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-   General Yorkshire Terrier Discussion (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/general-yorkshire-terrier-discussion/)
-   -   Tail docking (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/general-yorkshire-terrier-discussion/195888-tail-docking.html)

Ellie May 02-05-2010 10:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellie May (Post 2989110)
I'll probably regret posting on this thread later, but here goes.

So we should "not" dock tails because it is painful and potentially harmful and only for cosmetic reasons?

Yorkies have a higher c-section rate than a lot of other breeds, probably because they are small. Size is appearance. Appearance is vanity. So now we are back to a cosmetic issue, really. So it could be said that by breeding larger Yorkies, there would be less risk (pain and potential harm) to the mother(s). So we should change this standard too then?
ETA: By larger, I mean larger than the standard now. Even 6 or 7 pound Yorkies are probably at greater risk of whelping complications just because they are so small...

Cerise 02-05-2010 10:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mardelin (Post 2988809)
Here's another food for thought. YTCA now holds Earth Dog Events during their Roving Nationals.......so, the yorkie is now going back to their roots on what they were bred for.......hunting vermin.....

Now that is going back to their roots! That is very interesting.

That info also should come in handy when some unknowing human has a furbaby that proudly brings them a little dead gift, with a big smile and a wagging docked, or undocked tail...LOL (I'm probably the only one laughing at my joke) :D

Britster 02-05-2010 11:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellie May (Post 2989110)
I'll probably regret posting on this thread later, but here goes.

So we should "not" dock tails because it is painful and potentially harmful and only for cosmetic reasons?

Yorkies have a higher c-section rate than a lot of other breeds, probably because they are small. Size is appearance. Appearance is vanity. So now we are back to a cosmetic issue, really. So it could be said that by breeding larger Yorkies, there would be less risk (pain and potential harm) to the mother(s). So we should change this standard too then?
Well, me personally, would LOVE to see larger Yorkies. I think the standard should be upped to 10lbs. I think that'd be GREAT!

I really like how the Poodle has 3 different sizes. Because you get the same breed but in different size packages which is awesome.

mommadog1 02-05-2010 11:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerise (Post 2988795)
No attack here. Just stating the facts...the YTCA standard is a docked tail. Until the miraculous day that changes, the complaints about people docking tails, or complaints against people who love the tail docked on their Yorkies is worthless IMO.
People are not complaining, we are/were having a nice discussion about the practice of it. And there you go again by saying us talking about it is worthless.:mad:

I think I am going to have to walk away from this discussion have a great weekend..

livingdustmops 02-05-2010 11:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mardelin (Post 2989153)
But, if you're speaking about California's AB250, that was voted down in California. YTCA and AKC fought against it. It would have put even the small ethical, reputable breeders out of business. There would have been no more dog shows in California. A similar bill was passed in Florida, very difficult to get a reputable breeder to answer phone calls or e-mails......they've gone underground and some of them have even stopped breeding and showning. Yet, Puppy Mills, Brokers and BYBers are still operating there in the open and selling sick pups.

Yes, there are BYB and small scale mills right here on YT, and you're right because they present themselves as nice and YT members really aren't as knowledgable as they think they can't spot them.
Explain to me how they would have been put out of business..seriously I really want to get my thoughts around this. I have heard it over and over and I just can't see it but I might not be understanding correctly.

mommadog1 02-05-2010 11:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reese1 (Post 2988943)
I see there are several threads now on tail docking.
I wish that people would have as much emotion and passion about
puppy mills, BYB, commercial breeders, etc..

Not that there is only one issue to resolve, but to me large business breeders trump other issues at this point!
People are even more passionate about getting rid of puppy mills. But there are other subjects people feel should also be talked about. Nothing trumps the right to discuss all issues.

livingdustmops 02-05-2010 11:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mommadog1 (Post 2989227)
People are not complaining, we are/were having a nice discussion about the practice of it. And there you go again by saying us talking about it is worthless.:mad:

I think I am going to have to walk away from this discussion have a great weekend..
I agree with you and so glad over the years people have not walked away from issues that no one was comfortable with or thought they couldn't be changed. Good Lord look at the civil rights issue...

mommadog1 02-05-2010 11:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooklynn (Post 2988990)
I tried to make that point in several of my posts regarding this but can't remember which thread it was in.....
I'm going to throw a wrench in the topic LOL....I wish more would worry about those that do not breed to standard and breed poor quality dogs just so the puppies they breed can line their pockets with cash. Or those that breed because I want just one litter so my children can experience the birthing of puppies, or my friends want a puppy out of my cute and pretty pet. Those are the dogs that suffer because ONE the breeder hasn't done their research and think it's easy and then they find out they've either lost the mother and or the puppies and can't understand why this is happening....This is what needs more attention and focus than whether or not docking should or should not be allowed. If it's been allowed within the parent clubs and have been done for many years and it hasn't been proven to hurt the breed health wise then it's not harming the breed. So much more to be passionate about than docking JMHO!!!!

Donna Bird
Then I would recommend starting a thread on that and no hijacking this one;)

Reese1 02-05-2010 11:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mommadog1 (Post 2989248)
People are even more passionate about getting rid of puppy mills. But there are other subjects people feel should also be talked about. Nothing trumps the right to discuss all issues.
I never said that it trumped the right to discuss and that's why I was sharing my thoughts!
I would love to see those passionate about this issue pour that into the puppymill issue as well. Because I would think people against tail docking would also be against the mills, commercial breeders, etc..

mommadog1 02-05-2010 11:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Britster (Post 2989219)
Well, me personally, would LOVE to see larger Yorkies. I think the standard should be upped to 10lbs. I think that'd be GREAT!

I really like how the Poodle has 3 different sizes. Because you get the same breed but in different size packages which is awesome.
I would like to see that as well. Mindy is 10 pounds and she is still small but she is a perfect size and not tiny and fragile. I love my tiny girl too and the ones in between, but Mindy's size is a very nice size.

mommadog1 02-05-2010 11:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reese1 (Post 2989304)
I never said that it trumped the right to discuss and that's why I was sharing my thoughts!
I would love to see those passionate about this issue pour that into the puppymill issue as well. Because I would think people against tail docking would also be against the mills, commercial breeders, etc..
Actually, I don't think anyone has come right out and said they were against docking. I know I haven't.. I have pretty much only seen people talk about what they prefer and there should be a choice to dock or not and still be able to show your dog.

Wylie's Mom 02-05-2010 12:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mommadog1 (Post 2989337)
Actually, I don't think anyone has come right out and said they were against docking. I know I haven't.. I have pretty much only seen people talk about what they prefer and there should be a choice to dock or not and still be able to show your dog.
Yep :). At this point, I just want to understand and hear all sides of it, that's all. Like I said yesterday, I have *no* interest in a law or "banning" bc how I could I support that when I don't feel I have all the info. yet :rolleyes:?

As previously requested, it would be appreciated if folks would use this thread to discuss Tail Docking itself, not whether it is deemed a "worthwhile" discussion.

If it's not a worthwhile discussion - I offer you respect - there are 193,024 other threads where other discussions are occurring. Please respect those who think this discussion is worthwhile.

Reese1 02-05-2010 12:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mommadog1 (Post 2989337)
Actually, I don't think anyone has come right out and said they were against docking. I know I haven't.. I have pretty much only seen people talk about what they prefer and there should be a choice to dock or not and still be able to show your dog.
No, I'm pretty sure some people have expressed they are against it and I think people are entitled to their opinions either for or against.
I'm not debating that, I again would like to see the passion go into other issues that people deem hurtful to animals. I think people have enough passion to channel it into several issues that are extremely important!

MaddiesMommie 02-05-2010 12:37 PM
I certainly think this discussion is worthwhile. I feel ANYTHING that deals with my furkid is worthwhild:rolleyes: treats, food, health, behavior, bed, clothing I read about it all.:)

I am sorry if this has been addressed previously, I sorta got lost in the thread as it split into many discussions. Assuming tail docking is as painful as some have expressed:
Is it practice to use anesthesia when docking tail? Will a vet if asked to?

I am really loving hearing (reading;)) thoughts on this. I have not given much thought to it before.

lladyon 02-05-2010 12:45 PM
My Opinion
 
I have a yorkie, purchased from a highly reputable and internationally well known breeder.

This breeder recently has decided not to continue docking the tales and it was the first litter from which I have purchased my dog.

I have no problems with cleanliness, injury or anything else. I am very very happy I have a dog without a docked tale. My feeling is it is an archaic practise, the benefits of which are unfounded and is a cruelty to animals.

I always smile at how expressive my yorkie's tale is; it is also reminiscent of a wild flower and never looks the same, always changing shape and waving in the wind. I cannot imagine him without it. He easily displays his emotions with it and holds it proudly upright. The only time it was ever down, was when he was ill. The tail is not difficult to care for; it has never been a hazard, it has never been stepped on nor injured in any way.

I highly support progressive changes in animal welfare and feel docking of tales should only be done when absolutely necessary such as required in certain medical/health situations.
Thank you for posting the article.

lladyon:thumbup:


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