Need help with big decision!!

[babylola nyc]

Originally Posted by Judy in Waco

I just realized that no one has suggested the most obvious thing you could do. Ask a couple of people here on YT who live in the area to check out the breeder and facility in person and then call and tell you what they thought.

Maybe he/she could take a video camera and film the pups at play.

And since we know that this is USDA licensed facilty and you are an attorney, look at the inspection reports.

Thanks Judy!

I have a friend who works in Washington who knew a few people at the USDA and I spoke with them and they pulled her records and everything they said she had told me prior, so I know she was not lying. In addition, they said that she will not be renewing her licesne since she does not sell to brokers or pet stores and there is no need for one. They gave me the photos and the photos she had shown me were no different. She has no idea that I have done all this, so the fact that everything adds up is nice and helps me believe that she is not lying.

I am actually off to California on a business trip, so hopefully if I get my mind off this for a bit I can come back with a clear mind to make a decision.


Hope everyone has a lovely Thanksgiving.

[ARCHIE]

I just have to say this. Please don't take offense because I don't mean it
to be offensive. We all know what Puppy Mills are and how they should
be shut down, right? Ok ,she cancelled her licence now but what about before
that? How can we get the laws to change regarding closing these facilities
down when attorney's are going to them to buy puppies? Aren't you
concerned about the well being of the parent's who are forced to produce
one litter after the other? Why would you go to some place like this when
you can go to a local breeder? There are several here on YT with beautiful
puppies and come with references as well. You can see the siblings, parents
and actually talk to other's who have purchased puppies from YT member's.
Whatever you decide I wish you good luck. I just needed to ask that
question.

[babylola nyc]

Originally Posted by ARCHIE

I just have to say this. Please don't take offense because I don't mean it
to be offensive. We all know what Puppy Mills are and how they should
be shut down, right? Ok ,she cancelled her licence now but what about before
that? How can we get the laws to change regarding closing these facilities
down when attorney's are going to them to buy puppies? Aren't you
concerned about the well being of the parent's who are forced to produce
one litter after the other? Why would you go to some place like this when
you can go to a local breeder? There are several here on YT with beautiful
puppies and come with references as well. You can see the siblings, parents
and actually talk to other's who have purchased puppies from YT member's.
Whatever you decide I wish you good luck. I just needed to ask that
question.

My mistake...I meant she should not renew her license according to the USDA. I dont feel like I need to defend her or my decision anymore. This has gotten out of hand.

She does not allow her puppies to breed every heat cycle --this is not from her its from their records. To me she is like any other breeder. I have yet to meet one that doesnt do it for the money and the love of animals. But, I am sure there are breeders out there that only do it for the love of the puppies and to bring joy to people (while charging thousand upon thousands of dollars). I did a little math and the breeders that were supposed to be very good here in NY that I saw, after asking them how many puppies they sell a year and at the astronomical amount that they do, they make just as much as my breeder does!!!!

She refused to sell to a co-worker because she didnt think she could handle taking the pet. Other people have stated that the breeder they went to didnt care who the pet went with. Doesnt this show you something about her??? She actually cares where the pup goes.

If she takes care of the pups, allows them in her home, has yet to lie to me, treats the parents well and retires them early, doesnt allow them to mate every heat cycle, questions each person she sells, names the puppies, socializes them----then why, because she does it for a living and produces more than a breeder may, have such a stigma against her.

I thank all the private messages I have gotten, but this truly is too much. I just asked the opinion about the dogs and now we are into breeders and puppymills and ethics.

This is not the advice I asked for at all.


I am very uncomfortable with the fact and fear that my breeder may be harrassed by some of you or stalked. This is very unnerving to me and I believe lines have been crossed that legally shouldnt be.


This is draining. This is my last post on this thread. It seem so toxic now. I just dont have the energy anymore. I was so happy about everything and now it is truly tainted. I will make my decision, but doubt I will be part of this community. I have to catch a flight. Hope you all have a wonderful holiday.

[Ladymom]

Originally Posted by babylola nyc

My mistake...I meant she should not renew her license according to the USDA. I dont feel like I need to defend her or my decision anymore. This has gotten out of hand.

She does not allow her puppies to breed every heat cycle --this is not from her its from their records. To me she is like any other breeder. I have yet to meet one that doesnt do it for the money and the love of animals. But, I am sure there are breeders out there that only do it for the love of the puppies and to bring joy to people (while charging thousand upon thousands of dollars). I did a little math and the breeders that were supposed to be very good here in NY that I saw, after asking them how many puppies they sell a year and at the astronomical amount that they do, they make just as much as my breeder does!!!!

She refused to sell to a co-worker because she didnt think she could handle taking the pet. Other people have stated that the breeder they went to didnt care who the pet went with. Doesnt this show you something about her??? She actually cares where the pup goes.

If she takes care of the pups, allows them in her home, has yet to lie to me, treats the parents well and retires them early, doesnt allow them to mate every heat cycle, questions each person she sells, names the puppies, socializes them----then why, because she does it for a living and produces more than a breeder may, have such a stigma against her.

I thank all the private messages I have gotten, but this truly is too much. I just asked the opinion about the dogs and now we are into breeders and puppymills and ethics.

This is not the advice I asked for at all.


I am very uncomfortable with the fact and fear that my breeder may be harrassed by some of you or stalked. This is very unnerving to me and I believe lines have been crossed that legally shouldnt be.


This is draining. This is my last post on this thread. It seem so toxic now. I just dont have the energy anymore. I was so happy about everything and now it is truly tainted. I will make my decision, but doubt I will be part of this community. I have to catch a flight. Hope you all have a wonderful holiday.

Why don't you pm the Administrator and have this thread closed?

Good luck with your decision. You have gotten a lot of good information.

[annamalyssa]

"In addition, they said that she will not be renewing her licesne since she does not sell to brokers or pet stores and there is no need for one."

"My mistake...I meant she should not renew her license according to the USDA. "

There is a CLEAR difference in those two statements, and I am not sure you could accidentally write the 1st statement, if that is NOT what you intended to write, it sounds as if you are trying to convince people anyway you can that you have "investigated" and this breeder is gold... but to be honest I don't believe you have. This all sounds a bit funny to me.

THIS THREAD WAS ABOUT THE PUPPY so if you care about the puppy.. just make your decision without letting these opinions affect you. If your conscience is sound and you are confident with your breeder there is absolutely NOTHING you should feel the need to defend.

To be honest "LEGALLY" there is NOTHING wrong with this thread, any attorney would know that. It's a message board there are very little laws available to stop what is said on them.

Hope you enjoy your new furbaby when you get her...

[Bhikku]

I agree with the OP. This thread got way out of hand...

[ARCHIE]

I did a little math and the breeders that were supposed to be very good here in NY that I saw, after asking them how many puppies they sell a year and at the astronomical amount that they do, they make just as much as my breeder does!!!!



This may be so but in order for "Your Breeder" to make as much as
they NY Breeder who say charge 1,500.00 per puppy your breeder
would have to sell "Three" at $500.00 ea for the "One" the NY
breeder sells in order to make the same amount of money, right?
Therefore your breeder has to breed more puppies to make as
much. I didn't say it you did.

[annamalyssa]

Originally Posted by ARCHIE

I did a little math and the breeders that were supposed to be very good here in NY that I saw, after asking them how many puppies they sell a year and at the astronomical amount that they do, they make just as much as my breeder does!!!!



This may be so but in order for "Your Breeder" to make as much as
they NY Breeder who say charge 1,500.00 per puppy your breeder
would have to sell "Three" at $500.00 ea for the "One" the NY
breeder sells in order to make the same amount of money, right?
Therefore your breeder has to breed more puppies to make as
much. I didn't say it you did.

I agree Archie, I used to breed a bully breed and we sold our pups for around $2500-$3000 a pup but only had about 2 litters per year and sold them to SELECTIVE homes, as a breeder I can tell you that if you are selling your pups at $500 a pup then you are NOT being very selective as to where they are going YOU CANT BE as you would be breeding to many pups to keep track of like that, and would have to breed your dogs 2-3 times as much as a breeder who sells as cheap as $1500 just to make what they are making a year.. which means you would be MASS producing just to keep up. As a breeder I can tell you this, if you are producing in large amounts it's only for MONEY because whelping a litter is a HUGE RESPONSIBILITY and anyone who wants to do it every month or even every other month has to be INSANE or GETTING SOME BIG BREAD as it takes a huge toll on you and is honestly like another job.

[Bhikku]

I agree Archie, I used to breed a bully breed and we sold our pups for around $2500-$3000 a pup but only had about 2 litters per year and sold them to SELECTIVE homes, as a breeder I can tell you that if you are selling your pups at $500 a pup then you are NOT being very selective as to where they are going YOU CANT BE as you would be breeding to many pups to keep track of like that, and would have to breed your dogs 2-3 times as much as a breeder who sells as cheap as $1500 just to make what they are making a year..

I would personally never spend $2500-$3000 dollars on a dog, AKC or otherwise. I got my purebred yorkie pup for $350 bucks from a backyard breeder. He was originally $400, but the breeder lowered the price upon request since it's pretty obvious he's going to be oversized and there is a smaller market for teapot yorkies than for "teacup" yorkies.

I got to meet the breeder and her family, I interacted with both parents of my dog to check their temperament (the only two dogs the woman owned) and I was given a kit of stuff to go with my puppy (food, etc..). She answered every question I had and allowed me to rub all of my puppy's new toys on his mother and father to reduce separation anxiety. The dog came with a health guarantee and a record of his immunization. The puppies were raised in the home and started on pee pad training. I was allowed to temperament test each one of them.

I don't know anyone who could afford some of the high dollar dogs I see offered by show-quality breeders (not that I'm saying reputable breeders aren't reputable, it's just that I don't think people who breed out of their house as a hobby are necessarily disreputable...)

I think some of the exaggerated ("purified") qualities produced in dog breeds by inbreeding and linebreeding cause more genetic problems than anything else. Some dogs with strong pedigree lines look just as inbred as they are. Then show breeders have the nerve to blame genetic problems on people who throw together two unrelated dogs in a backyard somewhere.

Even dogs which are not perfect as far as conformation goes (oversized, longer muzzle than standard) may contain much healthier genes than a dog which is conformationally perfect, but may carry recessive genes for a variety of devastating diseases...Just because you have your inbred breeding stock x-rayed for hip dysplasia doesn't mean those dogs are guaranteed not to throw dysplastic puppies.

Not everyone who breeds dogs without showing them or belonging to a nationally recognized breed registry is a puppy miller, I guess is what I'm trying to say. People shouldn't be made to feel like they're contributing to animal abuse if they don't pick a top-dollar AKC breeder.

[chachi]

How come you said you were leaving to go on a trip but your on here now?

[Bhikku]

EDIT - The above was not intended to offend anyone, especially serious or full-time breeders, I just don't think the issue is a black and white one when it comes to where you get your puppy from...

In my opinion, if breeders priced high-quality dogs a little lower (not dirt cheap, but not prohibitively expensive) then people would not turn to the alternative of getting one out of the classifieds section of the newspaper.