LOL I know, could you imagine going to take a bite of food and having a flea jump up on your next bite??

That's really very far from the truth..I have 3 kids(all grown now, and 2 kids)..my dogs are dogs, but, they're also my children now..When I'm here with them, they get played with, dont' take them anywhere, hard to haul 4 dogs, and if you love them as your child, that's cool, but the bottom line is "they're still a dog"..

EXACTLY. Doggie License. It could be on their collar in clear view, kind of like a rabies tag. IMO, it should be mandatory for all dogs going out - that way it solves the problem of discrimination. As I said previously, if the dog isn't trained, the dog stays home. Problem solved and no one's panties are ruffled.

Not sure where you're going with the allergy thing or if you're directing that at someone else. Since you are & have been quoting me & me alone (which, FYI, I personally find insulting), I'm going to do the logical thing & assume this was directed towards me. I never mentioned allergies. Also, as far as I can tell, we're saying the same thing, no? I'm honestly not quite sure why you're continuously quoting me? Are you agreeing with me, or are you trying to pick a fight? Maybe you just aren't familiar with proper netiquette?

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For everyone else ranting & raving about how things are soooooooo much better in Europe....

....chew on this....


FRANCE:
The Law of 31 July 1987 provides free access for guide dog owners* to all places and facilities open to the general public.
With regard to public buildings and catering facilities however, the Law imposes sanitary restrictions prohibiting guide dog access to e.g. care units in hospitals, kitchens in catering facilities, etc.

t may be requested that guide dogs* are muzzled in public transport. Some private transport companies impose access restrictions.
Across the board, the 1987 Law does not seem to be adequately publicized. There have been several reported cases of guide dog* owners being refused access to public facilities (cinemas, restaurants, etc.) by staff who were unaware of existing provisions. Source: Guide dog access to public facilities in Europe.

It may also be requested that guide dogs * be muzzled in air transports.
You can be required to show your disability card and a document identifying your dog as guide dog.*
However it may happen that your interlocutors are unaware of guide dogs* access rights. The best attitude is to inform them, a smile being your best advocate!

However free access does not mean absence of rules. Your guide dog* could be denied access if he/she does not behave.
For instance:

* He/she is expected to relieve himself/herself in the curb, not on the pavement.
* Do not let him/her run all over the place in restaurants or on the beach, jump on the seats in taxis or sleep on your bed in hotels!

Source: Guide Dog French Federation.

Dogs not welcome in GB?
Q- i went to London and Dogs are not allowed to go nowere...i am alone and i cant leave my dog home,i travel a lot with my dog, spain, france, italy, no problems in restaurant, hotel or department store...GB i had big problem.

A-There are places you can take your dogs, hotels etc... search on the internet to find them. Dont forget that UK is a lot colder than the mediterranean climate and so do not have restaurants with seating outside where you are welcome with your dog. And the health and safety regulations are very strict. We love our dogs, but you just have to know where you can go to take them with you. Source: Yahoo Answers.

Dogs are the bane of walkers in France. Every farm has quantities of them.....None of these dogs is a pet; our meeting with the woman and her spaniel was one of the few times we met someone taking a dog for a walk. They are deterrents....The ones in the outskirts of towns and villages are the worst; their dogs are kept behind wire fences & skip up and down barking & growling, teeth bared, only a couple of feet away as you walk past. Their confinement turns rage into Hysteria. Atleast the farm dogs have room to roam about and work out their frustration. Source: Source: Miles Moreland, Miles Away: A walk across France.

Luxury Apartment in Paris France:
No Pets
Sleeps 2 No Smoking
1 Bedroom Full Kitchen
1.5 Bathrooms 1 Floor
Children Allowed

Source: one of many, many available adverts found via a simple Google search for accommodations.

Oh -- and here's the kicker...

In France, dogs were widely eaten during famines. Source:
Wikipedia

So, professor, Yong-Geun Ann at Chungcheong College proved her statement of the French not eating dog meat to be a lie, writing an article in The Jungangilbo (Dec. 6th, 2001) stating the French ate dog meat during the Frenco-Prussian War, presenting documents from butcher shops in France in the 1870s, and a photo (from a French book) showing the opening of a dog meat butcher's in France. The following are the materials showing that the French ate dog meat...... (The remainder of the article can be found: here.)

I also happen to know for a fact that dogs are NOT allowed in many museums in Paris. How? Because I've been there, many, many times myself. Unfortunately, I can't seem to find a good solid written down regulation to back that up. Could be a translation thing in that no one has bothered to translate the regulations out of French.


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The point of this bitter diatribe? It's just as touch and go in Europe, in particular, France as it is here in America. Do your homework.

While I absolutely agree that Europeans as a whole are more dog friendly than Americans, I think blindly saying that "I'm moving to France b/c my dog can do anything & go anywhere there..." solely based on hearsay, or possibly even visual evidence based on a tourist experience, is a little silly. But, I digress.....

I guess I'm just not a slippery slope kind of person. Nor am I a sheep. Or maybe I just woke up in a bad mood this morning and found this thread to be a little bit ridiculous in the first place. Isn't everyone, save a small few, saying the same thing in the first place? Why the need for a 10 page argument over something that almost everyone seems to agree on?

Bottom line: If the dog is well behaved and well trained, yes, in most cases, it should be allowed. If not, like a spoiled child who annoys spectators, a spoiled or unruly dog should be kept at home until s/he learns better!


*If guide dogs, which have legal protections (and fines of 300 Euro for violations of their rights) in France, have trouble, what do you think this means for common pets?

I apologize if you were insulted. As far as I know, it is okay to quote something which you are responding to. I have read nothing that would lead me to believe otherwise. Why would I try to pick a fight with you? I thought we were on the same page and simply exchanging ideas.

I was making a comment about allergies that others had brought up. I apologize if that wasn't made clear in my statement.

I will refrain from quoting you in the future. My apologies.

I still think having allergies is a very valid concern.

No, one service dog in an establishment may not affect someone, but if dogs are allowed all the time, and everyone is bringing a dog with them, the cumulative effect is going to be more dander/hair from the dogs and that can most definitely have an affect on an allergic person.

Service dogs are allowed places because they have to be allowed. A disabled person *needs* that dog to assist them and they've gone through specialized training to do their job.

A companion animal is probably not trained in the way the service dog is in most cases, and I'm sure establishments see it as they aren't needed to come to the store just for fun.

Kiwiglaze, it would seem that *I* misunderstood *you.* For that, I offer my sincerest apologies. Given the nature of this thread, I guess I just took it the wrong way. No hard feelings??

I get really upset when I hear people dogging out the U.S.A. People really just have no idea how great we have it here.

You are right, although, they tend to be taking away more and more from the Americans, and telling them what they can and can not do, but, compared to a lot of the other countries, YES, we have it a lot better here than other places..

I agree with all of this. Maybe I'm selfish but I'm not that sympathetic to those with allergies either, unless they may go into anaphylactic shock. We all have things we have to deal with and allergies are something that person has to deal with. We shouldn't all have to accomadate someone because THEY have the problem. There are things I don't like to be around and things that make me very uncomfortable or nervous, but that's my problem.

Okay, now that this is all brought up, let me ask a question? Okay, how many people in here that want to be able to let dogs in restaurants, don't like being around cigarette smoke? See, the reason I'm asking, is because there are a lot of people that smoke, but, because of people breathing in 2nd hand smoke, smokers at a lot of places(restaurants), aren't allowed to smoke inside..so, if they want to let dogs in, then they should allow smoker to continue smoking in restaurants..A lot of towns here are going to "smoke free"...something else to think about..

I agree I agree and women or men and their cologne of choice can sometimes be even more offensive and can cause an allergic reaction faster then other things;)

smoking is very different. Lung Cancer is one of the leading causes of death in the US and it's all because of smoking...those that smoke and those exposed to second hand smoke. Lung cancer is deadly...allergies usually are not. I've had two grandparents die of lung cancer and one that was recently diagnosed so I know how serious it can be. Allergies is NOT serious (unless someone has SEVERE allergies). So huge difference in cigarettes being banned and allowing dogs to be in a restaurant. It's not okay to kill someone else because you're addicted to a drug...

I think it's different when people actually become ill from something, than not liking something.

Also, people with major allergies or phobias do not expect to see dogs when they're going out to eat, or grocery shopping so if they cannot tolerate being around that, how are they supposed to shop or do the things they need to do?

And I know you're saying you don't think we should accommodate someone who's afraid/allergic to dogs, but then why should stores accommodate people who want to shop with their dogs?

For the amount of dog lovers that would be happy about the changes, there'd be an equal number of people who would be unhappy about it.

I'm really not trying to start an argument, I'm just trying to discuss a different side of things.

I love my dogs just as much as everyone else, but I'm curious why we sometimes feel (and by we I'm including myself), a sense of entitlement to bring them everywhere, even places they aren't allowed.

Sorry - I love my dogs too, but don't feel there's any place in a restaurant for them - I also have skin kids - (4 of them) - and when they were younger - there were restaurants they had no business being in - and so they weren't - We would get take out if we could not take them. - or find a sitter. Baxter is my life - but I don't believe he should be allowed everywhere a human is.
JMO

I guess there has to be a stopping point because if I "Ruled the World" I would be much more strict on people wearing perfume in restaurants. So much of taste is smell and nothing makes me madder than to be in a restaurant and "tasting" someone's perfume with my meal!

I'm okay with the no dogs in restaurants (though we take her to several places with patios that allow them) but I am so looking forward to going back to Europe this summer and bringing Lucy. I have always loved that dogs are welcome in so many places and restaurants and after so many years of seeing others I will be bringing my own! Lucy does Europe 2008:p

Nordstroms, Bloomingdales, Neimans, most of the boutiques etc. here in my area welcome Lucy to come in and shop with me. One of my favorite past times is shopping with my girl :)

Oh don't worry..everyone has a right to their own opinion ;) And yes, it is different for those that are so allergic that they become very ill or could possibly die. And I definitely see your point about accomadating (I do not know how to spell that word :p ) both. Two sides to it. I understand health codes to a point but wish I could take Lacy with me more places. I'm actually okay with not being able to take her INSIDE restaurants and grocery stores, but I think dogs should be allowed to eat on the patio (outside) at any restaurant and be able to go into any stores that don't serve/sell food