I hope this isn't a dumb question..

[tammy8833]

Originally Posted by capt_noonie

I think a really big part of the problem is the general public out there think "pet quality" is just a dog, any old dog.

Show breeder/exhibitors breed their dogs to gain approval of their stock. Even though they use the same dogs or same lines of their dogs with champions in their pedigrees, every so often, some times often, sometimes not, there is a pup that they KNOW will not be able to get in the ring. Those are supposed to be true pet quality.

Bc most of the public do NOT do any homework other than google up puppies pics, they don't know that buying a dog from just anyone who just says they love to breed they are also adding to the problem. Also most of the public think that show dogs are too expensive. It's more disreputable breeders selling their dogs for insanely inflated prices trying to make the public think they are buying something more special or rare. Again, uninformed public being taken advantaged of by greeders. Those dogs are not show dogs. Far from it.

Some of you may remember back a few months when I stated my bff wanted to get a yorkie and she wanted my help. Wonderful! Not only can I help her find the right avenue to buy from a reputable breeder, but i can go down that path with her bc I didn't do it right the first time either. More and more talking got us fighting. She does not want a "show" dog, and she does not understand what pet quality means. She doesn't want to have to go through interviews etc to prove she is worthy of getting a dog from a reputable breeder. She just wants a dog and she wants to get it easily and now. With that attitude, she won't be able to get one from a reputable breeder.

So in steps the disreputable breeder....
Breeders that don't test
Breeders that cross breeds
Breeders that do it bc there is money to be made, the demand for it.
Breeders who sell to anyone with some cash or a credit card.
Bc they have a waiting list
etc, etc, etc
They breed bc of lazy people out there that don't want or care to have a good representation of the breed. People that think show people are "snobby". Use the word snob, elitist, whatever. People who are at the top work hard to get there and stay there. They hold themselves to a higher standard. Just bc others are lazy, uninformed or have low standards they should not accuse those who have high standards of being "snobs" or other insults. If you want to do something, do it right. If you want to bring lives into this already overpopulated world, DO IT RIGHT.

NO DISREPUTABLE BREEDER THINKS OF THEMSELVES AS DISREPUTABLE! They do not think they are backyard breeders. They are. Plain and simple. They think their actions can be justified by their lame reasons. They are really excuses. Breeding mixes does nothing for either breed. The families that BUY designers dogs are just a clueless as the people who breed them.

IF YOU WANT A MIX GO TO THE FREAKING SHELTER! There are purebred yorkies in my local shelters, cute ones too. Even more in rescue. Adopting one from rescue is harder bc we pay for vetting which costs money. We don't want the dog going to the wrong home and ending up back in rescue or a shelter. Adopting from the pound or shelter is easier bc they don't vet, only vax and spay/neuter. Lots of those dogs come back sadly.

More lame excuses, "I don't want a dog with problems." "I don't want a dog that I don't know where it came from, how it's temperament is." Same can be said for dogs with no testing, bred indiscriminately.

"I want a puppy." then three months later, "I'm giving away my dog, he can't be potty trained" More laziness. Dogs are easily trained. It just takes time and patience. if you don't have both, or either, don't get a dog. but why do so many people out there who have no time or patience have dogs? bc disreputable breeders sell to them. It's a never ending cycle bc of the uninformed public. If more and more of us stop and talk to these people and try to change the way the public views dogs and animals in general, there will be no market to fill and no more bybs and puppymills.

And no I did not quote and reply to anyone in particular, but if you got mad with anything that I stated, then perhaps I am talking to you.

this is going to come out wrong but i dont know how else to say this

people who feel as the above poster..as passionate as she is (which is not bad at all) "is all about rescue" nothing more. so anyone else that has anything to do with purchasing a puppy is an idiot, is a problem and is creating a problem.

its life

there are people who go to the shelters and look first and dont see what they want! so they place them selves on the list with another set of people waiting for the same dog to come it and then its a first come first basis OR its a purebred rescue they cant get approved by and life as this generation is, is not waiting for anything so they BUY from us pitiful byb or hobby breeders. People do not want others telling them they can or can not have a dog..so they go to someone in hopes of not being judged or turned down..im sure some people bypass the shelter because of the rejection.

and maybe for good cause they are not approved but you cant blame on all people who buy/sell

again i have no problem with rescues i have helped and would love to help rescues i have donated money and time and support all the wonderful work they do.

[tammy8833]

Originally Posted by Babbs3772

I didn't say you hurt a dog or dogs, I didn't say you were solely to blame for the over population of mixed breeds and full breeds in Rescues and Shelters.

Nothing about this post makes me feel better to be honest and what would make feel better is clearly not going to happen.

What I did say is that I do not believe you are going to change your practices, that I feel anyone (not just you) who breeds dogs intentionally of mixed breeds is contributing to a population that is already over run with mixed breed and that the best I can do as a person is to make sure I say that I think it is irresponsible.

Silence will not save me, nor will it save others - humans and pets alike- and I feel comfortable expressing my opinions in a reasonable way, just as you have felt comfortable talking on this board.

Please do not take things so personally, I am sure that your personality is not under fire.

Really?

[tammy8833]

at the request of the op
im not commenting anymore unless its on the OP post

but please feel free to pm me if you have anything else to say to me

[capt_noonie]

Originally Posted by tammy8833

this is going to come out wrong but i dont know how else to say this

people who feel as the above poster..as passionate as she is (which is not bad at all) "is all about rescue" nothing more. so anyone else that has anything to do with purchasing a puppy is an idiot, is a problem and is creating a problem.

its life

there are people who go to the shelters and look first and dont see what they want! so they place them selves on the list with another set of people waiting for the same dog to come it and then its a first come first basis OR its a purebred rescue they cant get approved by and life as this generation is, is not waiting for anything so they BUY from us pitiful byb or hobby breeders. People do not want others telling them they can or can not have a dog..so they go to someone in hopes of not being judged or turned down..im sure some people bypass the shelter because of the rejection.

and maybe for good cause they are not approved but you cant blame on all people who buy/sell

again i have no problem with rescues i have helped and would love to help rescues i have donated money and time and support all the wonderful work they do.

Of all I posted that's what you got from it? I'm not against buying a puppy. I'm against buying a puppy and supporting disreputable breeders who breed for all the wrong reasons.

What I'm for? Rescue, yes, but also supporting responsible reputable breeders who have the betterment of the breed in mind.

People who would not jump thru hoops to get approved by rescue, or approved by a reputable breeder (yes you really do need to impress them) think they DESERVE to get a dog. that they shouldn't have to prove it. If they have the money it's their right isn't it? Well, surprise, just bc someone WANTS a dog doesn't necessarily mean they should have one. Ever seen humans that should never of had kids? Same thing.

btw, you are not a hobby breeder.

[Ringo1]

Originally Posted by Lizzie07

Maybe it was a little harsh, but from the impression I have, you don't think breeders or rescues should have qualifications or screen the homes they place dogs in.



I find several things you've said offensive and the one above is probably the worst. You have knocked rescue and adopting dogs all through this thread. First, nine out of ten of the dogs I have fostered and placed have NO baggage. Literally, no emotional baggage, or any other kind. Heck, I've had owners remove the collar the dog is wearing or the dog shows up with no collar so they don't even have literal baggage. Getting a puppy is no insurance that you are getting a problem free dog. Probably 1/3 of the IGs I gotten were puppies and not ONE, not one came from a reputable breeder. They've come from petstores, bought over the internet, and many from backyard breeders. The dogs that need the most rehabillitation are the ones that come directly from bybs or puppymills. Frequently the rescue gets puppies from owners who can not afford the health issues, or vet bills when one breaks a leg or has a luxating patellas.

It is a fallacy that if you adopt you get a dog with baggage and bad habits. A puppy is so much more difficult. An adult dog is so much easier to train and faster to train than a puppy. It requires a lot less repeitition to train.

I can't imagine placing a dog without screening the owners and having quailifications. I do home checks and reference checks. I care so much about the dogs, I want them in the best homes I can find. I wouldn't consider getting a puppy from a breeder who didn't screen before placing a puppy or dog.

I'm going to make one post here. Breeding practices, aside, what Tammy said was that 'most people' want a puppy and not an older rescue, etc.

You cannot fault this statement. It is simply a fact. Statistics alone say that 'most people' purchase puppies from whomever as opposed to rescue. It is not right but it is what it is.

It is not rescue bashing - it is what 'most people' do. It's part of the problem. Were there no demand, there would be no need for supply of the so called designed dogs, puppies, etc.

How can I point fingers? I purchased a puppy. I did not rescue.

No, she is not a mixed breed and YES, I tried to ensure that I avoided anything resembling a puppy mill. But, still, I purchased a puppy. That is what most people do. I guess I'm part of the problem too.

After having been part of this board for a year; I might do things differently next time around.

But I think her statement was taken out of context. She is right. Most people want a puppy. Most haven't spent time listening to people who foster and rescue. They just haven't had that opportunity.

[Rhetts_mama]

Puppies are available from rescues. Sometimes you need to wait a bit, other times they fall right in to your lap. Rhett was 10 weeks, Scarlett 8. My mom's dogs, Oliver and Emmalee were 16 weeks and 9 weeks (the rescue held on to Oliver a little longer because he was such a tiny guy and they were waiting for just the right home for him).

My local humane society has puppies there 24/7.

The point is, if someone wants a puppy vs a slightly more mature dog, they are available. There is never any GOOD reason to support a bad breeder.

[Poshible]

Originally Posted by capt_noonie

Of all I posted that's what you got from it? I'm not against buying a puppy. I'm against buying a puppy and supporting disreputable breeders who breed for all the wrong reasons.

What I'm for? Rescue, yes, but also supporting responsible reputable breeders who have the betterment of the breed in mind.

People who would not jump thru hoops to get approved by rescue, or approved by a reputable breeder (yes you really do need to impress them) think they DESERVE to get a dog. that they shouldn't have to prove it. If they have the money it's their right isn't it? Well, surprise, just bc someone WANTS a dog doesn't necessarily mean they should have one. Ever seen humans that should never of had kids? Same thing.

btw, you are not a hobby breeder.

[Ringo1]

Originally Posted by Rhetts_mama

Puppies are available from rescues. Sometimes you need to wait a bit, other times they fall right in to your lap. Rhett was 10 weeks, Scarlett 8. My mom's dogs, Oliver and Emmalee were 16 weeks and 9 weeks (the rescue held on to Oliver a little longer because he was such a tiny guy and they were waiting for just the right home for him).

My local humane society has puppies there 24/7.

The point is, if someone wants a puppy vs a slightly more mature dog, they are available. There is never any GOOD reason to support a bad breeder.

I agree. I just don't think the general public is fully aware of what's out there and available. Most of what I've learned ~ has been in a dog forum on the internet.

[Nasdaq_Diva]

I ASKED NICELY FOR THE DRAMA TO MOVE ONTO SOMEPLACE ELSE.

No one listened, so can this thread please just close. Geez...out of 15 damn pages, only maybe 2 are devoted to the ACTUAL situation at hand...

[Beamers Mom]

Originally Posted by Nasdaq_Diva

I ASKED NICELY FOR THE DRAMA TO MOVE ONTO SOMEPLACE ELSE.

No one listened, so can this thread please just close. Geez...out of 15 damn pages, only maybe 2 are devoted to the ACTUAL situation at hand...

As the original poster you can PM admin or one of the moderators and request the thread be closed.

[Lizzie07]

Originally Posted by tammy8833

yes there are millions of dogs in sheltes..mainly mutts heniz57
yes there are yorkies and i sympathize with them...but the marjority are not desired..most people want the puppy, they want to know where they came from, they dont want the baggage, the already learned bad habits and there are wonderful people out there that do and take them in and care for them and retrain them and give them the best..but thats not everyones cup o tea

Originally Posted by Ringo1

I'm going to make one post here. Breeding practices, aside, what Tammy said was that 'most people' want a puppy and not an older rescue, etc.

It is not rescue bashing - it is what 'most people' do. It's part of the problem. Were there no demand, there would be no need for supply of the so called designed dogs, puppies, etc.

"Most people" might want a puppy, I'll agree. What I do think she has said that is patently untrue is that rescues have baggage and bad habits. She didn't say "Most people" think blah, blah. She did bash rescue by making rescue dogs sound like they all have baggage and bad habits. It isn't true.

Furthermore, you are just as likely to get a dog with problems, temperament problems, worse than baggage, by buying a puppy from a byb or someone who doesn't understand or know the background and pedigree of all the dogs being bred. Many people do get lucky and get nice pets, but it's a crap shoot.

Tammi is the only rescue person I have ever heard say such horrid and untrue things about rescue dogs. It shocks me that someone who has actually been associated with a rescue can speak like this. And I am not one of those people who believes everyone should rescue, but I do support rescue and responsible breeding.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by Lizzie07

"Most people" might want a puppy, I'll agree. What I do think she has said that is patently untrue is that rescues have baggage and bad habits. She didn't say "Most people" think blah, blah. She did bash rescue by making rescue dogs sound like they all have baggage and bad habits. It isn't true.

Furthermore, you are just as likely to get a dog with problems, temperament problems, worse than baggage, by buying a puppy from a byb or someone who doesn't understand or know the background and pedigree of all the dogs being bred. Many people do get lucky and get nice pets, but it's a crap shoot.

Tammi is the only rescue person I have ever heard say such horrid and untrue things about rescue dogs. It shocks me that someone who has actually been associated with a rescue can speak like this. And I am not one of those people who believes everyone should rescue, but I do support rescue and responsible breeding.

I hope you don't mind my adding to your comments.

Poor breeding is not the only thing that contribute to a dog's behavior problems, inept pet ownership plays a big factor into it too. However, it can be turned around, with patience and affection. I've seen it and done it, with 3 dogs that are now in my care. I inherited my mother's yorkie; agression problems, brought on by the way she was treated. It took me 2 years to turn it around, to get her to trust again, but she's now a sweet loving girl.
I inerited 2 other dogs; one, a yorkie coming from the best of breeders, however, the owner failed at providing training. He was wild, not house trained at 3, a constant barker and runner. All 3 issues were corrected in about 6 months, again patience and love. 3rd dog, older, mixed breed; a bitter with aggression problems, would bite anyone that came near her. Again, patience and affection and a good 8 months of it, turned her around; she now shares my bed with 3 other dogs.

So, in a nutshell, rescues can come with baggage, but can be turned around if given the proper training, care and affection. It's all about getting them to trust again and who is the pack leader.