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-   General Yorkshire Terrier Discussion (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/general-yorkshire-terrier-discussion/)
-   -   Tail docking (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/general-yorkshire-terrier-discussion/195888-tail-docking.html)

Woogie Man 02-05-2010 08:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mardelin (Post 2988992)
I was instructed on the how to by my vet and my mentor....in the beginning I used a white marker pen and measuring tape.....now it's just much easier to take their tail down and mark and the right point......
It's great that you have a vet that knows how to do it correctly. I think many don't and the breeder will often just let the vet use their own judgment...not being proactive about it.

Woogie Man 02-05-2010 08:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooklynn (Post 2988994)
I always dock about a 1/4 to 1/2 inch into the black just like Mary. I always show my vet where I want them docked and he will mark it where I tell him too and then proceed. I will learn how to do this myself so I know it will be done right. I just haven't had anyone show me how to dock yet.

Donna
It's info like this that makes this thread useful. I'd like to see how to correctly dock a tail become common knowledge. It obviously isn't, as evidenced by the wide range of tail lengths.

Wylie's Mom 02-05-2010 09:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reese1 (Post 2988943)
I see there are several threads now on tail docking.
I wish that people would have as much emotion and passion about
puppy mills, BYB, commercial breeders, etc..

Not that there is only one issue to resolve, but to me large business breeders trump other issues at this point!
I have emotion and passion for ALL of these issues, so I'd prefer to discuss all of them, and not say that this one warrants this kind of consideration and this warrants that kind...:confused:...I don't under stand these kinds of value judgments...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Woogie Man (Post 2988946)
(partial quote) How we have gotten to the point of considering 'any' pain a companion animal may or may not experience to be cruelty while ignoring obvious institutionalized cruelty just boggles my mind.
Just want to clarify that there are several people on this thread who have *not* said at all that we think all/any pain = cruelty. I know I definitely never even approached that angle. Just clarifying. :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jencar98 (Post 2988960)
:thumbup: Exactly! I would much rather see all of this energy and time focused on the real atrocities in the pet industry, and tail docking isn't one of them.
What is a real atrocity vs. a not-real one? How is that determined?

Mardelin 02-05-2010 09:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woogie Man (Post 2989002)
It's great that you have a vet that knows how to do it correctly. I think many don't and the breeder will often just let the vet use their own judgment...not being proactive about it.
In my opinion exhibitor's are abit more critical on the how and where to dock a tail.....not only don't we want a tail that is too long or too short, we don't want any infection to set it. Each one of our pups is a potential show dog, so we don't want anything to happen to them that could ruin them for the ring.

And please don't take that in the wrong way.....I'm not saying that other breeders that don't breed for the ring don't care or don't know how to do it correctly, it's just we've had to learn a bit more quickly to be more precise......

friscomom 02-05-2010 09:12 AM
Quote:
I don't know how this would be accomplished
for yorkies, as long as standards keepers are so confused they don't even let a carefully preserved rat hunter in the rathole. Might get dirty, I guess, or maybe there's a reason.

Are the YTCA and AKC closed, guarded groups or open to the general public?

friscomom 02-05-2010 09:14 AM
Quote:
What is a real atrocity vs. a not-real one? How is that determined?
By successful lawsuit.

Mardelin 02-05-2010 09:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by friscomom (Post 2989030)
for yorkies, as long as standards keepers are so confused they don't even let a carefully preserved rat hunter in the rathole. Might get dirty, I guess, or maybe there's a reason.

Are the YTCA and AKC closed, guarded groups or open to the general public?
YTCA is a pretty closed group and you pretty much have to be invited......it is comprised of members across the country, comprised of breeder/exhibitors. Pretty difficult to get into. It's not all about showing dogs.....it's about canine responsibility, health, welfare, medical research, pet owner/breeder legislation.

AKC is open but, to be a member, you probably have to be a breeder/handler and follow their rules and regulations.

Woogie Man 02-05-2010 09:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom (Post 2989021)

Just want to clarify that there are several people on this thread who have *not* said at all that we think all/any pain = cruelty. I know I definitely never even approached that angle. Just clarifying. :)



What is a real atrocity vs. a not-real one? How is that determined?
No need to clarify, Ann, but you've seen the tone of some of these posts. The OP used the word 'atrocity', which is a word reserved for mass killings, genocide, etc., not something so (relatively) benign as tail docking. Geez, with words like that being tossed about, we'll have no words left to describe the real horrors. Can you imagine a kid reading about the SS, Pol Pot or Idi Amin and asking, "what's an atrocity?" and someone answers, "it's like when they dock a dog's tail". That's sure to give the kid a warped perspective and I believe that's what extremist types attempt to do in using such words.

Woogie Man 02-05-2010 09:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mardelin (Post 2989029)
In my opinion exhibitor's are abit more critical on the how and where to dock a tail.....not only don't we want a tail that is too long or too short, we don't want any infection to set it. Each one of our pups is a potential show dog, so we don't want anything to happen to them that could ruin them for the ring.

And please don't take that in the wrong way.....I'm not saying that other breeders that don't breed for the ring don't care or don't know how to do it correctly, it's just we've had to learn a bit more quickly to be more precise......
I understand completely and fully agree. Whether a dog is a show prospect or not, or whether one is even breeding for the ring or not, tail docking should be done correctly. After all, if we're going to intervene in such an intrusive way, let's at least get it right.

Mardelin 02-05-2010 09:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woogie Man (Post 2989040)
I understand completely and fully agree. Whether a dog is a show prospect or not, or whether one is even breeding for the ring or not, tail docking should be done correctly. After all, if we're going to intervene in such an intrusive way, let's at least get it right.
Agree 100%, if you're going to breed, then take it to the max, learn everything about the breed before you attempt.......

friscomom 02-05-2010 09:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woogie Man (Post 2989037)
No need to clarify, Ann, but you've seen the tone of some of these posts. The OP used the word 'atrocity', which is a word reserved for mass killings, genocide, etc., not something so (relatively) benign as tail docking. Geez, with words like that being tossed about, we'll have no words left to describe the real horrors. Can you imagine a kid reading about the SS, Pol Pot or Idi Amin and asking, "what's an atrocity?" and someone answers, "it's like when they dock a dog's tail". That's sure to give the kid a warped perspective and I believe that's what extremist types attempt to do in using such words.
Extreme words like atrocity are generally (mis-)used in effort to express and convey a huge amount of violent emotion safely. Where there is moderate emotion there will be moderate words which folks can respond to more readily and deal with the actual issues without hysteria. That's why there are moderators.

Wylie's Mom 02-05-2010 09:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woogie Man (Post 2989037)
No need to clarify, Ann, but you've seen the tone of some of these posts. The OP used the word 'atrocity', which is a word reserved for mass killings, genocide, etc., not something so (relatively) benign as tail docking. Geez, with words like that being tossed about, we'll have no words left to describe the real horrors. Can you imagine a kid reading about the SS, Pol Pot or Idi Amin and asking, "what's an atrocity?" and someone answers, "it's like when they dock a dog's tail". That's sure to give the kid a warped perspective and I believe that's what extremist types attempt to do in using such words.
I hear what you're saying Jim, but I think it's up for the individual to decide. There is a member above saying that being a BYB is an "atrocity" - if that's her opinion, I don't think it's my place to tell her it's simply wrong. If the OP finds tail docking an atrocity, well, that's her opinion.

I have my own opinions about what an atrocity is, and yes, one of them is genocide.

What is *really* confusing me (and concerning me) on this thread though, is there seem to be so many people trying to say "please, we should stop discussing this and discuss other things"....um huh? This discussion is 17 pages long, so obviously people want to discuss it :):):).

WinstonMom 02-05-2010 09:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reese1 (Post 2988943)
I see there are several threads now on tail docking.
I wish that people would have as much emotion and passion about
puppy mills, BYB, commercial breeders, etc..

Not that there is only one issue to resolve, but to me large business breeders trump other issues at this point!

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup: I agree 150% (or more)

QuickSilver 02-05-2010 09:34 AM
Ya know, I don't think anyone here feels that tail docking is awful, but puppy mills, hey, not such a big deal. It's not like there isn't attention being paid to that issue (though not enough, not yet). Lots of threads get opened here about various puppy mills, and it was here I learned about brokers posing as rescues and all kinds of other depressing things.

And of course, part of it is that you can't debate without a disagreement. Who's going to have a seventeen page argument over whether or not puppy mills are bad?

Wylie's Mom 02-05-2010 09:35 AM
Can we stick to discussing the actual topic please?

For those who think this topic isn't worthwhile, there are a bunch of other topics here. Please don't post in this thread to just tell people that this discussion isn't worthy, those posts will be deleted going forward.

I posted a while ago about a puppy mill seizure, it's had 12 views, no replies...so...where's that puppy mill passion? Sorry, yeah, I'm confused today folks...:confused:


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