What Is A Biewer and a Parti Yorkie?

[scrapindee]

You misunderstood what I was trying to say, Jan.

When someone calls me and all they are interested in are splitters, or F1s, I send them in another direction because I know nothing about them. Usually I send them to Puppyfind--I have found if folks want something or someway in particular, there is no point in trying to change their minds. There is times when all I can do say is no, I can't help you with what you want. I don't spend time argueing with callers, it makes them angry and is a waste of my time.

I agree with Kathy--if they look like a Biewer and meets standards, they are Biewers. If they look like Yorkies, they are yorkies. My understanding is that they will be registered as Yorkies.

[bchgirl]

Originally Posted by kathy785

Both splitters were imported from Germany. I know that one of them has a standard Yorkie father. I also know this girl's grandmother on mother's side was a splitter, as she lived with me for a while.

I guess my question wasn't clear. I meant the could the test provide a breed within a certain amount of generations.

It's all over my head...I'm like you...why wouldn't a splitter...whose ancestory you know has biewer in it...not show up as something other than just yorkie. ....when a biewer's test shows others.

Seems to me, also...the testing for a biewer would all show the same breeds within it too. I mean animals whose ancestory is supposedly known.

PS toe may toe

[Pruett]

A dog can go back 8 generations and pick up genes that contribute to it's genetic make-up.

All these people that think they have 8 generations of Biewer to Beiwer breedings need to put their egos in a box for a while and be realistic about the breed if they want to make a difference. This is a new breed that still needs a lot of work.

There has never been a breed signature developed for the Biewer Yorkshire Terrier a la Pom Pon, as with the Yorkshire Terrier, or any other established breed. Therefore, no one can say they have a purebred Biewer Yorkshire Terrier.
When a DNA analysis is done on a purebred dog they will form a cluster on a graph. Yorkies group together, Shih Tzu's in another cluster and so on.
When almost 100 Biewer Terriers were tested, they formed a cluster independent of any other breed. The purebred Yorkshire Terriers that we put in the mix ended up in the Yorkie cluster. When 100 mutts were tested, they DID NOT form a cluster and were all over the board. Do you see what this means?

Hopefully, due to the efforts of some very dedicated Biewer Terrier breeders, a breed signature is being developed for the purebred Biewer Terrier.

Fighting over the name of the dog is stupid. Some of you people are starting off the foundation of the Biewer in America with known L.S. lines and have produced some L.S. puppies already. You are sweeping it under the table and doing nothing about it.
Breeding Biewer to Biewer with health issues is nothing to be proud of.
Showing dogs and receiving championship titles on dogs that are producing more bad dogs than good is ridiculous and hurting our breed. I don't see any betterment of the breed there, just self glory.

The BTCA, Inc. has a large group of experienced, dedicated breeders that are always willing to help anyone better understand the breed and assist with them with their breeding programs.

[EnchantedToi]

I myself have always treated the Biewer as a breed of its own.
After breeding true for over 20 years, this breed was well on its way to being established.
I don't think the divide is mearly over the name of the breed , that is really simplifying the situation. You have seperate clubs all working hard towards protecting and preserving this splendid breed.
The majority of the serious canine fanciers in any breed, may choose to show the dogs in conformation. One, to get the breed out there and gain some recognition.Two, to have the dogs evaluated against a standard to deem them worthy of the breed.Speaking for myself, the devide is over one Club changing the standard to include many colorations on the head. Instead of the three colors, it has been exspanded to include any and all head coloration for the breed.
And yes, color is not everything when you are working hard to produce quality sound healthy puppies. But I do believe strongly in the head coloration of the Biewer Breed.
For me personally the divide is over the standard. Two breed clubs have been using the standard that has been used since 2003 on North American soil. 3 Show venues, have accepted this standard and dogs have been showing under that same standard .06/Ontario Rare Breed, 03/North American Kennel Club, and 03/ IABCA.
There may be many unscrupulous breeders jumping on the band wagon, and this saddens me greatly. But as with many breeds there are always those who interest is not in protecting and preserving.

Other Ethical breeders are involved heavily in the breed , health test, study pedigree, and work dilligently to improve the breed.and Yes, show the Biewers in conformation.
I would suggest to anyone interested in the breed to get involved , attend some shows. Choose the "type" of Biewer that you admire. Get out and meet many of the Biewer Fanciers regardless of Club affiliation. You will find the right mix for you.
On a side note. I am one of many............ who imported a pup from Germany with Livershunt.My heart was broken, as she was to be part of my breeding program. However, with a Fabulous specialist and modern techniques in vet medicine she has been surgically corrected and spayed. She will stay here with us as a pet only.To read more about Cattia feel free to visit my website, I will forwarn you, there are very graphic photo's of her surgery.
So for others to suggest that we are not working hard to eliminate LS from the breed is unfortunate, I myself have surrounded myself with likeminded breeders whos goal is to protect and preserve.
You study pedigrees, attend seminars and educate yourself on how to produce healthy sound puppies.

Yes , I show my Biewers!
And I am very pleased with my accomplishments to date.

Jan Prosser
Welcome to Enchanted Toi Biewers

[scrapindee]

I think that information should be shared. There are many YTr's that are interested in the information we have learned. There are many, many threads on this forum wanting to know the differences between the Biewer and Parti. We continue to learn by sharing information--not by hiding in private areas.

The clusters on the Mars test and Dayzee as a control (pure Yorkie) shows that there are specific genetic differences for the Biewers. Of course, further studies are needed but here is the concrete beginnings to establish they are different breeds of dogs. The BTCA and its members are working hard to establish this breed.

Mrs. Biewer has voiced her approval of the BTCA and the Standard.

It is wonderful that there are 4 Venues, including Canada, that now allow the Biewers to be shown. But it takes more than dog shows to enter FSS/AKC.

This is a beautiful breed and everyone who owns one is passionate about them. This is the one area we all agree on.

[cesar49]

Originally Posted by EnchantedToi

I myself have always treated the Biewer as a breed of its own.
After breeding true for over 20 years, this breed was well on its way to being established.
I don't think the divide is mearly over the name of the breed , that is really simplifying the situation. You have seperate clubs all working hard towards protecting and preserving this splendid breed.
The majority of the serious canine fanciers in any breed, may choose to show the dogs in conformation. One, to get the breed out there and gain some recognition.Two, to have the dogs evaluated against a standard to deem them worthy of the breed.Speaking for myself, the devide is over one Club changing the standard to include many colorations on the head. Instead of the three colors, it has been exspanded to include any and all head coloration for the breed.
And yes, color is not everything when you are working hard to produce quality sound healthy puppies. But I do believe strongly in the head coloration of the Biewer Breed.
For me personally the divide is over the standard. Two breed clubs have been using the standard that has been used since 2003 on North American soil. 3 Show venues, have accepted this standard and dogs have been showing under that same standard .06/Ontario Rare Breed, 03/North American Kennel Club, and 03/ IABCA.
There may be many unscrupulous breeders jumping on the band wagon, and this saddens me greatly. But as with many breeds there are always those who interest is not in protecting and preserving.

Other Ethical breeders are involved heavily in the breed , health test, study pedigree, and work dilligently to improve the breed.and Yes, show the Biewers in conformation.
I would suggest to anyone interested in the breed to get involved , attend some shows. Choose the "type" of Biewer that you admire. Get out and meet many of the Biewer Fanciers regardless of Club affiliation. You will find the right mix for you.
On a side note. I am one of many............ who imported a pup from Germany with Livershunt.My heart was broken, as she was to be part of my breeding program. However, with a Fabulous specialist and modern techniques in vet medicine she has been surgically corrected and spayed. She will stay here with us as a pet only.To read more about Cattia feel free to visit my website, I will forwarn you, there are very graphic photo's of her surgery.
So for others to suggest that we are not working hard to eliminate LS from the breed is unfortunate, I myself have surrounded myself with likeminded breeders whos goal is to protect and preserve.
You study pedigrees, attend seminars and educate yourself on how to produce healthy sound puppies.

Yes , I show my Biewers!
And I am very pleased with my accomplishments to date.

Jan Prosser
Welcome to Enchanted Toi Biewers

just wondering what happened to the puppies born to your ls female..
were they also neutered and spayed?
are there other causes for liver shunt besides hereditary?
possibly preservatives in vaccines and over vaccinating?

[kathy785]

It seems that their is controvery over the partis as they are not accepted by the Yorkshire Terrier people, as are the Biewers.

The Biewer community also has its disagreements. I think it is unfair to say it is over the standard that Mrs. Biewer signed last Fall, as even before that time there was bickering. There is three main clubs and each thinks they have the correct standard and rules for their club. Each has their own US registry. Each has their own standard for registration and club memebership. Some believe in registering in Germany, some do not, some allow Yorkie breedings, some do not, some test their dogs, some do not.

When a person is looking for a Biewer, I have always told them to look at all three registries and find one that fits their needs and beliefs. Unfortunately until the Biewers are accepted by FSS or AKC there will be people that disagree. I really don't think that even this will get everyone on the same page. I am sure there will be those that poo-poo AKC and still go on their own.

[Pruett]

Jan

I myself have always treated the Biewer as a breed of its own.
After breeding true for over 20 years, this breed was well on its way to being established.

We have always considered it a breed of it's own also.
Where did you receive the information that the breed has bred true for 20 years?
Birgit Rosner used Splitters, so why is it an impeccable blood line when your club owns the dog and if someone else owns the same line, it's a mix?
Did you know ~ that Mrs. Biewer is well aware of the breeders that used other breeds in their breeding programs?
Did you know ~ Mr. Biewer was breeding HIS Yorkies back to HIS Biewers until he died.
Did you know ~ Sissy's mother is a Yorkie.
Did you know ~ that the Biewer's had a problem with the dogs washing out?
Do you know how the Biewer's retified the problem.

Instead of the three colors, it has been exspanded to include any and all head coloration for the breed.

How do you get 2 colors allowable in the head, to

any and all head coloration for the breed?

The problem is with people not being able to read. That statement is a prime example. 2 colors allowable is a far cry from any and all coloration.

Jan why is the standard written by 2 Mi Ki breeders any better than the standard written by experienced Yorkie, and Biewer breeders?

Do you think you can get your club to measure all their dogs, detail the ear set and hair texture and share the results please? You already have the results on about 80 dogs that we performed this little study on. I think this would be something that needs to be documented closely as we perfect the breed.

Other Ethical breeders are involved heavily in the breed , health test, study pedigree, and work dilligently to improve the breed

I don't think I ever said there weren't others doing this. One thing people have to realize, is that the so many of the pedigrees are false, so all the research is the world is not going to help. Don't think for one minute that all your pedigreees are true.

I have asked for the results of the major research Sue has done on the piebald gene and who she is working with, only to be totally ignored.
If I never answered your questions, what would you think?
I can tell you what you'd would think, and that is that I was lying, and that I'm not answering because I'm not doing what I claim.
The biggest problem is people claiming to do things they aren't.
People misinterpreting what's being said.
People listening to lies and rumors without asking for proof.
People out right lying about other people.

I sincerely believe that most the people in the clubs are doing what they think is best for the breed.

[Delightyorkies]

This is what I have a recurring problem with.The Minute Irene Stellar and some of the first BBCI Board members bought them self some Biewers, they made up this Story about their impeccable Bloodlines ,their wonderful Breeders that mirror their beliefs etc.All of that is such a farce.I look at the Bloodlines the BBCI members have and it is the biggest Lie to tell people that these are impeccable lines.You tell any advanced Biewer breeder in Germany that the BBCI member consider their lines top notch and they roll laughing on the floor.Only because people like you Jan are to afraid ,to face the truth about the Biewers does not make us liars.With your invented Stories you have made it nearly impossible for new Biewer Lovers to figure out where to buy their new puppies.Jan's Cattia came from Weissen Bluemchen and her name to this day is misspelled on her website.Mrs Ritterman ,the owner of that Kennel lives in Berlin,receives Welfare and has for this reason their good friend Miros ,peddle her dogs.We have tested several dogs out of this Kennel and none of them are pure.You ask a few people in Germany and they will tell you that this woman breeds everything,she can get her hands on.Birgit Roesner ,Mollies impeccable Breeder.is one of the biggest crooks in Germany.She has always bred Splitters into her lines.She has recently announced that the male she used was heavily infected with herpes.Erika Papp that sells her puppies by the dozens ,on the side of the freeway.Annette Haushofer (von der Hemsbach),sadly to say none of her dogs tested out pure.You are lying to people about your bloodlines.If you so believe that only pure Biewers should be bred ,why did you purchase puppies that have all kinds of Yorkshire Terriers in their lines.?Why are you so afraid to test your dogs?You would rather discredit the Mars test than admit that your dogs are not that great.How is that bettering the breed.?You and your friends created a fairytale about the Biewer's which now most of you believe.

[EnchantedToi]

Originally Posted by cesar49

just wondering what happened to the puppies born to your ls female..
were they also neutered and spayed?
are there other causes for liver shunt besides hereditary?
possibly preservatives in vaccines and over vaccinating?

My female was corrected and spayed at an early age, and was never bred. Yes there are other types of shunts.Sadly there is MVD that is affecting many small breeds as well.
Here is one of many links with information
LiverShunt

[EnchantedToi]

[/QUOTE]
These are supposed to be exciting times as the Biewer Terrier establishes itself in the US as its own separate breed, apart from the Yorkie but instead we are constantly bickering about a name. It cannot be stressed enough that as long as some insist on calling it a Yorkie it will never be accepted by the AKC. No matter what anyone says it is the ultimate goal of dog breeders that introduce a new breed to one day be recognized by the major kennel clubs.[/QUOTE]

As mentioned previously I have always felt the Biewer was and is a seperate breed.However, as also previously mentioned for the past few years.... breeders did and continue to breed back to a Yorkshire Terrier. This is not how you establish a breed!
When the data is available to be reviewed by a group of peers( of animal husbandry)ie; Other canine genetisist , can be substantiated. I'm sure everyone will be very excited.

[Carterna]

That clip was cute & kind of silly!!! Loved it! Thanks for posting!

[EnchantedToi]

Originally Posted by Pruett

Jan
We have always considered it a breed of it's own also.
Where did you receive the information that the breed has bred true for 20 years?
Birgit Rosner used Splitters, so why is it an impeccable blood line when your club owns the dog and if someone else owns the same line, it's a mix?
Did you know ~ that Mrs. Biewer is well aware of the breeders that used other breeds in their breeding programs?
Did you know ~ Mr. Biewer was breeding HIS Yorkies back to HIS Biewers until he died.
Did you know ~ Sissy's mother is a Yorkie.
Did you know ~ that the Biewer's had a problem with the dogs washing out?
Do you know how the Biewer's retified the problem.

How do you get 2 colors allowable in the head, to
The problem is with people not being able to read. That statement is a prime example. 2 colors allowable is a far cry from any and all coloration.

Jan why is the standard written by 2 Mi Ki breeders any better than the standard written by experienced Yorkie, and Biewer breeders?

Do you think you can get your club to measure all their dogs, detail the ear set and hair texture and share the results please? You already have the results on about 80 dogs that we performed this little study on. I think this would be something that needs to be documented closely as we perfect the breed.


I don't think I ever said there weren't others doing this. One thing people have to realize, is that the so many of the pedigrees are false, so all the research is the world is not going to help. Don't think for one minute that all your pedigreees are true.

I have asked for the results of the major research Sue has done on the piebald gene and who she is working with, only to be totally ignored.
If I never answered your questions, what would you think?
I can tell you what you'd would think, and that is that I was lying, and that I'm not answering because I'm not doing what I claim.
The biggest problem is people claiming to do things they aren't.
People misinterpreting what's being said.
People listening to lies and rumors without asking for proof.
People out right lying about other people.

I sincerely believe that most the people in the clubs are doing what they think is best for the breed.

I did not state that the breed has been breeding true for 20 years, I did however, say that the breed has been on the ground for over 20 years. As with any canine group you will have those working to perfect the breed, and those who will breed willy nilly with other breeds.

I do not doubt that the Biewers bred Yorkshire Terriers into the firstBiewers to help establish the breed. So your really barking up the wrong tree here, I am not out for public debate.
My goal is to better my own program, and show my dogs in conformation. I personally have chosen to show under a standard which calls for a Tri( three colored head) That being said. the venues in which i show under call for a Tri ( Three colored head)This is my prefrence.


The standard that your club has written..
* Taken from your Biewer Terrier Standard* includes
Head coloring is (Blue/Black, White, Gold/Tan); (Blue/Black, Gold/Tan); (Gold/Tan, White) in good symmetry.

In my personal opinion... this pretty much includes any and all possible head color variations.Again... my opinion

Many breeders that I know, and have had the privliage of meeting at the shows feel very adamant about a three colored head.

You now have ARBA who has accepted your standard in which to show your dogs. So I don't really see what the problem is.

We will have to respectfully agree to disagree on the standard.

Jan Prosser
EnchantedToi

[EnchantedToi]

[quote=sierrapups;2091605]

Wow! Was this really necessary?

After reading this particular post below.. Yes, yes indeed I think it was necessary.

Originally Posted by Delightyorkies
This is what I have a recurring problem with.The Minute Irene Stellar and some of the first BBCI Board members bought them self some Biewers, they made up this Story about their impeccable Bloodlines ,their wonderful Breeders that mirror their beliefs etc.All of that is such a farce.I look at the Bloodlines the BBCI members have and it is the biggest Lie to tell people that these are impeccable lines.You tell any advanced Biewer breeder in Germany that the BBCI member consider their lines top notch and they roll laughing on the floor.Only because people like you Jan are to afraid ,to face the truth about the Biewers does not make us liars.With your invented Stories you have made it nearly impossible for new Biewer Lovers to figure out where to buy their new puppies.Jan's Cattia came from Weissen Bluemchen and her name to this day is misspelled on her website.Mrs Ritterman ,the owner of that Kennel lives in Berlin,receives Welfare and has for this reason their good friend Miros ,peddle her dogs.We have tested several dogs out of this Kennel and none of them are pure.You ask a few people in Germany and they will tell you that this woman breeds everything,she can get her hands on.Birgit Roesner ,Mollies impeccable Breeder.is one of the biggest crooks in Germany.She has always bred Splitters into her lines.She has recently announced that the male she used was heavily infected with herpes.Erika Papp that sells her puppies by the dozens ,on the side of the freeway.Annette Haushofer (von der Hemsbach),sadly to say none of her dogs tested out pure.You are lying to people about your bloodlines.If you so believe that only pure Biewers should be bred ,why did you purchase puppies that have all kinds of Yorkshire Terriers in their lines.?Why are you so afraid to test your dogs?You would rather discredit the Mars test than admit that your dogs are not that great.How is that bettering the breed.?You and your friends created a fairytale about the Biewer's which now most of you believe.

[Delightyorkies]

The pedigree you posted about Cattia has several misspellings ,if you would have compared it to other pedigrees, with the same ancestors you could not have missed it.There is NO Kennel in Germany called Weiben Blumchen.Who ever copied the pedigree from the original turned the German letter constituting 2 ss into a b.The Kennel Name is from Weissen Bluemchen.It makes me wonder how much research you did on your Liver shunt puppy not to catch that.In order for us to stay on top of the pedigrees and protect people from buying into Liver shunt lines ,my God at least the spelling should be correct.