Biewer & Parti-Yorkie---difference?

[WV~Yorkies]

Originally Posted by Pinehaven

Oh my goodness ... You were misinformed that the parti colored yorkie is a result of a "genetic defect". The recessive genes for the parti color, have been in some of our dogs since the beginning of the breed, the gene is called the piebald gene.

That is why I said I may be wrong.. I didn't know but I have been told that several times.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

They can be shown? In all honesty, I'm not debating that...I just didn't know that had changed. So if that's the case it's honestly news to me. I thought they were still automatically DQ'd.

Let me ask you this question and get your opinion on it, and I'm not sure how to phrase it....do you think they should be shown WITH the standard colored blue/gold, or do you think there should be separate categories...a blue/gold AND a Parti? (Does that make sense?)

yes I understand, It does not matter to me if they are judged against the traditionals or in a separte category. But I think it would be more fair for everyone if they did it in a separate category.

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

There are show breeders who admit to breeding dogs over 7 pounds, redlegged yorkies etc. How is that different from breeding the parti color.

The standard is set for judges to judge by, those breeders would never put an over sized yorkie or a red legged yorkie in the ring, but they breed them just the same.

I understand what you are saying. I am not the one that brought up the comparison. The question was, how is one breeding to the standard and one isn't considered that. IMO, that is determined by what you are trying to achieve in the pups you produce. Are you using these faults, but still trying to achieve the 'standard', or not. With Partis, you are trying to get dogs that won't meet the standard.

Again, if I were asked to explain, which I was, that would be my take on it. What I can't figure out is why it was even brought up or why it's relevant to the topic that was being discussed.

Originally Posted by JeanieK

breeding two perfect yorkies together would produce perfect yorkies every time, there would be no issue, but the truth is, it is a balance of many things that make the perfect yorkie.

You are right about that!

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

yes I understand, It does not matter to me if they are judged against the traditionals or in a separte category. But I think it would be more fair for everyone if they did it in a separate category.

I see. I was just curious as to what your thoughts were. I would think they would need a separate "classification" as well. Don't they do this with some spaniels now? But then again, some dogs like Bassets and Beagles and Dobies, they show altogether. Who knows...will be interesting to see what they future holds.

[Pinehaven]

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

Really...I thought it was a pretty basic concept myself. If a breeder is implementing black/gold to enhance a blue/gold coat, then how is that not "aiming to meet the standard?"

First, Blue and Tan is the correct color per the YT standards (not blue and gold as you've indicated above and in previous posts). Just wanting to clarify this so people aren't confused any more then possible in this thread.

So you're saying, that it's ok for someone to use an off colored black and gold or silver and tan to "enhance" the blue and tan coloring in their pups. If that's the case, than I guess it would be just as ok for a parti breeder to use their black and tan parti to enhance the coat color of their steel blue and tan parti carrier pups?

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by Pinehaven

First, Blue and Tan is the correct color per the YT standards (not blue and gold as you've indicated above and in previous posts). Just wanting to clarify this so people aren't confused any more then possible in this thread.

Yep, you are right....sorry for the inaccuracy. In my brain I refer to it as gold everytime because to me, that's what color it looks like.

Originally Posted by Pinehaven

So you're saying, that it's ok for someone to use an off colored black and gold or silver and tan to "enhance" the blue and tan coloring in their pups. If that's the case, than I guess it would be just as ok for a parti breeder to use their black and tan parti to enhance the coat color of their steel blue and tan parti carrier pups?

Sure...I don't see the difference. Then again...I don't see where I ever said that Partis shouldn't be bred,do you? That just seems to be the conclusion that was made. (Which I was actually finding quite humorous.) All I stated was that there was no standard for Partis...and there isn't. Not the same thing, now is it?

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by Perrella

Ok, ok....so, for a layman like me...my take away on this is, a parti yorkie is AKC registered, a biewer is not, but they are under their own club. And neither would meet the standards to be in the show ring....BUT both are BEAUTIFUL, wonderful pets!! So cool !!!!

Yes
except that they can be shown, just not AKC.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

I see. I was just curious as to what your thoughts were. I would think they would need a separate "classification" as well. Don't they do this with some spaniels now? But then again, some dogs like Bassets and Beagles and Dobies, they show altogether. Who knows...will be interesting to see what they future holds.

Yes many other breeds have separate categories for different colors.
I don't understand why the YTCA won't do that. You know, if they did, then they could set the standard and have some control. It is only a matter of time.

[Breezeaway]

Originally Posted by AprilLove

The Biewers have a written standard for conformation that also includes the tri-color and placement of the tri-colors in its standard.

a Parti with a tail, is still a Parti, but in having the tail, does not meet the YT standard as set forth by YTCA

The original biewer standard called for docked tail that was changed in 1998 because it was banned in germany.

[Breezeaway]

Originally Posted by WinstonMom

Please, before I start, I do not wish to offend any of the Biewer or parti breeders or owners. I think these dogs are quite beautiful. I have a strong educational background in genetics and I do find it odd, that if this piebald gene has been around since the beginning of the breed, let's say with Huddersfield Ben, born 1865, that two of these recessive genes did not manage to find each other until 1984 when the first Biewer puppy was supposedly born. Genetically speaking, this is strange. It would seem more likely that the gene was a more recent mutation than a gene that has been around since the beginning of the breed. Once again, please forgive me, I do not want to start a battle, just my thoughts.

It was around, it has been stated and in books that they had them put down.

[Breezeaway]

So Bama do you believe that the Biewer is a separate breed and not a yorkshire terrier?

[WinstonMom]

Originally Posted by Breezeaway

It was around, it has been stated and in books that they had them put down.

Thank you for clarifying. I didn't know this.

[Pinehaven]

Originally Posted by WinstonMom

Please, before I start, I do not wish to offend any of the Biewer or parti breeders or owners. I think these dogs are quite beautiful. I have a strong educational background in genetics and I do find it odd, that if this piebald gene has been around since the beginning of the breed, let's say with Huddersfield Ben, born 1865, that two of these recessive genes did not manage to find each other until 1984 when the first Biewer puppy was supposedly born. Genetically speaking, this is strange. It would seem more likely that the gene was a more recent mutation than a gene that has been around since the beginning of the breed. Once again, please forgive me, I do not want to start a battle, just my thoughts.

I can't speak for the Biewers, but as for the parti's, there are writings in magazines and books, stating that there were white yorkshire terriers in the early 1900's (these writings were printed in the early 1900's). Well known breeders who bred during the 1930's -1980's have also said they had the parti color pop up in their litters. Prior to the acceptance of the parti color into the AKC registry in 2000, parti colored pups were kept quiet, placed in pet homes and sometimes even destroyed.

[SassyAnn101]

Originally Posted by AprilLove

The Biewers have a written standard for conformation that also includes the tri-color and placement of the tri-colors in its standard.

a Parti with a tail, is still a Parti, but in having the tail, does not meet the YT standard as set forth by YTCA

Are the BEAUTIFUL babies in your Advatir Parti or Biewers? One looks kinda like my Haley, and just to look I cannot tell the difference but I am far from an expert

[yorkiegirl2]

Misty I think it would be fair to say that most show breeders do not follow the standard for color.
Look how many Black /Tan/Gold Silver/Tan/Gold off colored Ch dogs are still being bred
or
The one who enhance the color or chalk the white spot for the show ring so they may qualify.
Those breeders follow the same standard except for off color, same as Parti’s.