Feeling A Little Guilty.

[concretegurl]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

That is not Hybrid/Mutt/Mix hating. Pretty strong statements, since you know nothing about who I am. There are mixes in the shelter that are just waiting for homes. Anyone breeding mixes purposely or breeding indiscrimantely is just adding to an over population of shelters/rescues.

I didn't ask anyone what they paid for their mix, that's their business. What I said I wouldn't pay a penny......plenty of unwanted dogs in shelters that need homes.

Oh by the way I do have a mix, a poodle/maltese mix, a rescue. Sorry, I won't apologize for my beliefs. I'm pretty strong about them, since I've volunteered in shelters

Actually I have read a little about you online regarding Yorkies in show and breeding not that that implies "knowing someone" but I was shocked such a strong statement was made by you,considering what I have heard from you and about you-devaluing an animal completely-really? Anyways you have a mix I SAFELY assume you love and yet you say I wouldn't pay a penny for one...that's a strong statement, my statement was very toned down...yes indiscriminately breeding that's a problem (as I'm sure you know as a breeder-right?) that plagues all breeding genres including purebred, unfortunately it is more prevalent in hybrids, and designer breeding...that's key word but as I said before in my first "strong" statement, which I could understand the devaluing of hybrids, muts, designers considering the market mentality (sales pitched, prices and nonsense) and general breeding practices-but to say not a penny c'mon-that was my issue with your statement-not your beliefs on hybrids-even though I have my own very strong beliefs-I love them, Schnorkies are my favorite breed (they are a hybrid mix of my two favorite standard breeds)...however I was toning down my strong statement and being respectful of your stance {as breeder and show(wo)man of Yorkies, you love them so much you offer free grooming just to continue and ensure a relationship with all the dogs you breed-showing you don't indiscriminately breed, you are well known as a premier Yorkie breeder etc(I'm sure you know your own resume)-even though I know nothing about you}-hence I said, "I understand some people obvious for good reason have their views about purebreds and towards mixes" Nevertheless and especially considering you have volunteer in rescues etc-you know the rule of why a minimum adoption fee is charged, a re-homing fee... here's 'Alvin the Chipmunk' my son's three legged Russian Dwarf Hamster-paid 1,000 pennies for him...okay said what I have to say, still shocked at the statement but this is off topic for this thread-not sure this thread even has any topic (well point) though to be honest!

[dreyeeek]

it's really sad how KC brought this thread to a whole new level. I guess I can see where she's coming from but she shouldn't have been aggressive about the whole thing. The OP wasn't here to bash or anything, and if all, I think if KC was a reputable breeder, she should've explained herself rather than pointing the finger at everyone else.

[RachelandSadie]

Originally Posted by concretegurl

Actually I have read a little about you online regarding Yorkies in show and breeding not that that implies "knowing someone" but I was shocked such a strong statement was made by you,considering what I have heard from you and about you-devaluing an animal completely-really? Anyways you have a mix I SAFELY assume you love and yet you say I wouldn't pay a penny for one...that's a strong statement, my statement was very toned down...yes indiscriminately breeding that's a problem (as I'm sure you know as a breeder-right?) that plagues all breeding genres including purebred, unfortunately it is more prevalent in hybrids, and designer breeding...that's key word but as I said before in my first "strong" statement, which I could understand the devaluing of hybrids, muts, designers considering the market mentality (sales pitched, prices and nonsense) and general breeding practices-but to say not a penny c'mon-that was my issue with your statement-not your beliefs on hybrids-even though I have my own very strong beliefs-I love them, Schnorkies are my favorite breed (they are a hybrid mix of my two favorite standard breeds)...however I was toning down my strong statement and being respectful of your stance {as breeder and show(wo)man of Yorkies, you love them so much you offer free grooming just to continue and ensure a relationship with all the dogs you breed-showing you don't indiscriminately breed, you are well known as a premier Yorkie breeder etc(I'm sure you know your own resume)-even though I know nothing about you}-hence I said, "I understand some people obvious for good reason have their views about purebreds and towards mixes" Nevertheless and especially considering you have volunteer in rescues etc-you know the rule of why a minimum adoption fee is charged, a re-homing fee... here's 'Alvin the Chipmunk' my son's three legged Russian Dwarf Hamster-paid 1,000 pennies for him...okay said what I have to say, still shocked at the statement but this is off topic for this thread-not sure this thread even has any topic (well point) though to be honest!

i don't recall Mary ever stating that she wouldn't put money on a rescue mutt...she meant she wouldn't support a penny on a breeder who purposefully breeds "designers" and love the all you want, but that doesn't make a breeder a good one if they're going to mix up breeds. what do you think will happen to the two dog breeds you are so much in love with if everyone stopped breeding perfect schnausers and yorkies and just mixed them all with other dogs...eventually like many beautiful breeds in the past...there will be nothing but schnorkies or whatever you called them left and the schnausers won't exist and go extinct....that's why I am against purposefully breeding mixed.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by RachelandSadie

Mary doesn't mean she's "against" hybrids here she means that any breeder willing to sell them for as much or more than a purebred is NOT a good breeder and is only doing it for the money. hybrids are beautiful and cute dogs, but they happen in the wild all the time. we here at YT for the most part are against breeding for money and for the "pet" industry. we believe that breeding should be done to create the best possible breed standard. hybrids are not breed standard they are mixed mutts. they are cute sure, but not worth the money that bad breeders are trying to sell them for as "designer" dogs. hybrids are not recognized by the AKC and therefore do not meet any standard for the breeds they are being mixed with. it's irresponsible breeders that combine two perfectly good breeds to mix a mutt and then ask for thousands for them. it's WRONG! nothing wrong with a natural mutt, but breeding for them on purpose is not bettering either dog breed involved.

It's ok Rachel....don't have to explain for me. I really don't care what this person thinks of me. I've already stated my beliefs and no futher explanation is necessary, it's a waste of time..

[concretegurl]

Originally Posted by RachelandSadie

i don't recall Mary ever stating that she wouldn't put money on a rescue mutt...she meant she wouldn't support a penny on a breeder who purposefully breeds "designers" and love the all you want, but that doesn't make a breeder a good one if they're going to mix up breeds. what do you think will happen to the two dog breeds you are so much in love with if everyone stopped breeding perfect schnausers and yorkies and just mixed them all with other dogs...eventually like many beautiful breeds in the past...there will be nothing but schnorkies or whatever you called them left and the schnauzers won't exist and go extinct....that's why I am against purposefully breeding mixed.

I doubt Yorkies and Schnauzers are really in danger of that happening-that's actually the exact history of the Yorkie-hhmm. I'm so tired of reading the negative wording or statements people have about hybrids, even if they are actually attacking breeding practices it often comes out differently-it's sad. Capt_noonie, I should apologize I thought you said $3 not $300, maybe I'm just especially hypersensitive lately going into my third trimester but still I think the wording Mardelin used was really harsh. I wasn't trying to specifically "jump on Mardelin" I responded with my shock on the exact words she used, I absolutely agree with the secondary point on the breeding practices, marketing, pricing and other nonsense surrounding hybrids and designers...I think they just took out their frustration with love1yorkie in their wording...hense I commented on was it my sleep deprivation-? I chose not to respond to love1yorkie here because well I'd get banned for even starting my response there with what I have to say to her...
Nice to see so many people jump in to explain what SHE REALLY MEANS for her. Mardelin, "It's ok Rachel....don't have to explain for me. I really don't care what this person thinks of me. I've already stated my beliefs and no futher explanation is necessary, it's a waste of time.." again your wording is just so harsh...a lot of people really seem to take whatever you say as very weighty (you are considered an authority in breeding in may ways) from what I've seen and you have a real opportunity to express something valuable about your perspective instead of just completely discounting something-you're right you don't have to explain any further, to 'this person' or anyone else, apparently it is a waste of time to you-happy holidays...

[FlDebra]

Originally Posted by concretegurl

I doubt Yorkies and Schnauzers are really in danger of that happening-that's actually the exact history of the Yorkie-hhmm. I'm so tired of reading the negative wording or statements people have about hybrids, even if they are actually attacking breeding practices it often comes out differently-it's sad. Capt_noonie, I should apologize I thought you said $3 not $300, maybe I'm just especially hypersensitive lately going into my third trimester but still I think the wording Mardelin used was really harsh. I wasn't trying to specifically "jump on Mardelin" I responded with my shock on the exact words she used, I absolutely agree with the secondary point on the breeding practices, marketing, pricing and other nonsense surrounding hybrids and designers...I think they just took out their frustration with love1yorkie in their wording...hense I commented on was it my sleep deprivation-? I chose not to respond to love1yorkie here because well I'd get banned for even starting my response there with what I have to say to her...
Nice to see so many people jump in to explain what SHE REALLY MEANS for her. Mardelin, "It's ok Rachel....don't have to explain for me. I really don't care what this person thinks of me. I've already stated my beliefs and no futher explanation is necessary, it's a waste of time.." again your wording is just so harsh...a lot of people really seem to take whatever you say as very weighty (you are considered an authority in breeding in may ways) from what I've seen and you have a real opportunity to express something valuable about your perspective instead of just completely discounting something-you're right you don't have to explain any further, to 'this person' or anyone else, apparently it is a waste of time to you-happy holidays...

Now that you know she has a mix rescue pup, you should realize she has nothing against the mixed dogs, but will never contribute a penny to a breeder who purposefully mixes them.

One of the things I dislike the most about mixed breeding is that all of the puppies do not look like mixes. Sometimes there are mixed puppies that show the outward traits of just one of the mixes. With all of these newer fly-by-night registries, the next thing you know someone gets them papers saying they are purebred "whatevers." Vets will even sign saying they "look" like purebred "whatevers." Next thing, someone is breeding one of these newly registered "whatevers" and the litter is registered too! Then somewhere in the line, puppies come out with an anomaly (a throw-back to the mixed breeding) -- and the breeder swears they have partis or rare "whatevers!" It DOES dilute the gene pool! That is why you have to be so careful who you buy from and know they have seen several generations and many litters on both sides of the tree. Too many surprises, especially when you buy from the non-AKC registries, which I would never do.

I think everyone here values all life but I think most here are against the intentional mixed breeding of dogs for so-called designer/hybrid puppies. Developing a new breed should entail years of research into the genetic componentes of each breed, considering all potential positive and negative influences. There should be a bonafide improvement the researchers are after. There should be VOLUMES of genetic research presented before any dogs are bred. Then there should be very descriminate breeding done by only the FEW who have emersed themselves in the science of the cross, with every step documented and results cataloged and reviewed with scrutiny. Then IF AKC decides to accept a new breed, others should be allowed to have specific breeding rights. It should not be a hobby breeders lark or worse a puppy mills greed like most every mixed breeding I have read about. JMO......

And we were doing so well at agreeing with each other lately Can't agree on everything though.

[capt_noonie]

^^^^^I agree with that!

[jencar98]

I agree with everything you've posted above Debra with the exception of including partis in with mixed breeds. AKC does recognize partis as a color variation of yorkshire terriers. One may or may not agree with breeding them, but they are yorkies. I don't agree with marketing them as rare, any more than I think tiny yorkies should be exploited and marketed for their size.

[concretegurl]

Originally Posted by jencar98

I agree with everything you've posted above Debra with the exception of including partis in with mixed breeds. AKC does recognize partis as a color variation of yorkshire terriers. One may or may not agree with breeding them, but they are yorkies. I don't agree with marketing them as rare, any more than I think tiny yorkies should be exploited and marketed for their size.

I've no quams over hijacking this thread and getting off topic since then Op and several others seem to have been banned and suspended...
Partis by nature of genetics are a rarity-recessive gerontology-the throw back gene Debra refers to-it was the intentional crossing of Partis and Parti carriers and "bringing out of the gene" that caused the dominance of the gene and the recent popularity, also the recent proliferation of 'white" being a predominant color displayed on Parti's ect-I'm not standing up for Debra's position on Parti's here, it's one of the things she and I are total opposites on Parti's I see them as a genetic reminder of the creation of Yorkies and "special" -in rarity, which they aren't so much anymore (you can ask her her beliefs on them that's not for me to state here) but... she is right when she refers that Partis are often faked-especially while the AKC refused to recognize them, even after they were given I believe it is only "limited registration based on color variation" am I stating that correctly? Hope so Debra will be all over me! People like to bring out the extreme and if you think you have to screen a breeder-Oh my you really have to scrutinize a Parti breeder! Which is sad, it's such a double standard many reputable Parti breeders believe in their history and breed inclusion as a form of Standard in AKC Yorkie recognition, they work at the perfection and standard adherence the same as any other Yorkie breeder just with a different color variety, yet they catch more flack...
Debra and anyone else,-again I wasn't trying to well anything to Mardelin other than take issue with her wording...Debra...I understand all too well your stance on hybrid dogs-I completely agree with all you said about the issues with irresponsible breeding, but its generalized to me, to any breeding period. I see where the mixing of breeds is overly problematic and now truly understand why even those whom take more precautions in the genetic research and development along with health and temperament certification (like OFA certifying your breeding dogs) of their dogs aren't openly talking about their work with hybrids, breed creation etc-they get crucified and put into a bad breeder category when they may very well do more than most purebred breeders...again I just really don't like double standards, I understand why but I think many don't many just red flag some breeders due to misconception and then assume any purebred breeder to be on the up and up and automatically a "better" breeder...as I've always said before I could easily be seen as the anti-AKC posterchild with my Schnorkie, my Parti Yorkie and my (pure blond EKC) white Miniature Schnauzer, however I believe in the AKC and I truly wish they had more power and more authority to regulate breeding when it comes to encouraging responsible breeding practices associated with those they allow to certify litters etc (you knwo that dog DNA we disagree on-the AKC uses them to test paternity and maturity to verify some dogs in question of linage-just sayin'). also these fly-by-night registries they're money based solely-and as far as vets who vouch for this or that-again all about the mighty dollar I assume-that's especially sad though, then again how many vets work for pup mills etc
' It should not be a hobby breeders lark or worse a puppy mills greed like most every mixed breeding I have read about"-Debra, same is easily said about "purebreds" it is the irresponsible breeding of purebreds that dilute the gene pool more in my mind, but I do see your point-then again look at Briewers, I thought they were exclusively guarded...they getting pretty darn popular with BYB and pup mills here in CA now too..Wow I think I've written a little novel here-oh well it's not like this thread was going in a direction it could have been side tracked form at least it has a more positive sharing of opinions going on now...and well it's still semi on topic of breeding practices right?

[EmGo11]

Originally Posted by concretegurl

I've no quams over hijacking this thread and getting off topic since then Op and several others seem to have been banned and suspended...

Just wanted to clarify...I'm neither banned or suspended

[Rhetts_mama]

I'm failing to see how concretgurl can take a statement about not paying a penny for a hyrid (or mixed breed) and turn it in to being against animals.

Just doesn't compute.

But for the record, I won't pay a dime to anyone who breeds poorly whether they are breeding "pure" or "mixed". And by it's very definition, mixed breeding is breeding done poorly.

[capt_noonie]

Originally Posted by Rhetts_mama

I'm failing to see how concretgurl can take a statement about not paying a penny for a hyrid (or mixed breed) and turn it in to being against animals.

Just doesn't compute.

But for the record, I won't pay a dime to anyone who breeds poorly whether they are breeding "pure" or "mixed". And by it's very definition, mixed breeding is breeding done poorly.

A lot of her posts lately have been contradictory to herself.

But to what I've bolded, I agree.

[FlDebra]

Originally Posted by jencar98

I agree with everything you've posted above Debra with the exception of including partis in with mixed breeds. AKC does recognize partis as a color variation of yorkshire terriers. One may or may not agree with breeding them, but they are yorkies. I don't agree with marketing them as rare, any more than I think tiny yorkies should be exploited and marketed for their size.

???? AKC recognizes them as a DISQUALIFICATION based on OFF-COLOR, not exactly the recognition I would want to use for breeding them. The actual papers for a yorkie puppy only have 4 choices to choose their color -- Blsck/Gold, Black/Tan; Blue/Gold, Blue/Tan. I know you can get the parti's registered but they are not recognized for anything like showing or breeding IAW YTCA ethics and practices.

Since I KNOW there are so many breeders currently creating their own version of "parti's" that are NOT all yorkie, I would not just assume a "parti" is a yorkie, papers notwithstanding.

[capt_noonie]

Originally Posted by FlDebra

???? AKC recognizes them as a DISQUALIFICATION based on OFF-COLOR, not exactly the recognition I would want to use for breeding them. The actual papers for a yorkie puppy only have 4 choices to choose their color -- Blsck/Gold, Black/Tan; Blue/Gold, Blue/Tan. I know you can get the parti's registered but they are not recognized for anything like showing or breeding IAW YTCA ethics and practices.

Since I KNOW there are so many breeders currently creating their own version of "parti's" that are NOT all yorkie, I would not just assume a "parti" is a yorkie, papers notwithstanding.

I've always wondered this. You send in the papers when they are puppies right? How will you know what their adult color will be? At that point they would still be black and tan puppy colors. Do you go off the parents?

[chachi]

Originally Posted by concretegurl

Actually I have read a little about you online regarding Yorkies in show and breeding not that that implies "knowing someone" but I was shocked such a strong statement was made by you,considering what I have heard from you and about you-devaluing an animal completely-really? Anyways you have a mix I SAFELY assume you love and yet you say I wouldn't pay a penny for one...that's a strong statement, my statement was very toned down...yes indiscriminately breeding that's a problem (as I'm sure you know as a breeder-right?) that plagues all breeding genres including purebred, unfortunately it is more prevalent in hybrids, and designer breeding...that's key word but as I said before in my first "strong" statement, which I could understand the devaluing of hybrids, muts, designers considering the market mentality (sales pitched, prices and nonsense) and general breeding practices-but to say not a penny c'mon-that was my issue with your statement-not your beliefs on hybrids-even though I have my own very strong beliefs-I love them, Schnorkies are my favorite breed (they are a hybrid mix of my two favorite standard breeds)...however I was toning down my strong statement and being respectful of your stance {as breeder and show(wo)man of Yorkies, you love them so much you offer free grooming just to continue and ensure a relationship with all the dogs you breed-showing you don't indiscriminately breed, you are well known as a premier Yorkie breeder etc(I'm sure you know your own resume)-even though I know nothing about you}-hence I said, "I understand some people obvious for good reason have their views about purebreds and towards mixes" Nevertheless and especially considering you have volunteer in rescues etc-you know the rule of why a minimum adoption fee is charged, a re-homing fee... here's 'Alvin the Chipmunk' my son's three legged Russian Dwarf Hamster-paid 1,000 pennies for him...okay said what I have to say, still shocked at the statement but this is off topic for this thread-not sure this thread even has any topic (well point) though to be honest!

Your posts are extremely hard to read because you dont put in paragraphs