For those who doubted my breeding! - Page 2 - YorkieTalk.com Forums

BarclaysMom · 12-30-2007, 05:34 PM

Congrats on the new arrivals!! Glad mom and babies doing great!!

Rosey07 · 12-30-2007, 05:39 PM

Well, I'm proud of you! I don't know you or the conversation you are talking about...nor a thing about breeding...dogs that is...but still...I'm prod of you and damn proud for you!! CLAP!!! CLAP!!!

YorkieRose · 12-30-2007, 05:44 PM

Shoot, if I waited until I knew everything there was to know about breeding, I would still be waiting to breed my first litter...having a mentor is the best way to go, only way IMO..no one can learn enough from books and forums, at some point you have to actually do it and the mentor will be there at every turn...

WidsMom · 12-30-2007, 06:06 PM

Congrats on a healthy delivery!

I did read that thread. Although some of the posts were strong, I don't think the majority of concern was that your dog could have pups successfully. I think the concern was more for a lack of awareness as to the dogs history and potential for genetic problems.

I've always been interested in breeding Chihuahuas. I just adore the breed. But after talking with several women who have been breeding for 20+ years, I realized that to truly show a love of the breed, a thorough knowlege of each lines benefits and deficits are vital. Dogs are usually quite successful at reproducing! LOL...but it's what lies inside, the luxating patellas, the liver shunts, the heart defects, the hydrocephalus'...what hides in the DNA, that is the hard part. It may not show in one generation, or even two..but go back in your research and a weakness to watch for will reveal itself. And we have to be unselfish enough to NOT breed that beloved, cherished, 'perfect' pet if a weakness shows up. We have a choice.....WE have to make it a responsible one for any breed we love.

This is not meant to be in any way disheartening to you. However, I have had the experience of owning several loving 'results' of non-researched breeding. One had hydrocephalus, one had atlanto-axial subluxation, two have grade 4 luxating patellas and two had grade 3 heart murmurs. The first two needed neurosurgery. Their total bill was about $4,800.00. And those precious ones had to be re-homed with a vet. tech at the Neurosurgery Clinic of Maine. Of the babies with LP, one had to have her right knee repaired at the cost of $750.00 five years ago, she's nine now and has arthritis. The two with heart murmurs were on cardizem and lasix until they passed away.

I promised myself that until I was prepared to research as much genetic history as possible, and then also prepared to purchase from a line that was supported by that...that I wouldn't do it. What if on of my beloved dogs produced a baby that needed open heart surgery? That needed liver shunt surgery? Am I in a position to support that emotionally, financially, and responsiblity wise? For me, the answer was no.

See, I've been, and currently am, on the other end. I'm daily loving and caring for someone else's desire to let their much loved pet 'just have a litter'. She's old now, and not well. Spinal problems, knee problems, various neurosis and skin ailments. And I love her. I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

Joy

yorkiekist · 12-30-2007, 06:10 PM

Great post Widsmom!!!!! I agree that much research must be done before attempting to breed.

erickajm · 12-30-2007, 06:11 PM

No one goes into breeding knowing absolutely everything there is to know. (At least I wouldn't think) There is always something to learn and new surprises around every corner...Congrats to you and the new mommy! Rookie or not...I'm sure all three will bring tons of laughs and love and in my opinion...that is in the end what it is all about!

bettyeanne · 12-30-2007, 06:17 PM

Congratulations!!!! I didn't see/know about the thread either. Just wanted to say that I am so happy for you that things went well and would love to see pics of your sweet babies & their Mom!!

tjdmom · 12-30-2007, 06:34 PM

Congratulations! So glad you didn't have those babies aborted. Now....Where's our photos?

livingdustmops · 12-30-2007, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WidsMom

Congrats on a healthy delivery!

I did read that thread. Although some of the posts were strong, I don't think the majority of concern was that your dog could have pups successfully. I think the concern was more for a lack of awareness as to the dogs history and potential for genetic problems.

I've always been interested in breeding Chihuahuas. I just adore the breed. But after talking with several women who have been breeding for 20+ years, I realized that to truly show a love of the breed, a thorough knowlege of each lines benefits and deficits are vital. Dogs are usually quite successful at reproducing! LOL...but it's what lies inside, the luxating patellas, the liver shunts, the heart defects, the hydrocephalus'...what hides in the DNA, that is the hard part. It may not show in one generation, or even two..but go back in your research and a weakness to watch for will reveal itself. And we have to be unselfish enough to NOT breed that beloved, cherished, 'perfect' pet if a weakness shows up. We have a choice.....WE have to make it a responsible one for any breed we love.

This is not meant to be in any way disheartening to you. However, I have had the experience of owning several loving 'results' of non-researched breeding. One had hydrocephalus, one had atlanto-axial subluxation, two have grade 4 luxating patellas and two had grade 3 heart murmurs. The first two needed neurosurgery. Their total bill was about $4,800.00. And those precious ones had to be re-homed with a vet. tech at the Neurosurgery Clinic of Maine. Of the babies with LP, one had to have her right knee repaired at the cost of $750.00 five years ago, she's nine now and has arthritis. The two with heart murmurs were on cardizem and lasix until they passed away.

I promised myself that until I was prepared to research as much genetic history as possible, and then also prepared to purchase from a line that was supported by that...that I wouldn't do it. What if on of my beloved dogs produced a baby that needed open heart surgery? That needed liver shunt surgery? Am I in a position to support that emotionally, financially, and responsiblity wise? For me, the answer was no.

See, I've been, and currently am, on the other end. I'm daily loving and caring for someone else's desire to let their much loved pet 'just have a litter'. She's old now, and not well. Spinal problems, knee problems, various neurosis and skin ailments. And I love her. I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

Joy

What a wonderful post and I applaud you for thinking about the dogs first and what can happen with poor breeding.

christyaran · 12-30-2007, 06:48 PM

Hey everyone.. thanks for all the replies, put a nice smile on my face! I am glad that everyone is happy. The previous thread was a mean one, had many people bashing me & I totally turned away from the forum. But thought hey... I gotta let those know that were mean & bashful how everything went. Now i know what it takes & I will look out for anything & everything. As u read, i fed her all the "right" foods & vitamins, & she was at the vet 14 hrs after giving birth. I thought we may have had an extra baby inside but nope, she was fine! I am attaching some pics of what I have i will update next week with more pics!

MyFairLacy · 12-30-2007, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WidsMom

Congrats on a healthy delivery!

I did read that thread. Although some of the posts were strong, I don't think the majority of concern was that your dog could have pups successfully. I think the concern was more for a lack of awareness as to the dogs history and potential for genetic problems.

I've always been interested in breeding Chihuahuas. I just adore the breed. But after talking with several women who have been breeding for 20+ years, I realized that to truly show a love of the breed, a thorough knowlege of each lines benefits and deficits are vital. Dogs are usually quite successful at reproducing! LOL...but it's what lies inside, the luxating patellas, the liver shunts, the heart defects, the hydrocephalus'...what hides in the DNA, that is the hard part. It may not show in one generation, or even two..but go back in your research and a weakness to watch for will reveal itself. And we have to be unselfish enough to NOT breed that beloved, cherished, 'perfect' pet if a weakness shows up. We have a choice.....WE have to make it a responsible one for any breed we love.

This is not meant to be in any way disheartening to you. However, I have had the experience of owning several loving 'results' of non-researched breeding. One had hydrocephalus, one had atlanto-axial subluxation, two have grade 4 luxating patellas and two had grade 3 heart murmurs. The first two needed neurosurgery. Their total bill was about $4,800.00. And those precious ones had to be re-homed with a vet. tech at the Neurosurgery Clinic of Maine. Of the babies with LP, one had to have her right knee repaired at the cost of $750.00 five years ago, she's nine now and has arthritis. The two with heart murmurs were on cardizem and lasix until they passed away.

I promised myself that until I was prepared to research as much genetic history as possible, and then also prepared to purchase from a line that was supported by that...that I wouldn't do it. What if on of my beloved dogs produced a baby that needed open heart surgery? That needed liver shunt surgery? Am I in a position to support that emotionally, financially, and responsiblity wise? For me, the answer was no.

See, I've been, and currently am, on the other end. I'm daily loving and caring for someone else's desire to let their much loved pet 'just have a litter'. She's old now, and not well. Spinal problems, knee problems, various neurosis and skin ailments. And I love her. I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

Joy

What a great post. To the OP - unfortunately you really aren't "out of the woods" yet...not knowing the history of the dogs that were bred & their lines, there could be potential problems that lie ahead for these puppies. They could develop health issues down the road. Hopefully not..I hope they stay healthy

christyaran · 12-30-2007, 06:54 PM

all i care about is that they are doing wonderful now. I know the mother dog's parents & she has gone through 3 successful litters... one litter was roughly large as well. My Stud- I have his pedigree & I have never seen any problems with him in the 4 yrs I own him. I thank you all very much, but like always ppl want to warn, but why feel like u may jinx someone? Just wish them luck & go on ur merry way! Thank you very much!

MyFairLacy · 12-30-2007, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by christyaran

all i care about is that they are doing wonderful now. I know the mother dog's parents & she has gone through 3 successful litters... one litter was roughly large as well. My Stud- I have his pedigree & I have never seen any problems with him in the 4 yrs I own him. I thank you all very much, but like always ppl want to warn, but why feel like u may jinx someone? Just wish them luck & go on ur merry way! Thank you very much!

It's not that people aren't wishing you well. We all hope those babies stay strong and healthy. We just want you to be prepared in case problems do arise, especially for whoever buys these puppies. I know you posted in your previous thread that your male has collapsed trachea & someone on that thread said he had LP too...both of those are genetic problems that will most likely be passed on to these puppies. Whoever buys these puppies needs to be aware that those problems are likely to arise in their puppies...collapsed trachea can be fatal and LP can be expensive to fix. My Lacy has LP in both her knees...her right leg is really bad. I worry all the time that she'll need surgery for it one day.

YorkieRose · 12-30-2007, 07:00 PM

Make sure you remove the back declaws..they are a problem for adults on the hind legs...best wishes...

yorkiekist · 12-30-2007, 07:01 PM

There are alot of problems that you cant "see". And just because the grandmoter is a free whelper doesnt meen zip. And a pedigree wont tell you anything either. I can see why you were bashed on your last post awhile back. You dont want to listen to any of the more experienced breeders nor do you want to learn from them either. I think you only posted this to gloat and say "na na na na na na" to all the people that tried to help you. You seem to take everyones help as a personal stab at you.

12-30-2007, 05:44 PM	#18
YorkieRose No Longer a Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: South Florida Posts: 8,577	litter Shoot, if I waited until I knew everything there was to know about breeding, I would still be waiting to breed my first litter...having a mentor is the best way to go, only way IMO..no one can learn enough from books and forums, at some point you have to actually do it and the mentor will be there at every turn...

12-30-2007, 06:06 PM	#19
WidsMom Donating Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: USA Posts: 277	Congrats on a healthy delivery! I did read that thread. Although some of the posts were strong, I don't think the majority of concern was that your dog could have pups successfully. I think the concern was more for a lack of awareness as to the dogs history and potential for genetic problems. I've always been interested in breeding Chihuahuas. I just adore the breed. But after talking with several women who have been breeding for 20+ years, I realized that to truly show a love of the breed, a thorough knowlege of each lines benefits and deficits are vital. Dogs are usually quite successful at reproducing! LOL...but it's what lies inside, the luxating patellas, the liver shunts, the heart defects, the hydrocephalus'...what hides in the DNA, that is the hard part. It may not show in one generation, or even two..but go back in your research and a weakness to watch for will reveal itself. And we have to be unselfish enough to NOT breed that beloved, cherished, 'perfect' pet if a weakness shows up. *We have a choice*.....WE have to make it a responsible one for any breed we love. This is not meant to be in any way disheartening to you. However, I have had the experience of owning several loving 'results' of non-researched breeding. One had hydrocephalus, one had atlanto-axial subluxation, two have grade 4 luxating patellas and two had grade 3 heart murmurs. The first two needed neurosurgery. Their total bill was about $4,800.00. And those precious ones had to be re-homed with a vet. tech at the Neurosurgery Clinic of Maine. Of the babies with LP, one had to have her right knee repaired at the cost of $750.00 five years ago, she's nine now and has arthritis. The two with heart murmurs were on cardizem and lasix until they passed away. I promised myself that until I was prepared to research as much genetic history as possible, and then also prepared to purchase from a line that was supported by that...that I wouldn't do it. What if on of my beloved dogs produced a baby that needed open heart surgery? That needed liver shunt surgery? Am I in a position to support that emotionally, financially, and responsiblity wise? For me, the answer was no. See, I've been, and currently am, on the other end. I'm daily loving and caring for someone else's desire to let their much loved pet 'just have a litter'. She's old now, and not well. Spinal problems, knee problems, various neurosis and skin ailments. And I love her. I wouldn't wish that on anyone. Joy __________________ Mom of Haley and Pim!

12-30-2007, 06:17 PM	#22
bettyeanne Donating YT 7000 Club Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Alabama, etc. Posts: 9,031	Congratulations!!!! I didn't see/know about the thread either. Just wanted to say that I am so happy for you that things went well and would love to see pics of your sweet babies & their Mom!! __________________ Toto's Mom - http://www.dogster.com/?206581 Yorkie Rescue Colorado - http://www.yorkierescuecolorado.com/ "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has limits." -- Albert Einstein

12-30-2007, 06:48 PM	#25
christyaran Yorkie Talker Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Miami Posts: 23	Pics & response! Hey everyone.. thanks for all the replies, put a nice smile on my face! I am glad that everyone is happy. The previous thread was a mean one, had many people bashing me & I totally turned away from the forum. But thought hey... I gotta let those know that were mean & bashful how everything went. Now i know what it takes & I will look out for anything & everything. As u read, i fed her all the "right" foods & vitamins, & she was at the vet 14 hrs after giving birth. I thought we may have had an extra baby inside but nope, she was fine! I am attaching some pics of what I have i will update next week with more pics! Attached Thumbnails

12-30-2007, 07:00 PM	#29
YorkieRose No Longer a Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: South Florida Posts: 8,577	litter Make sure you remove the back declaws..they are a problem for adults on the hind legs...best wishes...

12-30-2007, 05:34 PM	#16
BarclaysMom Yorkie Yakker Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: md Posts: 69	Congrats on the new arrivals!! Glad mom and babies doing great!!

12-30-2007, 05:39 PM	#17
Rosey07 No Longer a Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: way down South Posts: 860	Well, I'm proud of you! I don't know you or the conversation you are talking about...nor a thing about breeding...dogs that is...but still...I'm prod of you and damn proud for you!! CLAP!!! CLAP!!!

12-30-2007, 06:10 PM	#20
yorkiekist YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: HOT, HOT, HOT AZ Posts: 3,150	Great post Widsmom!!!!! I agree that much research must be done before attempting to breed.

12-30-2007, 06:11 PM	#21
erickajm Donating YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Central Pennsylvania Posts: 3,200	No one goes into breeding knowing absolutely everything there is to know. (At least I wouldn't think) There is always something to learn and new surprises around every corner...Congrats to you and the new mommy! Rookie or not...I'm sure all three will bring tons of laughs and love and in my opinion...that is in the end what it is all about!

12-30-2007, 06:34 PM	#23
tjdmom Donating YT 500 Club Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: upstate ny Posts: 5,847	Congratulations! So glad you didn't have those babies aborted. Now....Where's our photos?

12-30-2007, 06:54 PM	#27
christyaran Yorkie Talker Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Miami Posts: 23	all i care about is that they are doing wonderful now. I know the mother dog's parents & she has gone through 3 successful litters... one litter was roughly large as well. My Stud- I have his pedigree & I have never seen any problems with him in the 4 yrs I own him. I thank you all very much, but like always ppl want to warn, but why feel like u may jinx someone? Just wish them luck & go on ur merry way! Thank you very much!

12-30-2007, 07:01 PM	#30
yorkiekist YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: HOT, HOT, HOT AZ Posts: 3,150	There are alot of problems that you cant "see". And just because the grandmoter is a free whelper doesnt meen zip. And a pedigree wont tell you anything either. I can see why you were bashed on your last post awhile back. You dont want to listen to any of the more experienced breeders nor do you want to learn from them either. I think you only posted this to gloat and say "na na na na na na" to all the people that tried to help you. You seem to take everyones help as a personal stab at you.