if they want to.
The regsitration paper for any dog or puppy, verifies that this a purebred dog, has the registration number and registered name for the dog as well as who the parents are and their registration numbers, date of sale, breeders name, date of birth that sort of info.
Under some contracts, spay/neuter will be done and verified before papers will be provided which is reasonable.
The info on the registration certificate is also only as good as the reputation of the breeder so bear that in mind when you are looking for a puppy.
If you are buying purebred, paying for a purebred, I think the registration verifying that this is a purebred should be a requirement of any buyer.
Thoughts?

[Yorkiekids]

I think it's a good idea to get them. Atleast you know what you're getting.

[FlDebra]

Originally Posted by Britster

I don't have a need for them nor do I care about them even if I had the option to (I did not get papers for Jackson). I'm not really big on the AKC and what they have done to dogs anyways but I do realize what they have done good as well. Just don't see a need to give them more money.

It would be cool to see the pedigree though. Just out of curiosity.

Sometimes the breeder will give you a copy of the pedigree of your dog's dam and sire. I got copies from Ben's breeder. I did go ahead and buy his pedigree. I got the whole shebang -- Gold or Silver package, can't remember now. I don't know why, other than I was all ate up with finally getting him. I was excited to see the Champions in his bloodline. But I really did not get anything more than what the breeder had already given me.

[concretegurl]

Originally Posted by FlDebra

I dont think it has anything to do with being able to afford the $$ or having to save up for it over many weeks time -- she is just saying, she does not feel like she would have a use for it. No need to bully -- some will some won't -- the world will continue to turn.

OUCH! Bullying seriously? She stated the high cost and later said it was $80 so I suggested something for the alleviation of the cost-how is trying to be helpful bullying? I know she stated she didn't feel it was necessicary later...I only posted the reasons I felt it was necessicary, excuse me for giving my opinion in an open forum and trying to be helpful.

[Britster]

Originally Posted by FlDebra

Sometimes the breeder will give you a copy of the pedigree of your dog's dam and sire. I got copies from Ben's breeder. I did go ahead and buy his pedigree. I got the whole shebang -- Gold or Silver package, can't remember now. I don't know why, other than I was all ate up with finally getting him. I was excited to see the Champions in his bloodline. But I really did not get anything more than what the breeder had already given me.

Jackson came from a BYB so I'm not even in contact with the "breeder" unfortunately.

[DvlshAngel985]

Originally Posted by concretegurl

OUCH! Bullying seriously? She stated the high cost and later said it was $80 so I suggested something for the alleviation of the cost-how is trying to be helpful bullying? I know she stated she didn't feel it was necessicary later...I only posted the reasons I felt it was necessicary, excuse me for giving my opinion in an open forum and trying to be helpful.

I said it was WAY higher than it would have been if I had sent in the papers early on. You don't think a $50-$60 penalty fee is outrageous? I do! The only reason I would pay the fee (which I can afford, thank you very much) is if Kaji does well in agility classes and I'd want to seriously compete. Or, getting his good citizen certificate.


And of course all pets are on limited registration. It means you don't have permission to breed. Unless a dog came from someone who doesn't give a hoot, then that's another story. I have receipts, vet records, his Home Again registration, and all other documents to prove Kaji's mine. One more paper isn't going to prove anything.

[DvlshAngel985]

Originally Posted by Elle

I agree.

The info on the registration certificate is also only as good as the reputation of the breeder

You should never assume a dog is anything the paper says. Do your homework, study breeders. Learn the breed. If you don't care if you're buying a less than perfect example of the breed, the same protocol. You want a yorkie that will look like one, be healthy etc. Reg. numbers don't increase value or prove breed type. I think it depends what the papers say, not if and who they come from.

This is exactly how I feel, and exactly why I was hesitant (still am) about even getting his paper.

[Lorraine]

I am willing to try again. When I said the registration papers could only be as good as the reputation of the breeder, I was saying that you should expect registration papers on a purebred dog. There certainly are some breeders that will sell you papers which under both AKC and Canadian Kennel Club is illegal. There are some breeders taht you can't be real sure the alleged sire and dam on paperwork whether you actually got the registration papers or not, really are the sire and dam.
What I am saying is do your homework but in that process also expect your breeder selling you a puppy to provide the proper registration paperwork.
From my experience here in Canada from people who are my dog grooming clients and who have bought puppies nonregistered, 99% of those puppies were not purebred at all.

[concretegurl]

Originally Posted by DvlshAngel985

I said it was WAY higher than it would have been if I had sent in the papers early on. You don't think a $50-$60 penalty fee is outrageous? I do! The only reason I would pay the fee (which I can afford, thank you very much) is if Kaji does well in agility classes and I'd want to seriously compete. Or, getting his good citizen certificate.
And of course all pets are on limited registration. It means you don't have permission to breed. Unless a dog came from someone who doesn't give a hoot, then that's another story. I have receipts, vet records, his Home Again registration, and all other documents to prove Kaji's mine. One more paper isn't going to prove anything.

Again I'm really sorry you misinterpreted what I said. Apparently my attempts to come up with an option to alleviate the new high cost wasn't taken well. When and where did I say you couldn't afford it? I was never implying that if that's where confusion comes from for you-you noted the high costs, which I believe do detour a lot of people looking at a larger one time expense more than they anticipated initially. Also,commenting that after reading my posts it made you not want to do it was rude but whatever to each their own. I do think the penalty is rather extreme as well. I didn't register Princess right away, I forgot and then when I remembered and got the papers out it was about $65 more, so I spent another month putting money aside to cover the extra cost I hadn't anticipated. I'm definitely a budgeter here, if its an unanticipated cost, it has to be an emergency expense to not get save up for, but that's really a personal financial choice.
I hope some people will get what they need from all the constructive reasons on weather or not having registration papers is beneficial. I agree with the original post in this forum-Limited Registrations should be a minimum standard and supporting all the good work of the AKC is well worth the minor expenses they charge. Papers in conjunction with micro-chipping is a great way to ensure any animal custody issues. You can add a microchip number to your AKC registration-nice to see people notate you need both CKC and AKC registration for various things.
Not to mention if every breeder has to register their dogs (AKC CKC EKC,etc)responsible can be encouraged through record keeping and giving more authority to the AKC.
One of my dogs came without his papers, he later had health problems (which can happen to anyone, genetics are genetics, if anyone says they have never had a sick pup in their line-they're probably not being honest) anyways there was little to be done about proving he came from the breeder he did, and that she had continually bred dogs with genetic issues. The AKC can really do very little about this with out records and registrations proving linage, as well their current limitations-its a shame but requiring minimal registration could be a step in the right direction. Ye that and as a lot of people have noted it's just so cool to look and see your dog's pedigree, champions, names etc.
I really think (again) it would be nice that all kennels (breeders) practiced as some do pups come with either Limited Registration or Full Registration instead of with or without papers...

[Lorraine]

The Fee schedule for costs of registration with the Canadian Kennel Club is based on those breeders that are members in good standing with the CKC. Yes, we can join the CKC.
To register a litter within 120 days after date of birth, it is $20.90. So say a litter of 3 would then be about $7 /pup.
To do the individual dog registration, it is $20.90/pup. To transfer ownership to the buyer it is $15.70 / per pup.
Past the $120 days for the registration fees, they go up about $5 then really jump if you are waiting over 6 months.
So that would bring my cost to about $50/pup. Sure is not much when you see breeders here in Canada sometimes selling pups for about $300 more for the registration papers which is illegal and such breeders are considered totally unethical.

[Lorraine]

Originally Posted by Lorraine

Past the $120 days for the registration fees, .

Whoops should have read Past the 120 days ......

[Sunnie]

I think if a breeder is selling dogs claiming they are from AKC registered stock, they should be required to provide the papers to the buyer. I can understand that they do not want the buyer to breed the puppy, but that is exactly what the LIMITED registration check box is for. Of course it does not stop the new owner from breeding, but it doesn't stop them by not providing the papers either. I guess I just feel more comfortable knowing that if the breeder provides the "proof" that the puppy is purebreed, it more than likely is. NOT IN ALL CASES.. but thier signature on that paper also gives some recourse if it is determined that the puppy is NOT purebred.