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Old 05-11-2009, 07:39 PM   #1
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For the life of me, I don't understand why people say BYB (backyard breeder) like it's a cuss word...I think most people that are BYB's are usually morally respectable people...For instance, I bought an English Mastiff, 11 years ago for $1800 from a big ol' show/breeder outfit in Kansas...I lived on a small cattle ranch, in Texas (we sold the calves), and my husband (at the time) traveled alot, so we got the mastiff for my protection and also planned to breed and sell her pups too...Both her parents came w/clear hip tests, and all the hoop-la that goes w/it, and she was guaranteed, after the 18 month x-rays...Unfortunately, after her x-rays, it was determined she had severe hip dysplasia...I contacted the breeder and she informed me I could send copies of the x-rays and return the dog for another pup...YEAH RIGHT! Ya' think I'm going to ship my beloved pet back to Kansas, on a plane, and have another pup flown back to me...I don't think so! We would never think of breeding her, under the circumstances, and we durn sure wouldn't send her back, like damaged goods...I loved her w/all my heart, and took care of her, until she couldn't get up anymore at 9 1/2 years old...It was the very reputable show/breeder that was willing to take our sweet Pebbles (yeah, I know, ironic name for a mastiff) back to God knows where, and give us a another pup, not a BYB...I got my Apple from a broker (fancypups.com) that strives very hard to get healthy pups from BYB's who love and care for the parents of the pups, and the pups are right there w/the owners in a loving home...They've been in business for many many years, and have known these people for years...Over the years, they have had very few complaints....Occasionally something will be wrong w/a pup, but, as you can see from my story, it can also go wrong w/high powered breeders of show dogs, etc... They absolutely do not buy from puppy mills, and detest this practice...As you can see, it doesn't take a reputable breeder that shows dogs to guarantee a perfect puppy...In life, sometimes things go wrong w/humans and w/dogs...I don't know why I felt the need to tell you all how I feel, I just did....It just seems like the BYB's are getting a real bad wrap...
BTW, I don't ever plan to breed Apple, she's just my little pookie doodle to love and spoil for as long as we're together....
Maggie
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Old 05-11-2009, 07:40 PM   #2
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I understand how you feel =/..
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Old 05-11-2009, 07:48 PM   #3
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For the life of me, I don't understand why people say BYB (backyard breeder) like it's a cuss word...I think most people that are BYB's are usually morally respectable people...For instance, I bought an English Mastiff, 11 years ago for $1800 from a big ol' show/breeder outfit in Kansas...I lived on a small cattle ranch, in Texas (we sold the calves), and my husband (at the time) traveled alot, so we got the mastiff for my protection and also planned to breed and sell her pups too...Both her parents came w/clear hip tests, and all the hoop-la that goes w/it, and she was guaranteed, after the 18 month x-rays...Unfortunately, after her x-rays, it was determined she had severe hip dysplasia...I contacted the breeder and she informed me I could send copies of the x-rays and return the dog for another pup...YEAH RIGHT! Ya' think I'm going to ship my beloved pet back to Kansas, on a plane, and have another pup flown back to me...I don't think so! We would never think of breeding her, under the circumstances, and we durn sure wouldn't send her back, like damaged goods...I loved her w/all my heart, and took care of her, until she couldn't get up anymore at 9 1/2 years old...It was the very reputable show/breeder that was willing to take our sweet Pebbles (yeah, I know, ironic name for a mastiff) back to God knows where, and give us a another pup, not a BYB...I got my Apple from a broker (fancypups.com) that strives very hard to get healthy pups from BYB's who love and care for the parents of the pups, and the pups are right there w/the owners in a loving home...They've been in business for many many years, and have known these people for years...Over the years, they have had very few complaints....Occasionally something will be wrong w/a pup, but, as you can see from my story, it can also go wrong w/high powered breeders of show dogs, etc... They absolutely do not buy from puppy mills, and detest this practice...As you can see, it doesn't take a reputable breeder that shows dogs to guarantee a perfect puppy...In life, sometimes things go wrong w/humans and w/dogs...I don't know why I felt the need to tell you all how I feel, I just did....It just seems like the BYB's are getting a real bad wrap...
BTW, I don't ever plan to breed Apple, she's just my little pookie doodle to love and spoil for as long as we're together....
Maggie

I have heard horrible things about fancypups. I would always after all I learned on here after over 4 years buy from a reputable show breeder only, see their home, know their lines, see the parents.... Buying from a broker ALWAYS is taking a big risk.

Here is one thread about fancypups:

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/bre...om-beware.html
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Old 05-11-2009, 07:55 PM   #4
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I guess due to my not showing yorkies, even tho I try to improve.. health coming first... I am referred to as a BYB, well my dogs are my pets.. I would never in one million years sell my babies to a broker to sell for me.. I need to meet and know where my puppies are going...anne
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Old 05-11-2009, 08:06 PM   #5
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I have heard horrible things about fancypups. I would always after all I learned on here after over 4 years buy from a reputable show breeder only, see their home, know their lines, see the parents.... Buying from a broker ALWAYS is taking a big risk.

Here is one thread about fancypups:

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/bre...om-beware.html
I read that, and looks like there were two pups w/probs...I'm so sorry about that, but as I said, over 20 years, there's bound to be something wrong, at some point...Apple came to me as a very healthy, clean, and adorable pup......btw, Apple came from Texas, not Arkansas...In fact, I spoke w/Jimmie, about those posts, and she told me they don't even get pups from Arkansas... But, anyway, this wasn't about fancypups, it was about bybs...But thanks for your input 'though...
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Old 05-11-2009, 08:24 PM   #6
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I don't necessarily feel that backyard breeders (hobby breeders) are all bad, I believe there are those out there that are only doing it to make a buck, and those who are doing it to create a good sound, healthy dog for the love of the animal, not the love of money. I do believe there are breeders that don't show their dogs who are reputable and worth talking to when looking for a pet. The problem is that the majority of these types of breeders are only in it for the money, they don't ensure their animals have great care and live in great conditions, and they don't care where they end up or even if they are spayed/neutered.

As far as brokers, well thats a whole different can of worms, any breeder worth their salt would be the one screening potential new homes for their litters and being picky at that. Might as well go to a pet store if your going to go to a broker
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Old 05-11-2009, 08:40 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Sweet Apple View Post
For the life of me, I don't understand why people say BYB (backyard breeder) like it's a cuss word...I think most people that are BYB's are usually morally respectable people...For instance, I bought an English Mastiff, 11 years ago for $1800 from a big ol' show/breeder outfit in Kansas...I lived on a small cattle ranch, in Texas (we sold the calves), and my husband (at the time) traveled alot, so we got the mastiff for my protection and also planned to breed and sell her pups too...Both her parents came w/clear hip tests, and all the hoop-la that goes w/it, and she was guaranteed, after the 18 month x-rays...Unfortunately, after her x-rays, it was determined she had severe hip dysplasia...I contacted the breeder and she informed me I could send copies of the x-rays and return the dog for another pup...YEAH RIGHT! Ya' think I'm going to ship my beloved pet back to Kansas, on a plane, and have another pup flown back to me...I don't think so! We would never think of breeding her, under the circumstances, and we durn sure wouldn't send her back, like damaged goods...I loved her w/all my heart, and took care of her, until she couldn't get up anymore at 9 1/2 years old...It was the very reputable show/breeder that was willing to take our sweet Pebbles (yeah, I know, ironic name for a mastiff) back to God knows where, and give us a another pup, not a BYB...I got my Apple from a broker (fancypups.com) that strives very hard to get healthy pups from BYB's who love and care for the parents of the pups, and the pups are right there w/the owners in a loving home...They've been in business for many many years, and have known these people for years...Over the years, they have had very few complaints....Occasionally something will be wrong w/a pup, but, as you can see from my story, it can also go wrong w/high powered breeders of show dogs, etc... They absolutely do not buy from puppy mills, and detest this practice...As you can see, it doesn't take a reputable breeder that shows dogs to guarantee a perfect puppy...In life, sometimes things go wrong w/humans and w/dogs...I don't know why I felt the need to tell you all how I feel, I just did....It just seems like the BYB's are getting a real bad wrap...
BTW, I don't ever plan to breed Apple, she's just my little pookie doodle to love and spoil for as long as we're together....
Maggie
Well I guess you found out the hard way that not all show breeders are reputable and neither are all bybers. Bybers get a bad rap because they are only "in it" for the money. They are on the same level as a puppy mill but dont have the numbers of dogs a mill has. No health testing is ever done on the dogs and they are bred to death. Hobby breeders, on the other hand, do the research, the health testing, only have one or two litters per year and are "in it" for the love of the breed only. Some hobby breeders show and some do not but they do know the standard of the breed and breed to it.
As with any puppy, from a show breeder or byber, health problems crop up unexpectedly. What makes a breeder reputable is how they handle the situation. But I will bet on the show breeder to do the right thing before I would bet on a byber.
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Old 05-11-2009, 08:43 PM   #8
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I don't think a breeder would consider a BYB if it has good lines and got their breeding dogs from reputable show breeders. This breeder should also know and study all the dogs in that dog's pedigree. They should be able to know the faults and the good qualities of most of the past dogs. That's why it's good to get a dog from a reputable breeder. A breeder should always be looking for show prospects in puppies when breeding. Even if the breeder doesn't like showing, they should be willing to get that pup shown with a professional handler. So if you want to breed, get dogs from reputable breeders, and buy the breeding rights. Note: if that breeder thinks that dog should be sold as a pet, there should be a good reason.
Most BYBs are linked to puppymills unfortunately. A BYB in my opinion, is just someone who wants to breed two pet quality dogs together because they either want money for the puppies or they think puppies are cute(which they are, but there should be a better reason for breeding). Most of these dogs are from the pet shop, because a reputable sells their pet qualities with limited registration, therefore those dogs are not supposed get bred. This insures that their lines are protected and it is keeping the breed pure from inherited problems. It's where they get their breeding stock that really matters to me. Most are from other BYBs or pet shops which originally they came from puppymills. BYBs and pet shops don't care if you breed the dogs, and then that person will breed, then the next person, and the cycle keeps continuing.
I don't know of a BYB that sells their dogs on limited registration but maybe some do.

Just my 2 cents.
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Old 05-11-2009, 08:56 PM   #9
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This is an excellent comparison of reputable breeders and backyard breeders from wonderpuppy.net:

Lawrence County Humane Society Abuse and Adoption Center
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Old 05-11-2009, 09:16 PM   #10
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One thing that does not make a lot of sense to me is how "breeding to standard" and "breeding for health" are always mentioned together. I don't see why breeding for aesthetic qualities has anything to do with health checks. Obviously there are show dogs that can win competitions, yet still have terrible health problems.

I am probably a little biased because of my little blondie Thor, but personally, I like seeing all the variety of yorkie looks here. I would love to see more "off standard" yorkies and fewer threads about sick pups.

The most important things for me would be a breeder that (1) performed requisite health checks on the parents, (2) did everything possible to ensure the pups go to good homes, and (3) sell most or all dogs on a spay/neuter contract. Show looks are neither here nor there.

Just my opinion, and I'm willing to be proved wrong.
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Old 05-11-2009, 09:29 PM   #11
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One thing that does not make a lot of sense to me is how "breeding to standard" and "breeding for health" are always mentioned together. I don't see why breeding for aesthetic qualities has anything to do with health checks. Obviously there are show dogs that can win competitions, yet still have terrible health problems.

I am probably a little biased because of my little blondie Thor, but personally, I like seeing all the variety of yorkie looks here. I would love to see more "off standard" yorkies and fewer threads about sick pups.

The most important things for me would be a breeder that (1) performed requisite health checks on the parents, (2) did everything possible to ensure the pups go to good homes, and (3) sell most or all dogs on a spay/neuter contract. Show looks are neither here nor there.

Just my opinion, and I'm willing to be proved wrong.

And that is what I try to do..all my puppies have been spayed or neutered.. I do not sell any of my pups for breeding to date.. and have been blessed with such great parents...letting go of one of my puppies makes me feel I am losing my first born.. so there is a must on my doing interviews and know what people are like.it is nothing for me to keep a baby till they are 5 months old...I have spend over 2 grand this winter at the vets and have some health tests yet to do on a baby I plan to keep..the people I am responsible to are the new parents to enure baby is going to the best loving home. anne
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Old 05-11-2009, 09:35 PM   #12
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This is an excellent comparison of reputable breeders and backyard breeders from wonderpuppy.net:

Lawrence County Humane Society Abuse and Adoption Center
Again your trying to prove that if one does not show.. then they are not good.. well I beg to differ with you on the fact I have over my 20 plus years gotten dogs from show breeders.. they are all I knew.. and what made me want to breed is to NOT do what they do and pretend they are good cause they are in the show world... more crap goes on that should not be done by these people that so can pick apart some one like me.. they have scammed people and lied and gotten away with it.. sold sick puppies or aggressive yorkies.. yet they can and they get away with it.. why because they are in the show world and many are some are so intimidating no one stands up to them.. so I wanted to prove I could breed for health and have integrity and do better for a new parent then many of those kinds can...I lived it.. saw it.. and saw how one would breed a stud to another dog and then say.. and if it comes out I will call the person a lier.. for this is not allowed in the show world.. so I have sat on both sides of this fence... the breeding world and the byb world as you it is called... anne
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Old 05-11-2009, 09:47 PM   #13
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Question ANOTHER byb thread?

thread #3 about BYB today....

#1 http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/gen...-breeders.html

#2 http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/gen...72191-byb.html
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Old 05-11-2009, 09:54 PM   #14
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One thing that does not make a lot of sense to me is how "breeding to standard" and "breeding for health" are always mentioned together. I don't see why breeding for aesthetic qualities has anything to do with health checks. Obviously there are show dogs that can win competitions, yet still have terrible health problems.

Somebody on the maltese board asked that same question, read this, it'll answer your question: Spoiled Maltese - the largest maltese dog forum and website

My favorite quote is: Health and structure are closely related. A well-bred dog with excellent structure (according to our breed standard) should not have luxating patellae or hip problems. They should not have bowed front legs which can cause problems. They should not have large bug eyes which aggravate tear staining. They should not have an overly domed head such as would be common in a hydrocephalic dog. You can't breed without looking at structure and end up with healthy dogs.

I don't really know about the yorkie health here, but on that forum, 90% of the maltese that have health problems are not from reputable breeders. That's a fact.
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Old 05-11-2009, 10:03 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by briana smith View Post
Somebody on the maltese board asked that same question, read this, it'll answer your question: Spoiled Maltese - the largest maltese dog forum and website

My favorite quote is: Health and structure are closely related. A well-bred dog with excellent structure (according to our breed standard) should not have luxating patellae or hip problems. They should not have bowed front legs which can cause problems. They should not have large bug eyes which aggravate tear staining. They should not have an overly domed head such as would be common in a hydrocephalic dog. You can't breed without looking at structure and end up with healthy dogs.

I don't really know about the yorkie health here, but on that forum, 90% of the maltese that have health problems are not from reputable breeders. That's a fact.
I think that's an interesting point, and I can see that applying to yorkies for things like LP. On the other hand, coloring is part of the standard, which I don't think has anything to do with health (other than extreme cases, like albinos). In other breeds, it's been clear that breed standards have become exaggerated and actually hurt the health of the dogs. It's also fact that extremely unhealthy dogs have won best in show at major events. I think bulldogs are a classic example of this.

I'm not saying that showing is wrong, just that it is not related to dog health at all. You can have a dog that's healthy, show quality, one but not the other, both, or neither.

It really bothers me that with all the advances we've made, the average dog's life span has not increased at all over the past few decades. I know there are a lot of theories about this - I've seen vaccination and nutrition cited - but I really wish that breed standards were about health, not looks.
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