designer pups...???

[durtymydawg]

ooooooppps....my computer froze so I didn't think it posted...but how did I get 3 of them. To funny. Sorry I wasn' trying to make a statement that many times...lol.

[yorkiekist]

Yah, right, blame it on the computer!! LOL

[DvlshAngel985]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

We had been discussing this on the previous page, if you see what is written there, I had agreed with the statement that says.

"A dog hybrid is the offspring of parents of two different purebred dog breeds, more commonly called a crossbreed or crossbred in animal breeding. Crossbreeding (parents of two different purebred breeds) results in offspring that may be stronger and healthier than either parent, an effect called hybrid vigor, but only if both parents are genetically sound."

Some experts do believe there is a phenomenon called hybrid vigor; unfortunately it is not always there, so it is not predictable.



I was originally responding to post 353, so you might want to read that too for further clarification on this issue.

From what I know about genetics, and trust me I'm no expert but I have learned how to look at certain things like probability, and the probability of this "hybrid vigor" low as they may be might actually have a higher probability of occuring when compared to the negative outcome, that being "the worst of both breeds". Of course if this is done under the watchful eye of a careful breeder.
Let me explain my train of thought.
If a responsible breeder (and my definition of a responsible breeder is one that looks for the best doggies to mate together that are both healthy and have good temperament based on what they want the outcomet to be, and who are also responsible for the puppies that may result in a given crossbreeding) is to pick healthy parents that they themselves have no expression of "bad genes" they have a smaller chance of passing on the bad genes to their offspring, or in other words the chances of getting the worst of both worlds is there but kept to a minimum. This is seen as a positive because in purebreds there is a degree of inbreeding that has been done to keep certain desired characteristics strong. This inbreeding increases the chances of negative recessive traits to be passed on, whether or not they are expressed in the next generation of pups. With more the of recessive genes out there, there is a greater chance of them being espressed (two recessive genes finding each other).
With crossbreeding, there is a bigger variation of genes, and with variation there is a bigger chance of these recessive genes not finding another recessive gene. The pups can appear healthier due to this variation which is where the "hybrid vigor" is seen.
This is just an educated guess that would explain the,... well let's just call it the "Hybrid Vigor Theory" but I do want to emphasize(as I think Nancy 1999 has very well said) that with genetics it's all a game of chance! You can increase your odds but nothing is certain. If this is confusing ask and I'll try to explain it better!

[katzst]

I admit to being totally ignorant when it came to breeds and mixes. I started out wanting to adopt or rescue from the SPCA but they had nothing but huge dogs so we ended up at a pet store (just to look) where we fell in love with something called a yorkiepoo. I will never regret it because not only do we love Porkie but we know if we hadn't gotten him when we did he would be dead now! The pet store would never have put out the $1,300.00 it cost us to save his life after he was starved by them (anorexia) (2 lbs and only fed twice a day) as well as hypoglycemia and dehydration. Considering everything I hate the mere idea of puppy mills/breeders or anyone else doing this just to make a buck especially when everyone suffers if there are health problems early on or even later (possible liver shunt) but on the other hand I just can't regret having our Porkie for even one minute. It's a real dilemma

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by DvlshAngel985

From what I know about genetics, and trust me I'm no expert but I have learned how to look at certain things like probability, and the probability of this "hybrid vigor" low as they may be might actually have a higher probability of occuring when compared to the negative outcome, that being "the worst of both breeds". Of course if this is done under the watchful eye of a careful breeder.
Let me explain my train of thought.
If a responsible breeder (and my definition of a responsible breeder is one that looks for the best doggies to mate together that are both healthy and have good temperament based on what they want the outcomet to be, and who are also responsible for the puppies that may result in a given crossbreeding) is to pick healthy parents that they themselves have no expression of "bad genes" they have a smaller chance of passing on the bad genes to their offspring, or in other words the chances of getting the worst of both worlds is there but kept to a minimum. This is seen as a positive because in purebreds there is a degree of inbreeding that has been done to keep certain desired characteristics strong. This inbreeding increases the chances of negative recessive traits to be passed on, whether or not they are expressed in the next generation of pups. With more the of recessive genes out there, there is a greater chance of them being espressed (two recessive genes finding each other).
With crossbreeding, there is a bigger variation of genes, and with variation there is a bigger chance of these recessive genes not finding another recessive gene. The pups can appear healthier due to this variation which is where the "hybrid vigor" is seen.
This is just an educated guess that would explain the,... well let's just call it the "Hybrid Vigor Theory" but I do want to emphasize(as I think Nancy 1999 has very well said) that with genetics it's all a game of chance! You can increase your odds but nothing is certain. If this is confusing ask and I'll try to explain it better!

Very thoughtful post, and I agree with it, and I can actually see where this could be useful, if people were breeding dogs for some specific task.

[yorkieisme]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

Excellent post, I hope everyone reads it, and tries to understand what it's saying, I can't tell you how many times I've read people say they don't think they are a back-yard-breeder because they allow their dogs in the house.

Hey Nancy,
Just wondering what that is suppose to mean? I read the meaning of BYB and did not come away with that line of thinking. People can have their animals in the house and still put everything into it. There are small show/breeder homes that take great pride in what they do. Then there are breeders that refuse to show and just enjoy the breeding part of it, with maybe 2 litters a year if that.

[yorkieisme]

Originally Posted by durtymydawg

ooooooppps....my computer froze so I didn't think it posted...but how did I get 3 of them. To funny. Sorry I wasn' trying to make a statement that many times...lol.

You made your point,

[yorkieisme]

Originally Posted by katzst

I admit to being totally ignorant when it came to breeds and mixes. I started out wanting to adopt or rescue from the SPCA but they had nothing but huge dogs so we ended up at a pet store (just to look) where we fell in love with something called a yorkiepoo. I will never regret it because not only do we love Porkie but we know if we hadn't gotten him when we did he would be dead now! The pet store would never have put out the $1,300.00 it cost us to save his life after he was starved by them (anorexia) (2 lbs and only fed twice a day) as well as hypoglycemia and dehydration. Considering everything I hate the mere idea of puppy mills/breeders or anyone else doing this just to make a buck especially when everyone suffers if there are health problems early on or even later (possible liver shunt) but on the other hand I just can't regret having our Porkie for even one minute. It's a real dilemma

Aw Porkie is so cute...I hate going to a pet store for bird food. They have kittens in there all the time and I want to break them out of "jail" so bad.

[ButterflyKisses]

DvishAngel985,
I thought you explained it very well. No one should be breeding any dogs without wanted to breed the best in both parents for the healthiest, sturdiest, best temperament possible for the puppies.

[cesar49]

Originally Posted by katzst

I admit to being totally ignorant when it came to breeds and mixes. I started out wanting to adopt or rescue from the SPCA but they had nothing but huge dogs so we ended up at a pet store (just to look) where we fell in love with something called a yorkiepoo. I will never regret it because not only do we love Porkie but we know if we hadn't gotten him when we did he would be dead now! The pet store would never have put out the $1,300.00 it cost us to save his life after he was starved by them (anorexia) (2 lbs and only fed twice a day) as well as hypoglycemia and dehydration. Considering everything I hate the mere idea of puppy mills/breeders or anyone else doing this just to make a buck especially when everyone suffers if there are health problems early on or even later (possible liver shunt) but on the other hand I just can't regret having our Porkie for even one minute. It's a real dilemma

dont feel bad about saving your porky..those puppy mills and pet stores selling dogs will be out of business soon.. if there is justice in america.. then we can save the puppies and the parents still enslaved.,.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by yorkieisme

Hey Nancy,
Just wondering what that is suppose to mean? I read the meaning of BYB and did not come away with that line of thinking. People can have their animals in the house and still put everything into it. There are small show/breeder homes that take great pride in what they do. Then there are breeders that refuse to show and just enjoy the breeding part of it, with maybe 2 litters a year if that.

I was commenting to the previous posting, I especially thought this quote was great:

Backyard breeding The term backyard breeder is a general term used in the USA to describe people who breed animals without selection for important genetic traits. Usually describes those who allow animals, particularly dogs or horses, to procreate regardless of physical or genetic health as opposed to breeders who intentionally screen and select their brood for important characteristics.

I posted:

Excellent post, I hope everyone reads it, and tries to understand what it's saying, I can't tell you how many times I've read people say they don't think they are a back-yard-breeder because they allow their dogs in the house.

I'm not sure what you don't understand about my reply. In your reply, it would sounds like we agree on things. I was trying to say that some people think as long as the dogs are kept inside and not outside in the backyard they aren't backyard breeders. In other words, they are only taking the literal meaning of backyard and not considering the other qualities that contribute to the meaning. Does that clear things up?

[DvlshAngel985]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

Excellent post, I hope everyone reads it, and tries to understand what it's saying, I can't tell you how many times I've read people say they don't think they are a back-yard-breeder because they allow their dogs in the house.

I've actually heard people say that! From the deffinition of breeder we were given, which I completely agree with, a breeder is a person who carefully breeds his/her animals. Whereas BYB breed their animals indiscriminantly. They think if they keep their animals inside then they're free of guilt and don't earn the title of BYB. They shouldn't just take in the literal sense of the phrase!

[cesar49]

Originally Posted by DvlshAngel985

I've actually heard people say that! From the deffinition of breeder we were given, which I completely agree with, a breeder is a person who carefully breeds his/her animals. Whereas BYB breed their animals indiscriminantly. They think if they keep their animals inside then they're free of guilt and don't earn the title of BYB. They shouldn't just take in the literal sense of the phrase!

i agree
i am guilty of saying it myself.. sorry
i have also heard it said that all puppymill owners and bybs are usually
very lazy and quite stupid..
trying to make a buck on the backs of the poor animals they cage

[yorkieisme]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

I was commenting to the previous posting, I especially thought this quote was great:


I posted:

I'm not sure what you don't understand about my reply. In your reply, it would sounds like we agree on things. I was trying to say that some people think as long as the dogs are kept inside and not outside in the backyard they aren't backyard breeders. In other words, they are only taking the literal meaning of backyard and not considering the other qualities that contribute to the meaning. Does that clear things up?

Got it now, I guess my brain was not up with me this morning.... sorry hope I didn't offend you.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by yorkieisme

Got it now, I guess my brain was not up with me this morning.... sorry hope I didn't offend you.

Not at all, I'm just glad somebody understands part of this conversation. I think more of us are on the same page with this, than we realize.