Warning biewer owners/buyers!!!!

[GreenwoodBiewer]

Originally Posted by vwill

Well said! These are my feelings too. I know it is a lot deeper issue for breeders, but it leaves us pet owners wondering "Do I have a good Biewer or a bad Biewer?"

Well.. In my opinion.. if you have a Biewer, you have a GOOD Biewer. They are a wonderful little dog and you should be very happy with yours.

This is such a simple thing but some want to make is sooo complicated.. Why I wonder???

The Biewer came from Two Yorkies.. The Biewer is a tri-colored Yorkie. ALL three of the active Biewer clubs in this country have the same foundation stock.. they all came from Germany, many from the same lines, many from the same litters.

When we bought these dogs, they were a tri-colored yorkie, a VARIANT of a yorkshire terrier. In Germany, Tri colored yorkies are registered as a Biewer.. if in the same litter, there are traditional colored Yorkie puppies (say if one parent was a yorkie, one a Biewer) those puppies are registered as Yorkies. So simple, much like you have a black cocker or a parti cocker or a ASCOB.

Somehow, when they crossed the waves, to some they became a different breed and it's only happened in the last few years.. presto!

Why?? Because to gain AKC acceptance, the Biewer can not come in as a variant of a yorkie.. the YTCA won't allow it! Sooo.. What to do OOOH... make it a mix of 2 or three other dogs, call it something different, say it's something differnet ... then sneak in

The problem is that some of the people who have the SAME lines are saying.. wait a minute.. WE don't have mutts.. we have a purebred dog and so do YOU!

The dogs are the same dog.. they are NO different. If they are GOING to be a differnet breed, it has to be something that is being done to them now and moving forward.. nothing that was done previously. Some will say they are breeding only Biewer to Biewer so that makes them a different breed.. not sure if that flys or not.

-Diana

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by vwill

I very much agree with you and that shouldbe the issue, but what I was referring to is that the topic seems to turn into a good vs. bad Biewer CLUB...so it leaves the pet owner wondering is my Biewer in the good group or the bad group? The "dissention in the ranks" (to quote Izzy Princess) to me is what is scary as a pet owner and confusing -- and gives me very little peace of mind.

You're right, but as I said, arguing amongst like clubs and cross clubs defeats the original content of this thread......Testing and standing together to help stamp out these diseases. One of the components of being a responsible breeder.....If one cares about animals, that should be one of the focuses.

[bailey12]

I find it interesting every time anytime biewers are mentioned it always come back to the same discussion. This particular thread is about health testing. The test does tell if a dog has or is a carrier for specific genetic mutations. Are there others? Definitely. I don't believe anyone is trying to state otherwise. But it is another tool we have to try to ensure we are doing the best we can for the health of the biewer. I don't see how that can be something to place a big "warning" sign on, as if it is a bad thing. Choose to test your dogs or not, that is entirely up to each individual person, regardless of the breed of the dog. I wish there were definitive tests for everything, humans and animals alike, but there aren't. All we can do is use what is available to us. Juliet

[scrapindee]

If this thread is about testing, why aren't the testing questions being answered Juliet????

[bailey12]

Dee, I think the questions have been answered, except maybe for the name of the lab. Go to the BTRA website, and there is information for anyone who wants to look at it. I'm assuming that is where you got the list of mutations specific to the diseases you posted. Again, nobody has to have this test done and everyone can have this test done. It's a personal choice and it's information. Juliet

[scrapindee]

Juliet,

The questions have not been answered here or on the BTCA website. Most of the folks here who have been asking questions are still waiting for answers. Maybe, you should go back to IRMaxines' last posts where she specifically wrote out the questions. Double speak and end running around the questions is words but not answers.

Here is the question: Yes or NO: Is the Biewer Terrier a different dog breed than a Biewer Yorkie, Biewer, Biewer a la pom pon, Yorkshire Terrier, or a Yorkie Terrier??????

[kpstoybox]

Originally Posted by GreenwoodBiewer

Well.. In my opinion.. if you have a Biewer, you have a GOOD Biewer. They are a wonderful little dog and you should be very happy with yours.

This is such a simple thing but some want to make is sooo complicated.. Why I wonder???

The Biewer came from Two Yorkies.. The Biewer is a tri-colored Yorkie. ALL three of the active Biewer clubs in this country have the same foundation stock.. they all came from Germany, many from the same lines, many from the same litters.

When we bought these dogs, they were a tri-colored yorkie, a VARIANT of a yorkshire terrier. In Germany, Tri colored yorkies are registered as a Biewer.. if in the same litter, there are traditional colored Yorkie puppies (say if one parent was a yorkie, one a Biewer) those puppies are registered as Yorkies. So simple, much like you have a black cocker or a parti cocker or a ASCOB.

Somehow, when they crossed the waves, to some they became a different breed and it's only happened in the last few years.. presto!

Why?? Because to gain AKC acceptance, the Biewer can not come in as a variant of a yorkie.. the YTCA won't allow it! Sooo.. What to do OOOH... make it a mix of 2 or three other dogs, call it something different, say it's something differnet ... then sneak in

The problem is that some of the people who have the SAME lines are saying.. wait a minute.. WE don't have mutts.. we have a purebred dog and so do YOU!
The dogs are the same dog.. they are NO different. If they are GOING to be a differnet breed, it has to be something that is being done to them now and moving forward.. nothing that was done previously. Some will say they are breeding only Biewer to Biewer so that makes them a different breed.. not sure if that flys or not.

-Diana

Thank you!! Very well said!!

[kalina82]

Originally Posted by GreenwoodBiewer

Well.. In my opinion.. if you have a Biewer, you have a GOOD Biewer. They are a wonderful little dog and you should be very happy with yours.

This is such a simple thing but some want to make is sooo complicated.. Why I wonder???

The Biewer came from Two Yorkies.. The Biewer is a tri-colored Yorkie. ALL three of the active Biewer clubs in this country have the same foundation stock.. they all came from Germany, many from the same lines, many from the same litters.

When we bought these dogs, they were a tri-colored yorkie, a VARIANT of a yorkshire terrier. In Germany, Tri colored yorkies are registered as a Biewer.. if in the same litter, there are traditional colored Yorkie puppies (say if one parent was a yorkie, one a Biewer) those puppies are registered as Yorkies. So simple, much like you have a black cocker or a parti cocker or a ASCOB.

Somehow, when they crossed the waves, to some they became a different breed and it's only happened in the last few years.. presto!

Why?? Because to gain AKC acceptance, the Biewer can not come in as a variant of a yorkie.. the YTCA won't allow it! Sooo.. What to do OOOH... make it a mix of 2 or three other dogs, call it something different, say it's something differnet ... then sneak in

The problem is that some of the people who have the SAME lines are saying.. wait a minute.. WE don't have mutts.. we have a purebred dog and so do YOU!

The dogs are the same dog.. they are NO different. If they are GOING to be a differnet breed, it has to be something that is being done to them now and moving forward.. nothing that was done previously. Some will say they are breeding only Biewer to Biewer so that makes them a different breed.. not sure if that flys or not.

-Diana

thank you for posting this. It does clear up WHY they are trying to say their biewers are mixed breeds and totally different from the biewers in other clubs.

As for the main purpose of this thread, i really wish the questions posed in the beginning of the thread would be answered.

[bailey12]

Dee, I'm not sure the relevance of the last question as it pertains to the post about health testing, but I will tell you what I believe. Please be clear I am speaking only for myself. I believe the biewer is a different breed than the yorkshire terrier. I believe we, as biewer owners, have the same breed of dogs. I believe that is where much of the break down between the different clubs occurs. Some people/clubs believe they have biewer yorkshire terriers and some believe the biewer is it's own breed. Juliet

[kalina82]

Originally Posted by bailey12

Dee, I'm not sure the relevance of the last question as it pertains to the post about health testing, but I will tell you what I believe. Please be clear I am speaking only for myself. I believe the biewer is a different breed than the yorkshire terrier. I believe we, as biewer owners, have the same breed of dogs. I believe that is where much of the break down between the different clubs occurs. Some people/clubs believe they have biewer yorkshire terriers and some believe the biewer is it's own breed. Juliet

i don't understand. how can you believe biewer owners have the same breed of dog and also believe its a separate breed? If you have the same biewers as breeders in different clubs how can they be different breeds if they all originated from the same two dogs? I"m honestly asking...not trying to stir the pot.

[Krystee]

Originally Posted by kalina82

i don't understand. how can you believe biewer owners have the same breed of dog and also believe its a separate breed? If you have the same biewers as breeders in different clubs how can they be different breeds if they all originated from the same two dogs? I"m honestly asking...not trying to stir the pot.

I hope it's okay if I ask this question but it's something that I have been wondering about since I joined YT and started learning about Biewers. I don't really have an opinion on them (except that they are cute ) I'm just interested.
I have been following this thread... do some believe that is a different breed because they truly think the Biewer was really the result of the Shih tzu (or was it the Lhsao) and Yorkie and not 2 Yorkies.. like someone mentioned in another post.

Also, if they were the result of 2 Yorkies, wouldn't there have to be inbreeding to keep the "breed" going. Doesn't that create a higher chance of genetic defects? Has this ever happened again with a different breeder and 2 Yorkies?

Again, I'm only asking because I'm curious and want to know more about them.

[bailey12]

Kalina 82, I do believe both of those things. I'll try to be more clear, if I can. I believe the biewer is a separate breed from the yorkshire terrier. Other people/clubs don't believe this. It doesn't in any way change the fact we have related dogs and related lines. It means we (people/clubs), have different definitions of what the biewer is. I believe what I do for specific reasons, as do others who believe differently than I do. It doesn't make the dogs different breeds because they are "owned" by people who have different opinions on whether or not they are a biewer or a biewer yorkshire terrier. Juliet

[kalina82]

Originally Posted by bailey12

Kalina 82, I do believe both of those things. I'll try to be more clear, if I can. I believe the biewer is a separate breed from the yorkshire terrier. Other people/clubs don't believe this. It doesn't in any way change the fact we have related dogs and related lines. It means we (people/clubs), have different definitions of what the biewer is. I believe what I do for specific reasons, as do others who believe differently than I do. It doesn't make the dogs different breeds because they are "owned" by people who have different opinions on whether or not they are a biewer or a biewer yorkshire terrier. Juliet

do you think they are different breeds like the yorkie is a different bred from the shih-tzu, or do you think they are different like the ASCOB Cocker Spaniel and the Parti Cocker Spaniel?

[Pruett]

Originally Posted by kalina82

thank you for posting this. It does clear up WHY they are trying to say their biewers are mixed breeds and totally different from the biewers in other clubs.

As for the main purpose of this thread, i really wish the questions posed in the beginning of the thread would be answered.

It doesn't clear up anything, if you want to know what the BTCA believes and is doing, contact a board member and ask them. Don't rely on nescient statements made my people that have never talked to nor been a member of the club.

[Pruett]

Originally Posted by scrapindee

Juliet,

The questions have not been answered here or on the BTCA website. Most of the folks here who have been asking questions are still waiting for answers. Maybe, you should go back to IRMaxines' last posts where she specifically wrote out the questions. Double speak and end running around the questions is words but not answers.

Here is the question: Yes or NO: Is the Biewer Terrier a different dog breed than a Biewer Yorkie, Biewer, Biewer a la pom pon, Yorkshire Terrier, or a Yorkie Terrier??????

You already know what it is. You told Dog Fancy magazine that it is a Biewer Terrier.