No Longer Jealous...Now Too Friendly!

[remus]

This forum has long steered away from its original roots a few years back and became a political and social battle ground of some sort for whatever reason.

If I want to have my dog to have a family that will stay within my family I will do so within my rights.
And if you think you are being humane by trying to help stop growth of dog population around the world, why not expand the idea and promote the same idea for humans? Or is human life more important or more sacred in any way?? If so, explain why. Millions of unwanted children, humans roam this earth and pollute this planet. What is the difference between two animals like a dog and a human? One does more harm than the other, you figure it out which one it is. So please, lets not be selective about a global issue of overpopulation.

I don't know why you got offended, I clearly stated that I treat my dog with same respect I would treat any respectable human.
I would not leave my dog in the car while I go shop in a supermarket. Would you leave your children in a car while you shopped? No, A dog? Maybe. So why would someone leave the dog in a car and not a toddler? Is the toddler more important that a pup? If that is the case, we can clearly see what sort of person would let their dog reproduce aimlessly contributing dog dog population and which one would not. I know where I stand.
That double standard I will not understand, and frankly I don't have to.

May I remind you, since this is a free world and a free forum, we are more than welcome to state our opinions without being judgmental!



My apologies go out to the original poster for somehow contributing to diversion from the original topic.

[Cha Cha]

I am sorry anyone would feel this thread got away from the original topic. The thing is, she asked about behavior problems directly related to breeding. I find it hard that someone would not understand that one way to help the problem would be to not breed the two and have them fixed. Is it the only way? No. Personally, I don't think anyone really knows how to solve those problems unless they understand the physical and emotional changes that are going on with the dogs during this time. Also, when you decide to breed your pets, you are absolutely putting their lives and health at risk! Ask any breeder on this board and they will tell you of personal heartaches. There is only one reason I can think of that anyone would want to do this with their beloved family pets that they call family members and children....money!

Now, if others want to compare animals to humans, you would never purposely put your (human) child's life at risk by bringing in some guy, of your choosing, and deciding that you want your child to have a baby by that guy and giving the resulting baby to your sister. Sounds extreme, but I don't think animals belong in the same catagory as humans, and if anyone wants to put them there, would this not be the same thing?

[Cha Cha]

I wanted to add, that yes, in some countries, the human population is controlled. Also, animals, like children, are dependent upon our care. However, animals are dependent upon our management. There is a difference. Children grow up to depend for themselves, animals never do, unless of course, they are wild animals.

[CouversMom]

Originally Posted by remus

This forum has long steered away from its original roots a few years back and became a political and social battle ground of some sort for whatever reason.

If I want to have my dog to have a family that will stay within my family I will do so within my rights.
And if you think you are being humane by trying to help stop growth of dog population around the world, why not expand the idea and promote the same idea for humans? Or is human life more important or more sacred in any way?? If so, explain why. Millions of unwanted children, humans roam this earth and pollute this planet. What is the difference between two animals like a dog and a human? One does more harm than the other, you figure it out which one it is. So please, lets not be selective about a global issue of overpopulation.

I don't know why you got offended, I clearly stated that I treat my dog with same respect I would treat any respectable human.
I would not leave my dog in the car while I go shop in a supermarket. Would you leave your children in a car while you shopped? No, A dog? Maybe. So why would someone leave the dog in a car and not a toddler? Is the toddler more important that a pup? If that is the case, we can clearly see what sort of person would let their dog reproduce aimlessly contributing dog dog population and which one would not. I know where I stand.
That double standard I will not understand, and frankly I don't have to.

May I remind you, since this is a free world and a free forum, we are more than welcome to state our opinions without being judgmental!



My apologies go out to the original poster for somehow contributing to diversion from the original topic.

I have to agree with you. This forum has changed... for the better! If it used to be a group of people encouraging uneducated people to breed, then I'm glad it has!

It is people like you who will ensure that millions of dogs continue to be euthanized annually.

You have every right to state your opinion, but so do I

[capt_noonie]

Originally Posted by remus

This forum has long steered away from its original roots a few years back and became a political and social battle ground of some sort for whatever reason.

This forum and most people are more educated and aware of byb and puppymills. But still there are people out there that don't know about them. I think it's our duty to try to educated even more people. We need to have the more truth out on the net, as a lot of people don't even know about the "teacup" term, etc.

If I want to have my dog to have a family that will stay within my family I will do so within my rights.

So you want to be a byb then.

And if you think you are being humane by trying to help stop growth of dog population around the world, why not expand the idea and promote the same idea for humans?

In China you can only have one child, so this does pertain to humans as well. I'm one of those crazy people that think you should take a test or something to see if you would be a fit parent, b/c there ARE a lot of unwanted children in this world. Also people do spay/neuter themselves, you can get your tubes tied, etc. Lots of babies up for adoption, but people want to make their OWN baby. Adopting a baby is expensive, but MAKING one (or trying to) is free. (Not talking about raising a kid)

Or is human life more important or more sacred in any way?? If so, explain why. Millions of unwanted children, humans roam this earth and pollute this planet. What is the difference between two animals like a dog and a human? One does more harm than the other, you figure it out which one it is. So please, lets not be selective about a global issue of overpopulation.

I don't know why you got offended, I clearly stated that I treat my dog with same respect I would treat any respectable human.
I would not leave my dog in the car while I go shop in a supermarket. Would you leave your children in a car while you shopped? No, A dog? Maybe. So why would someone leave the dog in a car and not a toddler? Is the toddler more important that a pup?

Uh, yes a toddler IS more important than a dog. Also you can't bring a dog into all places, a human baby you can. And yes I HAVE left my dog in the car before.

If that is the case, we can clearly see what sort of person would let their dog reproduce aimlessly contributing dog dog population and which one would not. I know where I stand.

So since I have left my dog in the car that means I would let my dog reproduce aimlessly? And you think breeding your dogs b/c your family members want one, that you are NOT reproducing your dog aimlessly?

That double standard I will not understand, and frankly I don't have to.

May I remind you, since this is a free world and a free forum, we are more than welcome to state our opinions without being judgmental!



My apologies go out to the original poster for somehow contributing to diversion from the original topic.

I also want to add, since you say you are giving the future pups to your family, and not selling them that makes it ok? What if there is some kind of emergency c section or other expenses, are you going to foot the bill or make your family pay? What if your dog dies and then there are no puppies? Have you done any testing for genetic defects? Some don't show up for years. Are your dogs even good representations of the breed? Just b/c a dog is purebred doesn't necessarily mean it fits the standards. For example, Uni is under 7 lbs, and looks like a yorkie, but she is not a good candidate for reproducting. her legs are too long, her coloring is not dark enough, and she has a genetic disorder, LP grade 3.

I was approached by a lady who told me if I ever want to breed her, she has a stud. I say, No way, i would not breed her, she has LP. The lady says, What's that? She contributes to the overpopulation of dogs, and she doesn't even know about one of the most common genetic disorders in toy breeds.

[CobysMom]

Originally Posted by yorkiejunkie

Your problem's are BOTH dominance based.

He is protecting her, because he does not believe you are. Step up, and be the pack leader. You must control there feeding, sleeping, and breeding. Period.

I have 3 unaltered males, and 4 unaltered females. I am the boss! There is no random humping (when the girls are in heat... the boys are separated, from the girls, and each other) But if your female is not in heat, control your males behaviour. Say "NO" and give a touch or a tug, at the shoulder.

I am curious about why you would like to breed, as well. Yes, every breeder started at some point! Do you have a breeding mentor?

Good luck

Thanks for your post. I do tell him to NO and he stops I just didn't know if there was anything else I can do. Again, I just purchased her a couple of weeks ago so this is very new. As far as breeding is concerned, I am a huge yorkie lover and I would love to be able to have a million in my house but that's not possible; however, I want to be able to give good families the opportunity to be loved by a yorkie the way that we have and at an affordable cost. I have seen ridiculous prices for these babies and great families miss out because they can't afford these cuties. Simple as that....nothing deep about my reasons.....Your post was very helpful.

[CobysMom]

Originally Posted by capt_noonie

This forum and most people are more educated and aware of byb and puppymills. But still there are people out there that don't know about them. I think it's our duty to try to educated even more people. We need to have the more truth out on the net, as a lot of people don't even know about the "teacup" term, etc.

So you want to be a byb then.
In China you can only have one child, so this does pertain to humans as well. I'm one of those crazy people that think you should take a test or something to see if you would be a fit parent, b/c there ARE a lot of unwanted children in this world. Also people do spay/neuter themselves, you can get your tubes tied, etc. Lots of babies up for adoption, but people want to make their OWN baby. Adopting a baby is expensive, but MAKING one (or trying to) is free. (Not talking about raising a kid)Uh, yes a toddler IS more important than a dog. Also you can't bring a dog into all places, a human baby you can. And yes I HAVE left my dog in the car before. So since I have left my dog in the car that means I would let my dog reproduce aimlessly? And you think breeding your dogs b/c your family members want one, that you are NOT reproducing your dog aimlessly?



I also want to add, since you say you are giving the future pups to your family, and not selling them that makes it ok? What if there is some kind of emergency c section or other expenses, are you going to foot the bill or make your family pay? What if your dog dies and then there are no puppies? Have you done any testing for genetic defects? Some don't show up for years. Are your dogs even good representations of the breed? Just b/c a dog is purebred doesn't necessarily mean it fits the standards. For example, Uni is under 7 lbs, and looks like a yorkie, but she is not a good candidate for reproducting. her legs are too long, her coloring is not dark enough, and she has a genetic disorder, LP grade 3.

I was approached by a lady who told me if I ever want to breed her, she has a stud. I say, No way, i would not breed her, she has LP. The lady says, What's that? She contributes to the overpopulation of dogs, and she doesn't even know about one of the most common genetic disorders in toy breeds.

Thanks! Well put!

[LilMissy]

Originally Posted by capt_noonie

Also, don't forget that spay/neuter cuts down on the chance of your dog getting different types of cancers.

B*I*N*G*O!

and this is why I haven't even hesitated to spay each and everyone of my pets. I wouldn't want to risk their health to breed them. They are worth more than new, wiggly, cute puppies and $$$ to me.

[CobysMom]

Originally Posted by Britster

Sorry if I came across as rude, I didn't mean to. It just saddens me sooo much to see *so* many animals needing help in shelters yet people continue to breed their dogs. Yeah, every breeder starts somewhere but I think we have plenty of reputable Yorkie breeders in the US and really don't need anymore. You actually will be contributing to the pet over population so I don't know why you say you're not. Any time you bring puppies into the world, that's what happens... you're adding to the already overpopulated species, of whom about 5 million are put down already each year, a lot end up being euthanized from "breeders" who wanted to have puppies for the pure joy of it. There's always family members that want a puppy or friends... over half of the time, once the pups are here, they don't want them anymore. Then what will you do?

I'm generally not so outspoken but this issue is something that really bothers me and I feel strongly about. I only recently became aware of the huge problem and have done extensive research on shelters and puppy mills across America and realize what a huge dog overpopulation we have.... it's simply not necessary to add to it when you can find other already established reputable breeders out there, or go to your local shelter and find great dogs (yes, puppies, too!) I'm glad that you've done your research and like I said, I'm sorry if I offended you. I just feel it's something that needs to be put out there in the open and spread awareness about.

I, too, look at my yorkie like my child. I gave you my advice for your behavior issues and in my humble opinion, I do believe those issues will not stop without being spayed/neutered or having major control over them. Me personally... would never want to live with 2 dogs like that all the time. I'd rather have them as loving family members/pets and not worried all the time about mating. But I do agree with the 2 posters above about dominance issues, as well.

Thank you for your apology and it is great that you an advocate against puppy mills, dog overpopulation, etc. However, without having tunnel vision, think of what you just stated above. You are telling me that we have reputable breeders in the US, my question to you is, how are they not contributing to overpopulation each time they breed? It is the same thing. A puppy is being brought into the same world that you are speaking of in regards to overpopulation. So why would you support them? Every breeder didn't start out being reputable. They created a name for themselves and you or I do not know there true intentions for breeding. You may be supporting a breeder that says one thing to you but in their heart they are breeding just because they can or because they want to create a living off of them. I currently own 2 successful businesses where I can stay home with my children as well as my "doggie babies" so making money is something that I already do without breeding. In my original post, I explained that my boy does stop humping when I tell him to, I just wanted to ensure that I was doing the right thing and to get other suggestions. I don't mind suggestions but I do find it strange when you talk about my desire to breed and give me statistics when in fact none of us would have our fur babies if it wasn't for a breeder having a desire to breed. Each of us love our pets in our own way and there is no right or wrong answer. The only reason I became offended is because you never addressed my issues, you only focused on the fact that stated that I had a desire to breed in the future. It is a free forum and we all have different opinions. That is what truly makes this forum useful because it gives several viewpoints on issues. All I ask is that when you read the issues that are posted, that you address the issue and not so much bash the things that are mentioned that you may feel aren't up to your standards. Everyone on here at some point or another need advice and would like to have it from one yorkie talk family member to another.

[lreed]

I think everyone needs to lighten up. It's your choice whether you breed or not. As to the humping, I have three yorkies, one chihuahua and one siamese cat. Only one of the female yorkies is not neutered, and also one male. The male usually doesn't try to hump unless the female is in heat, but the female is ALWAYS humping our cat. Humping, when not for breeding purposes is just a show of domination....by the way, she humps some of the toys too! But, for all of that they all get along and we just tolerate whatever!

[CouversMom]

Originally Posted by CobysMom

. You are telling me that we have reputable breeders in the US, my question to you is, how are they not contributing to overpopulation each time they breed? It is the same thing. A puppy is being brought into the same world that you are speaking of in regards to overpopulation. So why would you support them?

It absolutely is not. This is where you are wrong. Reputable breeders breed to better the breed, not to produce puppies for their family (children, people who cannot afford them etc). They spend years researching, have a mentor and focus their lives towards the betterment of the breed. You are not the same as a reputable breeder. What you will be doing is the same as a byb.

[CouversMom]

Originally Posted by CobysMom

I have seen ridiculous prices for these babies and great families miss out because they can't afford these cuties. Simple as that....nothing deep about my reasons.....

What do people do who cannot "afford these cuties" run into a health problem with their new cute, ill-bred dog? These are the dogs that end up in rescues or euthanized at shelters. Do you not see how you will be contributing to this?

[CouversMom]

Originally Posted by CobysMom

The only reason I became offended is because you never addressed my issues, you only focused on the fact that stated that I had a desire to breed in the future. It is a free forum and we all have different opinions.

This is where you contradict yourself. She did address your issues; she said to neuter him, and it would solve the problem. You just did not like her answer. Like you said, it is a free forum, and we all have different opinions... just don't get upset when people state theirs

[capt_noonie]

Originally Posted by CobysMom

Again, I just purchased her a couple of weeks ago so this is very new.

You don't even know if she will get big enough to breed. Did you research her parents? How many generations back did you go? Do you know if any genetic issues will come up? If you purchased her from a breeder who didn't give you and spay/neuter contract, I'm pretty sure you didn't.

I want to be able to give good families the opportunity to be loved by a yorkie the way that we have and at an affordable cost. I have seen ridiculous prices for these babies and great families miss out because they can't afford these cuties. Simple as that....nothing deep about my reasons.....Your post was very helpful.

There's a reason why people can't afford certain things. Yorkies are expensive, so is their vet care. if you can't afford the dog in the first place, how can you afford the vet when something goes wrong?

Also, it's not impossible to find a yorkie at a shelter. Adopting one would be a very affordable cost. much less than what you would charge for one of yours.

[capt_noonie]

Originally Posted by lreed

I think everyone needs to lighten up. It's your choice whether you breed or not. As to the humping, I have three yorkies, one chihuahua and one siamese cat. Only one of the female yorkies is not neutered, and also one male. The male usually doesn't try to hump unless the female is in heat, but the female is ALWAYS humping our cat. Humping, when not for breeding purposes is just a show of domination....by the way, she humps some of the toys too! But, for all of that they all get along and we just tolerate whatever!

Some of us will never lighten up about irresponsible breeding. It's your choice to breed or not, yes. It's also your choice if you want to be responsible or not.

It's no secret that we originally intended on breeding Uni before I found out about YT. I had her for 2 yrs already, and was researching about breeding, just simple things like watching youtube videos. It wasn't until I came here that I read about all the horrible things that can go wrong, including death, that I changed my mind completely. Not even taking into consideration I don't know Uni's lineage. I bought her from someone like the OP, someone who just wanted to breed for whatever reason. Lo and behold Uni has LP grade 3. Will probably need surgery in the future, hopefully not though but who knows. We're lucky nothing worse happened, we did NO research before we got her! So now that I know, I will never support a person like that again.

Just like we all know about petshops now. Why would anyone go back and buy another one from a pet shop if you already know they all come from puppymills?