Warning biewer owners/buyers!!!!

[Pruett]

Originally Posted by bchgirl

The biewer originated in Germany in a kennel owned by Werner and Gertrude Biewer. He named the dogs Biewer Yorkshire al pom pon. In 1989 the dogs were accepted as a breed of their own with the ACH German e.V.

The dogs are shown in Germany and other countries under this standard.
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In Germany the dogs are still called by the original name.

Unless I am incorrect....the BTCA does not consider their biewer terriers the same breed.

HTH.

Mr. Biewer named the dogs Biewer Yorkshire Terrier a la Pom Pon. I have stated many times that it was a typo on one of the papers they signed, and that is why the ACH registration papers of ALL his dogs say "Biewer Yorkshire Terrier a la Pom Pon".

In Germany they are called Biewer Yorkshire Terrier a la Pom Pon, nothing more, nothing less.

The standard that you have posted was accepted in 2007 and is the standard that the Biewer was supposed to have been judged under all this time. This is the standard that Mrs. Biewer, and Gunter Knoben collaborated on before our visit to Germany.

Farbe gold und blue, white erlaubt (white-blue/black-gold), symmetrisch gefärbt.
Gold and blue, white allowed (white-blue/black-gold), symmetrical color.

All dogs came from the gray wolf, but we don't call our dogs Yorkshire Gray Wolves, or Biewer Gray Wolves or Japanese Gray Wolves?????
We have said many times that the dogs were probably the offspring of an accidental breeding since the Streamglen kennel also raised Shih Tzu's. I'm not going to go in the history again. What happened in the past, is, what it is.

We are now moving forward to develop the healthiest foundation we can. If anyone wants to help great, give us a call. If not, continue to register your dogs with the IBC, CKC(American), or ???? and help flood the world with what ever.

[bchgirl]

That is still the standard the dogs are shown under in Germany and other countries. It hasn't changed. The breed still exists. There are breeders in this country who are still maintaining the heritage of the breed's German roots and breeding according to the standard of the breed's country of origin.

BTCA is developing a "new breed"...the biewer terrier; according to the website.

I don't mind that a another standard is in place for biewer terriers. It should be expected....it's a different breed.

[IRMaxine]

HELLO!! EXCUSE ME!!!
THIS THREAD IS TO DISCUSS AND GET SOME TRUTHS CONCERNING THE TESTING OF THE BIEWER BREED --IF YOU WANT TO ARGUE ABOUT THE STANDARD TAKE IT TO ANOTHER THREAD PLEASE- MY QUESTIONS STILL STAND AS THEY HAVE NOT BEEN ANSWERED AS YET-----

Please share with us the name of the laboratory that are doing these mutation tests for you-
What mutations have been identified for the Biewer breed?
Which specific diseases are you testing the Biewers for?
If the toy breed mutations are the same for the Biewer Terrier, wouldn't the mutations be the same for the Biewer ala Pom Pon, Biewer Yorkshire Terrier, Biewer Yorkie, Biewer and the Yorkshire Terrier?

[Pruett]

Originally Posted by bchgirl

That is still the standard the dogs are shown under in Germany and other countries. It hasn't changed. The breed still exists. There are breeders in this country who are still maintaining the heritage of the breed's German roots and breeding according to the standard of the breed's country of origin.

BTCA is developing a "new breed"...the biewer terrier; according to the website.

I don't mind that a another standard is in place for biewer terriers. It should be expected....it's a different breed.

What am I missing? First, you proudly put a link up of the standard that is being used in Germany. I agree with you on the standard and then you say we use a different standard because we have a different breed? This is the standard that Mrs. Biewer has decided best fits the breed, and it is the standard that we also use.

Are you saying that Mrs. Biewer knows nothing about the breed, and that her opinion means nothing? Sorry, but I'm not understanding what you're getting at.

[kalina82]

Originally Posted by Pruett

Mr. Biewer named the dogs Biewer Yorkshire Terrier a la Pom Pon. I have stated many times that it was a typo on one of the papers they signed, and that is why the ACH registration papers of ALL his dogs say "Biewer Yorkshire Terrier a la Pom Pon".

In Germany they are called Biewer Yorkshire Terrier a la Pom Pon, nothing more, nothing less.

The standard that you have posted was accepted in 2007 and is the standard that the Biewer was supposed to have been judged under all this time. This is the standard that Mrs. Biewer, and Gunter Knoben collaborated on before our visit to Germany.

Farbe gold und blue, white erlaubt (white-blue/black-gold), symmetrisch gefärbt.
Gold and blue, white allowed (white-blue/black-gold), symmetrical color.

All dogs came from the gray wolf, but we don't call our dogs Yorkshire Gray Wolves, or Biewer Gray Wolves or Japanese Gray Wolves?????
We have said many times that the dogs were probably the offspring of an accidental breeding since the Streamglen kennel also raised Shih Tzu's. I'm not going to go in the history again. What happened in the past, is, what it is.

We are now moving forward to develop the healthiest foundation we can. If anyone wants to help great, give us a call. If not, continue to register your dogs with the IBC, CKC(American), or ???? and help flood the world with what ever.

so your basing your club off a probability? This gets brought up in every single thread on biewers here because your club will not fully answer questions. Even your website is lacking information. You say we've been over this over and over, and we have, but each time questions still aren't answered.

There are a lot of people here that are interested in owning a biewer so as buyers we would like truthful and whole pieces of information. You get so defensive about things when some people are just asking questions out of curiosity and not malice. I still don't understand why you think the biewer terrier is different from the other biewers. They all started from two yorkies. Just because there is white on them your going to assume that a shih-tzu was thrown into the mix? And your basing this on a DNA test for mutts that isn't 100% accurate? Pure bred dogs have been tested and there results aren't 100% of so and so breed. There are probabilities of other breeds in those too because its not meant to test on purebreds. It was made for people with mixed breeds who wanted an idea of what their dog was made up of. I've known many people who have gotten the test done on their mixed breeds and the results are ridiculous sometimes.

A lot of us just don't understand why you think these tests are accurate enough to say that your biewers are different from the other biewers. If you get the AKC to accept the Biewer Terrier, what is going to happen when it finally accepts the other Biewer yorkshire terrier a la pom pon dogs (or whatever they're gonna be called)? how can you have two breeds which are clearly very similar under two different breed names? has this happened before with other breeds?

[kalina82]

Originally Posted by IRMaxine

HELLO!! EXCUSE ME!!!
THIS THREAD IS TO DISCUSS AND GET SOME TRUTHS CONCERNING THE TESTING OF THE BIEWER BREED --IF YOU WANT TO ARGUE ABOUT THE STANDARD TAKE IT TO ANOTHER THREAD PLEASE- MY QUESTIONS STILL STAND AS THEY HAVE NOT BEEN ANSWERED AS YET-----

Please share with us the name of the laboratory that are doing these mutation tests for you-
What mutations have been identified for the Biewer breed?
Which specific diseases are you testing the Biewers for?
If the toy breed mutations are the same for the Biewer Terrier, wouldn't the mutations be the same for the Biewer ala Pom Pon, Biewer Yorkshire Terrier, Biewer Yorkie, Biewer and the Yorkshire Terrier?

i'm sorry but your more then likely NOT going to get your questions answered by them. they unfortunately do not like to share this with the general public.

[Mardelin]

I think the whole purpose of the thread is to find out about Genetic Disease Testing. Not to go on about where the Biewer, so and so or the Biewer so and so was made up of.

Yorkies and Biewers share a commond bond....and argueing and being defensive will not get anyone anywhere. We should all be working towards a goal of stamping out Genetic Diseases.

[bchgirl]

Originally Posted by Pruett

What am I missing? First, you proudly put a link up of the standard that is being used in Germany. I agree with you on the standard and then you say we use a different standard because we have a different breed? This is the standard that Mrs. Biewer has decided best fits the breed, and it is the standard that we also use.

Are you saying that Mrs. Biewer knows nothing about the breed, and that her opinion means nothing? Sorry, but I'm not understanding what you're getting at.

The standard Mrs Biewer signed is identical to the standard in which I provided a link. The standard for a biewer terrier is not. As seen here....the biewer terrier standard and beneath that...the standard Mrs. Biewer signed.

Biewer Terrier Standard

They are not identical. Specifically the following is different...the coat, the head coloring...biewer terriers includes bi-colors, the tail set, and the weight.

I have read repeatedly the biewer terrier is a breed being developed in the US...the other was developed in Germany. I have been asking for clarification so that I won't be accused of providing misinformation...and not received a response. Does BTCA consider biewer terriers a separate breed or not?

[bchgirl]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

I think the whole purpose of the thread is to find out about Genetic Disease Testing. Not to go on about where the Biewer, so and so or the Biewer so and so was made up of.

Yorkies and Biewers share a commond bond....and argueing and being defensive will not get anyone anywhere. We should all be working towards a goal of stamping out Genetic Diseases.

In doing my own research on the testing method...while I applaud any breeder of any breed attempting to eliminate genetic illnesses in their breeds...the fault of this testing method is it simply eliminates whether or not the breeding pair has the disease and not if they are carriers. Unfortunately it is carriers of some diseases...when mated with another carrier causes the disease or condition in the puppy.

[bailey12]

BCH, it is my understanding the test does tell if a dog is a carrier or not. Juliet

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by bailey12

BCH, it is my understanding the test does tell if a dog is a carrier or not. Juliet

Absolutely not. However, as in the Doberman, the VWD test does.

[Izzy Princess]

OK not to be funny or anything but I want to share my story of last night when walking Cosmo. On our walk several people asked me one of these two questions:

"Oh is that a Yorkie?" or "Is that some type of Yorkie?"

See you breeders, club members can banter all you want about the specifics of the breed, blood testing for health issues but we as buyers (for pet quality) just love them and they are just cute as a button. Oh and when people ask me what breed he is I don't have time to go into an hour length history..I just say Cosmo is a Biewer Yorkshire Terrier..and the response is..oh he is so cute and we are done!

With all the dissention in the ranks between clubs do you think that pet quality buyers will get turned off by all of this?

K done posting in this thread.

[vwill]

Originally Posted by Izzy Princess

OK not to be funny or anything but I want to share my story of last night when walking Cosmo. On our walk several people asked me one of these two questions:
"Oh is that a Yorkie?" or "Is that some type of Yorkie?"
See you breeders, club members can banter all you want about the specifics of the breed, blood testing for health issues but we as buyers (for pet quality) just love them and they are just cute as a button. Oh and when people ask me what breed he is I don't have time to go into an hour length history..I just say Cosmo is a Biewer Yorkshire Terrier..and the response is..oh he is so cute and we are done!
With all the dissention in the ranks between clubs do you think that pet quality buyers will get turned off by all of this?K done posting in this thread.

Well said! These are my feelings too. I know it is a lot deeper issue for breeders, but it leaves us pet owners wondering "Do I have a good Biewer or a bad Biewer?"

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by vwill

Well said! These are my feelings too. I know it is a lot deeper issue for breeders, but it leaves us pet owners wondering "Do I have a good Biewer or a bad Biewer?"

Exactly, that is why testing should be the number one issue. To insure that the public gets a good quality dog, whatever the breed. Knowing that your dog is healthy gives you peace of mind.

[vwill]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

Exactly, that is why testing should be the number one issue. To insure that the public gets a good quality dog, whatever the breed. Knowing that your dog is healthy gives you peace of mind.

I very much agree with you and that shouldbe the issue, but what I was referring to is that the topic seems to turn into a good vs. bad Biewer CLUB...so it leaves the pet owner wondering is my Biewer in the good group or the bad group? The "dissention in the ranks" (to quote Izzy Princess) to me is what is scary as a pet owner and confusing -- and gives me very little peace of mind.