Very disappointed with some YT members!!!

[bchgirl]

Someone has to speak for the animals because they can't speak for themselves.

I will always advise someone NOT to purchase from a pet store or commerical breeder. If that makes me a "bad guy"...so be it.

As long as people purchase from these venues...there is still a market.

[bchgirl]

Originally Posted by Breezeaway

I am just going to say this. I am big time against puppy mills, its disgusting and until the Government does something to stop it, it will go on and on and on. I have advocated against it for years and years now. Now with that said............... What about the puppies in those mills, what about them????? What did they do wrong that they don't deserve a loving home and loving family, do they deserve to live in filth and never see a warm bed or a kind hand or soft nuzzle. What about the puppy that because no one would get it, it lies in stench and cant walk because it grows up in a cage that is 4x4, What about the puppy that all it wanted was a warm meal or a pat on the head. Those puppy mill puppies are Yorkies too, maybe not high bred, high dollar babies but they will love you with more love than you can ever know if they are just given the chance . I myself cannot judge anyone for getting a puppy out of a puppy mill. Atleast THAT PUPPY has a chance at life the way it should be and not stuck in flea infested dung, stench,and filth for the rest of its little life. JMO

The problem with rescuing that one puppy...is another will take it's place and somewhere...there is a breeding pair...with a bitch being bred to death.

[AvyQuinn]

Hmm.. at first glance I didn't remember the thread being discussed.
Then I looked back at the thread and remembered it, and remembered why I didn't post on it. I didn't have anything supportive to say as I didn't (honestly) agree with her picking one pup, then 'un'picking it and going with another on a whim before even meeting the pup. That's why I skipped over the thread entirely without posting.

The thing about the internet is that people can say what they want to whoever they want. Some good, some bad, all fair game. The recipient of such comments can also ignore said comments and only acknowledge the ones she chooses to... or she can take comments (of people she doesn't know or really care about in the big picture) to heart and get offended.

I'm sorry that she felt as though she had to leave. I honestly don't think that anyone would have even really remembered her thread a month down the line when she started posting pics of her cutie. I know I wouldn't have.

[cj125]

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/ima...n/post_old.gif Today, 01:11 PM #116 Bhikku vbmenu_register("postmenu_2342120", true); Yorkie Yakker
Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Huntsville, AL Posts: 67 EDIT - The above was not intended to offend anyone, especially serious or full-time breeders, I just don't think the issue is a black and white one when it comes to where you get your puppy from...

In my opinion, if breeders priced high-quality dogs a little lower (not dirt cheap, but not prohibitively expensive) then people would not turn to the alternative of getting one out of the classifieds section of the newspaper. http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/ima...ser_online.gif http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/ima...ons/report.gif

I'm sorry but I would like to address this comment.

I have 2 Yorkies.

We had our Black Lab for 15 yrs and we had just put him down. I was totally devastated. I stopped at Petland on my way home from work - just to look. I really didn't know anything about puppymills and backyard breeders. I hadn't had a puppy in years! Needless to say, I saw my Mia and came home with her that day! She was in the hospital just 3 days after we got her! She didn't know how to bark, she had both parasites, diarrhea and she wouldn't eat. It was rough dealing with this. I was soo scared I was going to loose her - especially after having to put Lucky down.

Believe it or not, the following year we wanted a second baby. I took my time, did my research and picked a breeder that I really wanted a baby from. I bought my boy, Max, from a well known, accomplished, "show breeder". I flew to Dallas with my (human) son, stayed at a hotel for the weekend, rented a car, paid for our food and entertainment (for both us) and it still cost me less than buying Mia from Petland. He's never been sick, other than a little diarrhea from hubby loving him too much (with steak - which he does not get anymore).

So.... I'm not sure why everyone says that it costs more to get quality? That's simply not true.

The fact of the matter is that people buy from the classifides, pet stores and net purely out of convenience and immediate gratification.

But, IF they did charge more... it would be justified. They incur many costs that the backyard breeder does not.

[TLC]

I am going to be as honest as possible, AS I ALWAYS AM IN EVERY SINGLE ONE OF MY POSTS.

It is unfortunate that I as well as a few others who posted advice and information on 'that' thread are obviously being labeled here on this thread...it's kinda funny how things go around...how one thing can be so wrong and yet another so right...

So can someone answer my question: How in the world is supporting a Commericial USDA Breeder ok ~ PLEASE EXPLAIN THIS TO ME B/c obviously....I AM STUPID ~ I Guess I don't know any better, I guess I don't know right from wrong...I mean that's what is being implied here...

Not that I have to, but for those that don't know WHY I am so passionate. I spend pretty much everyday searching Petfinder and Craigs list, trying to find homes for ones not lucky enough to have loving homes in the first place or that their owners just don't want to be bothered with them anymore, because I have seen first hand what the neglect and abuse and result of mass breeding looks like (have you?) and because of my own situation with Roxy and TJ that I live with everyday and make every sacrifice possible to ensure that they can live a happy and healthy and hopefully long life.

In May of 2005 I set out to find two "teacup" ~ Yes, I said teacup Yorkies, so I headed for the web. I guess I had half a brain then because I knew better than to walk into a pet shop because pet shops are where puppymill pups come from. ALthough, honestly, I didn't know what a 'true' puppymill was really all about.

I came across Puppyfind.com as I know a lot of you frequent. I searched the whole east coast within driving distance of NY and I found TJ's picture......I WAS IN LOVE - had to have him...and low and behold they had a female for sale too! Great - I headed right for their webiste....

Do a google search for Brylaur Puppies and you'll see what I saw, but back then....I was blinded by LOVE and LACK of KNOWLEDGE and LACK of GUIDANCE....So viewing it today, well it pretty much should have a Red Flag over the screen with warning labels, b/c 'obviously' this was not the best place to purchase a pup, let alone 2 pups....

So I drove 7 hours one way to meet the 'breeder' in a McDonalds parking lot. He pulled up in a filthy truck and he was in old clothes as if he never took a shower, and was rolling in dirt. The breeder lived on 30 acres in Maine, in a double wide. They have Yorkie, Pugs, Chi's, Poodles, Fox Terriers and probably other breeds too. They have pigs, goats, and horses in all sizes...Oh and the best part - They were banned by the AKC for 10 years for records...

I paid cash $800 for Roxy $700 for TJ

Today we have $10,000 dogs between all the Vet care: LP surgeries, MVD diagnosis, severe allergies, special dental, board certified Vets. And they are only 4 y/o - so you know the bill will be forever rising...

SO VERY SORRY FOR 'TRYING' TO ALERT OTHERS OF THE CONCERNS I NOW AM ABLE TO SEE.

I wish you many, many, many, many wonderful years with your Healthy Babies...For those of us with sick ones, well I guess we are just plain out of luck and oh well....And for those that can sleep at night peacefully while there are millions of dogs trapped in a living hell, good for you, b/c I can't

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by bchgirl

Someone has to speak for the animals because they can't speak for themselves.

I will always advise someone NOT to purchase from a pet store or commerical breeder. If that makes me a "bad guy"...so be it.

As long as people purchase from these venues...there is still a market.

it really is sad and i had a client come in to do a loan with me as that is what i do for a living and was shocked that this pet store made a million dollars a year on puppies -- i did not end up doing the loan but was so sad when i saw this as i knew they were making a killing on these puppies but had no idea to what extent. It really broke my heart as i never knew before i got dexter and feel guilty that i supported that - but once you know better you do better and i rescued him in a way

[cj125]

Good post Nicole! I can feel your pain and know that your heart is in the "right" place. God Bless your wonderfull babies!

[llcornell]

Originally Posted by MauiGirl

I'm sorry she left too, though I'm not sure I agree she was "run off". She came here to ask opinions about which puppy "looked cuter", and ended up getting an overload of information/opinions about the breeder. She is firmly set on this breeder, defends her, yet has not met her nor seen her facility, the pups, parents or anything. She is basing her purchase on a photo, and considering shipping a too-young puppy, and it's no wonder several YT members felt compelled to educate her. We all just need to do that in a very delicate manner with new comers.

Many of us have come here thru searching for information about Yorkies. In the process we find out much more than we knew before, and for many that info came after getting our puppy. So often we hear people say, if I'd known better I would have done it differently.

Yes it's sad she left, but she left with a lot of information that may help her make a wise decision, and could be a good thing in the long run.

I agree. Its too bad she left but its always good to learn more and hear other peoples experience even if you dont agree with them.

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by cj125

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/ima...n/post_old.gif Today, 01:11 PM #116 Bhikku vbmenu_register("postmenu_2342120", true); Yorkie Yakker
Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Huntsville, AL Posts: 67 EDIT - The above was not intended to offend anyone, especially serious or full-time breeders, I just don't think the issue is a black and white one when it comes to where you get your puppy from...

In my opinion, if breeders priced high-quality dogs a little lower (not dirt cheap, but not prohibitively expensive) then people would not turn to the alternative of getting one out of the classifieds section of the newspaper. http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/ima...ser_online.gif http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/ima...ons/report.gif

I'm sorry but I would like to address this comment.

I have 2 Yorkies.

We had our Black Lab for 15 yrs and we had just put him down. I was totally devastated. I stopped at Petland on my way home from work - just to look. I really didn't know anything about puppymills and backyard breeders. I hadn't had a puppy in years! Needless to say, I saw my Mia and came home with her that day! She was in the hospital just 3 days after we got her! She didn't know how to bark, she had both parasites, diarrhea and she wouldn't eat. It was rough dealing with this. I was soo scared I was going to loose her - especially after having to put Lucky down.

Believe it or not, the following year we wanted a second baby. I took my time, did my research and picked a breeder that I really wanted a baby from. I bought my boy, Max, from a well known, accomplished, "show breeder". I flew to Dallas with my (human) son, stayed at a hotel for the weekend, rented a car, paid for our food and entertainment (for both us) and it still cost me less than buying Mia from Petland. He's never been sick, other than a little diarrhea from hubby loving him too much (with steak - which he does not get anymore).

So.... I'm not sure why everyone says that it costs more to get quality? That's simply not true.

The fact of the matter is that people buy from the classifides, pet stores and net purely out of convenience and immediate gratification.

But, IF they did charge more... it would be justified. They incur many costs that the backyard breeder does not.

lol i got dee dee out of the penny saver and she did not save me at all lol - i actually thought i was doing better by getting her from an akc breeder and dexter was from the local pet store.

I really think people get from pet stores like I did because they just do not know any better as i sure did not until I joined the groups because dexter got pancreatitis and i think i am a pretty intelligent person but I had no clue and i think most people do not and why it was so wonderful when oprah did the show on puppy mills as i think most consumers really do not know sadly

I was willing to pay top dollar as i almost paid $3000 from a pet store for a girl yorkie and paid $1500 for dexter and $1300 for dee dee. I did not want to get dee dee from pet store as i thought i was doing better getting her from akc breeder but still had no clue about puppy mills when i got dee dee 5 mos after dexter. I wanted dexter to have a little buddy. Then i saw demi on petfinder a few months after that thinking i would rescue her as i learned about petfinder but still had no clue about puppymills. I wish more people would join groups such as this before getting a puppy and get info from experienced dog owners as i said it before and will say it again I wish i had.

It is so true what someone else said after my post it is not only the financial strain it is the emotional strain in watching a puppy with health issues suffer. Luckily I have mine all managed but it has not been easy and i think many people get frustrated with the sick ones and cannot financially afford them so that is why so many end up in shelters and rescue as these people did not know what they were getting into upfront

[Wabbit]

There are alot of good points being brought out!!!

I do NOT support or endorse PUPPY MILLS....frankly I don't know that anyone does!!! However like one post said..."what about those innocent pups??"

I have a friend that couldn't afford 1500-2500 for a yorkie... So she went and got one cheaper... She immediately took her to the Vet...
Well the puppy was not taken good care of at all...she was infested with fleas....had some type of parasite and was in poor condition. Her Vet could obviously tell she had not purchased from a reputable breeder and was getting onto her about it....Finally she said "Look I realize now that was a bad place to get a puppy...however I could not walk away in good conscience and leave that baby there...I look at it as a rescue!" With that said her Vet didn't say anymore...He agreed with her.

While noone should ever support puppy mills.....it has to be said..what about those poor babies? I encouraged her to turn that so called breeder in...That is the only way we will stop puppy mills...they need to be turned in and shut down!! Hopefully some day soon I will hear that Breeder has been put out of business!

[TLC]

Originally Posted by cj125

Good post Nicole! I can feel your pain and know that your heart is in the "right" place. God Bless your wonderfull babies!

Thank you...and ya know what, I am sorry that she left and decided not be a member anymore. And I hope everyone goes back and truly, truly reads the posts carefully, word for word...The breeder was being treated as if they were royalty - explain this to me How does a USDA breeder go from being a mass producer to a god I guess I am plain old dumb...maybe I haven't learned anything in the past 3/5 years, maybe being obsessed with Yorkies and Yorkietalk and Animals Rights just hasn't done a darn thing for me....Maybe I should tell that to my brother who is going on 3 years in the Marines...Hey Adrain, it doesn't matter...Will that fly I didn't think so....

[TLC]

There are 2 sides to this and each one of us can only pick one side...

You either pick the pup
or
You pick the parents

Sorry, but if this continues, NEITHER side is going to win

[dwerten]

Nicole i understand where you are coming from as it is so hard when you are dealing with the health issues and I like you want to warn others so they do not have to experience what we have experienced. Growing up we had shih tzus and never had any health issues with them so this was all new to me. I think because yorkies are so inbred and over bred due to being one of the most popular breeds is why so many health issues occur. I think this is why the pet insurance companies do not cover as much and have additional riders on purebred dogs vs a dog that is not. They obviously know something and why they do not cover them as much as a non-purebred.

I really wish this person would have stayed and learned more for herself and her puppy.

[SamiNFurbabies]

There are 2 sides to this and each one of us can only pick one side...

You either pick the pup
or
You pick the parents

Sorry, but if this continues, NEITHER side is going to win
__________________

I understand about the poor little puppies---however, if I thought that was the best way to "rescue"---i'd be going out getting poor little puppies because they are cute...however, the only way to put these petstores out of business is to stop supporting them. If they don't have any financial incentive---they will stop business.
My Izze was supposedly from one of those bad breeders or mills... until she was four years old. That is unacceptable to me! And I don't understand how people go and continue to buy from there, knowingly. To me, it's just laziness. You don't have to put yourself in the position to get "tempted". Stay away from petstores and research the breeder before you visit. Simple as that.

[cj125]

Originally Posted by dwerten

lol i got dee dee out of the penny saver and she did not save me at all lol - i actually thought i was doing better by getting her from an akc breeder and dexter was from the local pet store.

I really think people get from pet stores like I did because they just do not know any better as i sure did not until I joined the groups because dexter got pancreatitis and i think i am a pretty intelligent person but I had no clue and i think most people do not and why it was so wonderful when oprah did the show on puppy mills as i think most consumers really do not know sadly

I was willing to pay top dollar as i almost paid $3000 from a pet store for a girl yorkie and paid $1500 for dexter and $1300 for dee dee. I did not want to get dee dee from pet store as i thought i was doing better getting her from akc breeder but still had no clue about puppy mills when i got dee dee 5 mos after dexter. I wanted dexter to have a little buddy. Then i saw demi on petfinder a few months after that thinking i would rescue her as i learned about petfinder but still had no clue about puppymills. I wish more people would join groups such as this before getting a puppy and get info from experienced dog owners as i said it before and will say it again I wish i had.

It is so true what someone else said after my post it is not only the financial strain it is the emotional strain in watching a puppy with health issues suffer. Luckily I have mine all managed but it has not been easy and i think many people get frustrated with the sick ones and cannot financially afford them so that is why so many end up in shelters and rescue as these people did not know what they were getting into upfront

Exactly. You said it better than I did.

I didn't know about any of this until after we got Mia from Petland, she got sick, and hubby found YorkieTalk. And, like alot of us will admit, I wish I would have had the info beforehand. Not that I wish I hadn't gotten Mia, just that the circumstances would have been different.