yorkie pup male or female? - Page 6 - YorkieTalk.com Forums

schatzie · 02-23-2005, 06:00 AM

I know this is here nor there and I honestly do hope the breeder makes this right for you...But I was talking to a breeder friend of mine yesterday and told her all about this situation.

She asked me this. "Did the pup get shipped on an airplane?" I advised I did not know. She began to tell me that in the past she had taken pups to the airport for shipping and while waiting for the pups to be loaded onto the aircraft and removed to be cuddled she ALMOST switched pups in their carriers putting them back in. Where as the girl went into the boys kennel and visa versa.

She also mentioned that Continental Airlines has been noticed to REMOVE the pups, play with them and such then put back into the carriers and with a new plastic tie holders on the kennels without prior approval and pups have been switched. I was in shock hearing these stories from her.

Has anybody/breeder ever heard of such things regarding airline employees to be handeling the pups without permission?

Like I said, all this is hear say but still found it to be interesting.

Have you heard back from Toby's breeder yet in reply to your earlier email?

Keep us posted as this truly is an ongoing saga.

simplythi · 02-23-2005, 06:16 AM

Toby was never shipped, I drove 2 hours to pick her up and 2 hours home. I think the breeder has chosen to ignore all my emails, I have emailed her numerous times since Monday and has not received any responses from her. I've also tried calling her cell phone along with her house number. What do you guys suggest I do?

StewiesMom · 02-23-2005, 07:37 AM

I am not going to pretend I am a lawyer yet, but I am a law student. I think that you need to find out the law in your state. Where are you from? I will find some info for you regarding these types of situations. I know its horrible, but the puppy will likely be considered merchandise. You can present the breeder with whatever information we get and tell her that if she doesn't act *soon* to rectify the situation then you will. I do NOT think you should pay her the extra money -- mostly out of principal, but also because this is wrong of her to do. It's not like you are being unreasonable or unruly with her. She should be jumping at the chance to fix the situation.

yorkieagility · 02-23-2005, 08:12 AM

Actually, the breeder do not have to give you the paper unless it is stated in the contract. I know many breeders who have papers on the parents but choose to sell puppy without paper. But honestly is the paper that important? I've always sold my puppies with paper and out of the 8 puppies I ever sold, only 1 registered their dog. I've even tried to help one of the owner registered their dog 2 years after I sold the puppy(they lost the original paper) but they decided they didn't want to after I told them AKC's registration cost.

What gets me is how did you walk out of there with the wrong puppy? Can't believe the breeder didn't realize it until it was pointed out to her! And a week later!! I think if this happened to me I would have been calling you within a couple of hours and very embarrassed.

simplythi · 02-23-2005, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StewiesMom

I am not going to pretend I am a lawyer yet, but I am a law student. I think that you need to find out the law in your state. Where are you from? I will find some info for you regarding these types of situations. I know its horrible, but the puppy will likely be considered merchandise. You can present the breeder with whatever information we get and tell her that if she doesn't act *soon* to rectify the situation then you will. I do NOT think you should pay her the extra money -- mostly out of principal, but also because this is wrong of her to do. It's not like you are being unreasonable or unruly with her. She should be jumping at the chance to fix the situation.

I thank you in advance in assisting me with the needs for my pup. I also thank everyone else on this board for giving me their inputs and advice. What would be the best way for me to approach her from a lawyers point of view?

simplythi · 02-23-2005, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yorkieagility

Actually, the breeder do not have to give you the paper unless it is stated in the contract. I know many breeders who have papers on the parents but choose to sell puppy without paper. But honestly is the paper that important? I've always sold my puppies with paper and out of the 8 puppies I ever sold, only 1 registered their dog. I've even tried to help one of the owner registered their dog 2 years after I sold the puppy(they lost the original paper) but they decided they didn't want to after I told them AKC's registration cost.

What gets me is how did you walk out of there with the wrong puppy? Can't believe the breeder didn't realize it until it was pointed out to her! And a week later!! I think if this happened to me I would have been calling you within a couple of hours and very embarrassed.

The papers are important to me because its like a birth certificate. I walked out with the wrong pup because I didn't think the breeder would make such a careless mistake. Female pups prices can double that of males and I never thought the breeder would be so careless. She didn't realize it herself till I pointed it out. I didn't think to check at the time untill I started noticing my toby's peeing stance.

CC's · 02-23-2005, 11:27 AM

I don't see where you have to do anything. I think the breeder would have to sue you for the difference. You have the pup and it was their mistake. I can't see a judge making you pay the extra money.

As far as the AKC papers go unless you now want to show or breed this pup the are not needed at all. That maybe where she can tell a judge you didn't pay for a papered breeding/show female.

I think I would just leave it be until she did something. The longer you have the pup the better for your case I would think.

schatzie · 02-23-2005, 11:42 AM

We are on now page 6 of 6 pages....Is this thread going to end when someone posts to the end of the page or do we need to begin a new thread to continue the progress of Simplythi's story???? I am just way too deep into this now to see page 6 end without an ending??? (I am not familiar with what happenes once all pages are full on a thread ??)

Buster'sMommy · 02-23-2005, 11:47 AM

I do have one question, on the website that you bought Toby from are those the same Andy and Mandy that she has already sold to you and the other family? If so why does she still have them on there like they can still be sold to someone else?

aimee · 02-23-2005, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by schatzie

We are on now page 6 of 6 pages....Is this thread going to end when someone posts to the end of the page or do we need to begin a new thread to continue the progress of Simplythi's story???? I am just way too deep into this now to see page 6 end without an ending??? (I am not familiar with what happenes once all pages are full on a thread ??)

It will just start a new page

I go on another message board where certain threads are like 100 pages long!

Don't worry, hopefully we'll get to see the end of this -I too am following this really closely, very anxious to see how this turns out

Best of luck to Miss Toby!

YorkieRose · 02-23-2005, 12:23 PM

Pups of this age all squat..some males squat for months and months. The breeder is 100% at fault. If a person knows nothing about animal anatomy and many do not, you trust the breeder to at least know a girl from a boy..and if they do not it is their problem to absorb the loss of money.
Get CKC papers for a birth certificate or even a pet registery for mixed breeds..they a have nice birth certicates. I would let it go because this breeder could get up a fuss with the AKC and I have seen the AKC make some off the wall rulings. AKC does say if the breeder sells an AKC pup, the papers must follow unless stated otherwise.

yorkieagility · 02-23-2005, 12:57 PM

I may be wrong but I think the reason why you want paper is that you want some tangible proof that the puppy is yours. I don't blame you in your situation.

You can sign your dog up with another registry is CKC now. If you really want some sort of registry with AKC without breeder approval then you can apply for a ILP when your dog is older.

I copy and paste the definition of ILP from the AKC website.

Indefinite Listing Privilege Program (ILP): The program that provides purebred dogs a second chance.
There are various reasons why a purebred dog might not be eligible for registration. The dog may the product of an unregistered litter, or have unregistered parents. The dog's papers may have been withheld by its breeder or lost by its owner. Sometimes, it is the dog itself that was "lost." There are many dogs enrolled in the ILP program after they have been surrendered or abandoned, then adopted by new owners from animal shelters or purebred rescue groups. The ILP program allows the dog and owner a second chance at discovering the rewards of participating in AKC events.

simplythi · 02-23-2005, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buster'sMommy

I do have one question, on the website that you bought Toby from are those the same Andy and Mandy that she has already sold to you and the other family? If so why does she still have them on there like they can still be sold to someone else?

she might have forgotten to update her page, mandy and andy on that page is gone, mandy who is my toby.

I'm still waiting for a response from my emails, I've also left numerous messages on her answering machine with no response.

Marie · 02-23-2005, 03:36 PM

When i saw Toby's pic i Thought it was a girl,; then reading all the posts i got confused. Im glad that you finally know your baby is a cute little girl. Regarding the breeder, i really think that she shouldnt charge the differnce being her fault and all. To me I dont really think you need the AKC papers but if is that important to you I guess then u will have to take the breeder to small claims court. I hope everything works out for you. At the end what is important is your baby, so enjoy her.

Breeze · 02-23-2005, 03:47 PM

Have you decided what to do?

What a horrible thing to go through. A mistake that could of been avoided if she was more careful.
So sorry.

02-23-2005, 06:00 AM	#76
schatzie *Moderator Emeritus* Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Tontitown Arkansas Posts: 4,909	I know this is here nor there and I honestly do hope the breeder makes this right for you...But I was talking to a breeder friend of mine yesterday and told her all about this situation. She asked me this. "Did the pup get shipped on an airplane?" I advised I did not know. She began to tell me that in the past she had taken pups to the airport for shipping and while waiting for the pups to be loaded onto the aircraft and removed to be cuddled she ALMOST switched pups in their carriers putting them back in. Where as the girl went into the boys kennel and visa versa. She also mentioned that Continental Airlines has been noticed to REMOVE the pups, play with them and such then put back into the carriers and with a new plastic tie holders on the kennels without prior approval and pups have been switched. I was in shock hearing these stories from her. Has anybody/breeder ever heard of such things regarding airline employees to be handeling the pups without permission? Like I said, all this is hear say but still found it to be interesting. Have you heard back from Toby's breeder yet in reply to your earlier email? Keep us posted as this truly is an ongoing saga. __________________ ~~~~ Schatzie and Ransom ~~~~ Last edited by schatzie; 02-23-2005 at 06:03 AM.

02-23-2005, 07:37 AM	#78
StewiesMom Stewie Rox the Sox Donating Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Chicago Posts: 6,306	I am not going to pretend I am a lawyer yet, but I am a law student. I think that you need to find out the law in your state. Where are you from? I will find some info for you regarding these types of situations. I know its horrible, but the puppy will likely be considered merchandise. You can present the breeder with whatever information we get and tell her that if she doesn't act soon to rectify the situation then you will. I do NOT think you should pay her the extra money -- mostly out of principal, but also because this is wrong of her to do. It's not like you are being unreasonable or unruly with her. She should be jumping at the chance to fix the situation. __________________ Kristy & Stewie

02-23-2005, 11:42 AM	#83
schatzie *Moderator Emeritus* Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Tontitown Arkansas Posts: 4,909	We are on now page 6 of 6 pages....Is this thread going to end when someone posts to the end of the page or do we need to begin a new thread to continue the progress of Simplythi's story???? I am just way too deep into this now to see page 6 end without an ending??? (I am not familiar with what happenes once all pages are full on a thread ??) __________________ ~~~~ Schatzie and Ransom ~~~~

02-23-2005, 12:23 PM	#86
YorkieRose No Longer a Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: South Florida Posts: 8,577	Toby Pups of this age all squat..some males squat for months and months. The breeder is 100% at fault. If a person knows nothing about animal anatomy and many do not, you trust the breeder to at least know a girl from a boy..and if they do not it is their problem to absorb the loss of money. Get CKC papers for a birth certificate or even a pet registery for mixed breeds..they a have nice birth certicates. I would let it go because this breeder could get up a fuss with the AKC and I have seen the AKC make some off the wall rulings. AKC does say if the breeder sells an AKC pup, the papers must follow unless stated otherwise. Last edited by YorkieRose; 02-23-2005 at 12:25 PM.

02-23-2005, 03:36 PM	#89
Marie Mom loves Gucci Donating Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: New York City Posts: 6,427	When i saw Toby's pic i Thought it was a girl,; then reading all the posts i got confused. Im glad that you finally know your baby is a cute little girl. Regarding the breeder, i really think that she shouldnt charge the differnce being her fault and all. To me I dont really think you need the AKC papers but if is that important to you I guess then u will have to take the breeder to small claims court. I hope everything works out for you. At the end what is important is your baby, so enjoy her. __________________ Huggies, Gucci and Marie http://www.dogster.com/?132187 "I have been egged"

02-23-2005, 06:16 AM	#77
simplythi Yorkie Yakker Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 47	Toby was never shipped, I drove 2 hours to pick her up and 2 hours home. I think the breeder has chosen to ignore all my emails, I have emailed her numerous times since Monday and has not received any responses from her. I've also tried calling her cell phone along with her house number. What do you guys suggest I do?

02-23-2005, 08:12 AM	#79
yorkieagility YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: House Of York Posts: 1,079	Actually, the breeder do not have to give you the paper unless it is stated in the contract. I know many breeders who have papers on the parents but choose to sell puppy without paper. But honestly is the paper that important? I've always sold my puppies with paper and out of the 8 puppies I ever sold, only 1 registered their dog. I've even tried to help one of the owner registered their dog 2 years after I sold the puppy(they lost the original paper) but they decided they didn't want to after I told them AKC's registration cost. What gets me is how did you walk out of there with the wrong puppy? Can't believe the breeder didn't realize it until it was pointed out to her! And a week later!! I think if this happened to me I would have been calling you within a couple of hours and very embarrassed.

02-23-2005, 11:27 AM	#82
CC's YT Addict Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 402	I don't see where you have to do anything. I think the breeder would have to sue you for the difference. You have the pup and it was their mistake. I can't see a judge making you pay the extra money. As far as the AKC papers go unless you now want to show or breed this pup the are not needed at all. That maybe where she can tell a judge you didn't pay for a papered breeding/show female. I think I would just leave it be until she did something. The longer you have the pup the better for your case I would think.

02-23-2005, 11:47 AM	#84
Buster'sMommy Yorkie Yakker Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 53	I do have one question, on the website that you bought Toby from are those the same Andy and Mandy that she has already sold to you and the other family? If so why does she still have them on there like they can still be sold to someone else?

02-23-2005, 12:57 PM	#87
yorkieagility YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: House Of York Posts: 1,079	I may be wrong but I think the reason why you want paper is that you want some tangible proof that the puppy is yours. I don't blame you in your situation. You can sign your dog up with another registry is CKC now. If you really want some sort of registry with AKC without breeder approval then you can apply for a ILP when your dog is older. I copy and paste the definition of ILP from the AKC website. Indefinite Listing Privilege Program (ILP): The program that provides purebred dogs a second chance. There are various reasons why a purebred dog might not be eligible for registration. The dog may the product of an unregistered litter, or have unregistered parents. The dog's papers may have been withheld by its breeder or lost by its owner. Sometimes, it is the dog itself that was "lost." There are many dogs enrolled in the ILP program after they have been surrendered or abandoned, then adopted by new owners from animal shelters or purebred rescue groups. The ILP program allows the dog and owner a second chance at discovering the rewards of participating in AKC events.

02-23-2005, 03:47 PM	#90
Breeze Puppy Luv Donating Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Canada Posts: 2,678	Have you decided what to do? What a horrible thing to go through. A mistake that could of been avoided if she was more careful. So sorry.