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Old 11-21-2008, 08:07 PM   #1
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Animal Smiley 049 Chocolate Yorkie 2

Hi, I had addressed genetics and mutations on Choc Yorkie earlier. I had some that appreciated what my opinions were. Others talking between them selves thought I was a kook without a response to my thread but outside of the thread. I will give some info about myself and genetics. I bred thousands of fox and rabbits commercially for over 25 years. There is much that yorkie breeders do not know about genetics as to the color gene. I am still learning. I have been breeding yorkies now for over 15 years with the best AKC breeding show quality stock I could buy. When my female yorkie had 2 chocolate puppies, I wanted to know why. Some of the responses were they thought it had to be recessive genes in both the male and female. The Chocolate yorkie is called a mutation, Why? Where would the color come from? I had asked for some scientific info with no response but only opinions on simple recessive and simple dominance genetics. Color genes are more complicated than that.
During my experience breeding fox and rabbits colors mutated. The brown gene was called the cinnimon fox. I developed many color phases from this one mutated color such as platinum, fire and ice, amber, pearl etc. I had one litter of 5 fox puppies from 2 black fox parents that gave me a platinum, pearl,amber, black and cinnimon. These were all started from the mutation cinnimon fox. Something has to cause the gene to mutate, this is what I am trying to find and I think it is from something outside the norm of simple genetics. I will only respond to info that has scientific reasons that I can learn from. Wayne
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Old 11-21-2008, 08:26 PM   #2
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From what I have read the gene mutation is only a theory without any medical documentation to back it up.

The most likely reason given is the chocolate gene was introduced into the breed by other terrier breeds.
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Old 11-21-2008, 08:34 PM   #3
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hmmm...why so many fox and rabbit if you don't mind me asking???
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Old 11-21-2008, 08:59 PM   #4
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Mutations in genes is a very complicated thing as it can be cause by 2 different things but occurs in many ways in 1 of them. They can be caused by environmental sources-for example: viruses, chemicals, ultraviolet light, etc. And then there is just the happenstance of mutation during DNA replication-this is where it gets complicated, because there are several ways the sequence of DNA can be altered. Point mutations occur when wrong base pairing occurs, insertion (extra bases are added into the DNA, therefore it causes wrong base pairing, and then deletion (during replication bases are accidently removed). The chocolate yorkie is most definitely a phenotype mutation, whereas the mutation can be seen by the outward appearance. But the exact cause of the mutation could be anybody's guess. Also in my opinion the chocolate yorkie COULD be a recessive gene and not a mutation, but on the flip side of that opinion if it were a recessive gene then wouldn't it show up more often? Technically yes and no- yes because recessive genes show up when you have 2 carrier parents and with the amount of yorkie breeding going on these days you would think more chocolates would appear. But no because it could be rare enough that not many yorkies are carriers so you don't get many chocolates. I'll stop here because I could go on and on for pages.
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Old 11-21-2008, 09:10 PM   #5
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Quote:
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hmmm...why so many fox and rabbit if you don't mind me asking???
Ya know what - I am going to answer my own question...

You are a mass commercial fox and rabbit breeder. You breed and raise them and either skin them yourself for fur items or you sell them off for others to skin them and use their fur.

I may be in love with Chocolate Yorkies, but I have very strong feeling about Fur. I will NOT be posting anymore on your threads as I will NOT support what you choose to do.
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Old 11-21-2008, 09:14 PM   #6
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Good going TLC....I support your comments thoroughly !!!!!
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Old 11-21-2008, 10:03 PM   #7
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Thats fine every one has their opinions and can believe what they want. It is still a free country. Just to let you know I love my animals.
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Old 11-21-2008, 11:14 PM   #8
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Good going TLC....I support your comments thoroughly !!!!!
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Old 11-21-2008, 11:17 PM   #9
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Old 11-21-2008, 11:26 PM   #10
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I was curious about chocolate yorkies too. I think they are cute, but never really understood how if both parents have histories completely pure why they are not considered part of the standard.

On a side note I have to admit I love the tenacity of some YT members. My passions lie elsewhere, but I can respect their views.
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Old 11-22-2008, 12:01 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TLC View Post
Ya know what - I am going to answer my own question...

You are a mass commercial fox and rabbit breeder. You breed and raise them and either skin them yourself for fur items or you sell them off for others to skin them and use their fur.

I may be in love with Chocolate Yorkies, but I have very strong feeling about Fur. I will NOT be posting anymore on your threads as I will NOT support what you choose to do.
wow... make assumptions much?
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Old 11-22-2008, 03:58 AM   #12
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wow... make assumptions much?
I bred thousands of fox and rabbits commercially for over 25 years.

What does that say to you
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Old 11-22-2008, 05:58 AM   #13
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Quote:
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Mutations in genes is a very complicated thing as it can be cause by 2 different things but occurs in many ways in 1 of them. They can be caused by environmental sources-for example: viruses, chemicals, ultraviolet light, etc. And then there is just the happenstance of mutation during DNA replication-this is where it gets complicated, because there are several ways the sequence of DNA can be altered. Point mutations occur when wrong base pairing occurs, insertion (extra bases are added into the DNA, therefore it causes wrong base pairing, and then deletion (during replication bases are accidently removed). The chocolate yorkie is most definitely a phenotype mutation, whereas the mutation can be seen by the outward appearance. But the exact cause of the mutation could be anybody's guess. Also in my opinion the chocolate yorkie COULD be a recessive gene and not a mutation, but on the flip side of that opinion if it were a recessive gene then wouldn't it show up more often? Technically yes and no- yes because recessive genes show up when you have 2 carrier parents and with the amount of yorkie breeding going on these days you would think more chocolates would appear. But no because it could be rare enough that not many yorkies are carriers so you don't get many chocolates. I'll stop here because I could go on and on for pages.
Could you eloborate on this a little more please? Specifically the environmental sources and wrong base pairing.

Also if anyone knows about the eye color of the chocolates and the relation to the coat color and texture that would be a good post as well.

I'm not interested in breeding them but any sort of mutation and relational findings are helpful in removing characteristics from a given program.

Thanks
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Old 11-22-2008, 06:27 AM   #14
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I give you tremendous props for trying to find a link in the genetics.....

To those who judge....get a life, grow up etc.....
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Old 11-22-2008, 07:36 AM   #15
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I bred thousands of fox and rabbits commercially for over 25 years.

What does that say to you
I don't are what it LOOKS like. You may be right. The problem is that you don't KNOW and you are being horribly rude and judgmental and there is a chance that you're wrong.
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