Yorkie puppy attacked by our other dog! (long)

[Judy in Waco]

This is our situation. We adopted Sugar (a cairn terrier mix rescue) who is 14 lbs. several months ago. She and my husband bonded really well. She is a very sweet and wonderful female, but she had issues. As a puppy, she was left crated for up to 13 hours a day, and her owners became increasingly frustrated by the fact that she wasn't housetrained. (Well..duh.) Her foster family was wonderful and they kept her in their large, fenced backyard. She was constantly picked on by her other bigger dogs. Her foster mother always felt like she should be an inside dog, but didn't have the time to housetrain her fully. Well, we took Sugar in, finished her housetraining, loved her, gave her the first toys and treats we think she's had. We estimate that she's about two years old. We asked her foster mother how she thought Sugar would react to a yorkie puppy BEFORE we got the puppy and she felt that she would be fine.

We have kept them separated and have been gradually introducing them to each other over the past few weeks. Everything seemed promising, but Sugar just didn't seem to know how to "play". We were having a supervised play session between Sugar and Gizmo (yorkie puppy/ male, 15 weeks old, 3.25 lbs.) when Sugar "appeared" to ATTACK the puppy! She was on top of him and it looked like she shook him. There were growls from Sugar, high pitched pained cries from the puppy. My husband lunged for Sugar and the puppy and so did I. (My husband's stiches from surgery started bleeding as a result). We took the dogs to separate rooms. Gizmo cried out the whole way into the living room with me. When he calmed down, we found NOTHING wrong with him. I've checked him over, my husband has checked him over and our son has checked him over and we can find no sore spots or anything visible.

Before this, Sugar has "corrected" the puppy a few times by light growling and Gizmo has backed off and rolled over onto his belly, but NOTHING like this!!!!

Now I am afraid that next time she could kill him. I have left a phone message for Sugar's foster mom, but she hasn't called me back yet.

Sugar also growls and barks around any repairmen who come to our house and our older son who doesn't live with us. We have worked with her to let her know this is unacceptable behavior and when she reacts well around strangers we praise and reward her. I just don't know what to do. Any insight would be appreciated.

[tjdmom]

gosh. I wish I had advice for you. I have an older collie who is not thrilled with our new family member and she does get a little food agressive with the puppy never with us. She is 10 and has always been such a sweetheart and we were shocked that she is being so difficult. Mind you, she has not attacked Zoe but she does make me a little nervous an I would never leave them alone unsupervised. Anyways, I am having a trainer come to the house next week and this is one of the reasons why so I will let you know how I make out then. Good Luck. Theresa

[chattiesmom]

I can offer condolences but not advice. I know how much it hurts. My two adult yorkie females Chattie and Chizzie fight and are kept separated 24/7. We have adjusted --Chattie lives in our huge masterbedroom (about 1/3 of the main level of our home) with access outside on the covered porch. Chizzie has the the rest of the main level.

[FirstYorkie]

I think it would be a good idea to consult a professional trainer in this situation.

Good luck!

[bren]

Max had (has) fear issues, especially around my brother's boxer (who has NEVER done ANYTHING to Max other than play in his rough, boxer-like way), and I hired a behaviorist to help. She did really well with him and Max can now tolerate Vito. I would still never leave them alone unsupervised but it has certainly made things easier when I visit my parents

[Judy in Waco]

I just talked to Sugar's rescue foster mom and let her know about our issue. We are going to talk again later today. She will also consult with the head of the rescue group and see what they can suggest. She was very surprised by Sugar's behavior. She said that Sugar ALWAYS showed submission, even to her five lb. Chi's and she never would have expected to Sugar to treat a puppy that way.

All I can figure out is that Sugar's confidence has increased since we adopted her, and recently her world was turned upside down with John's surgery (not as much time with her) and the new puppy.

The behaviorist sounds like a good idea, but how do I go about finding a good one locally?

[bren]

Originally Posted by Judy in Waco

I just talked to Sugar's rescue foster mom and let her know about our issue. We are going to talk again later today. She will also consult with the head of the rescue group and see what they can suggest. She was very surprised by Sugar's behavior. She said that Sugar ALWAYS showed submission, even to her five lb. Chi's and she never would have expected to Sugar to treat a puppy that way.

All I can figure out is that Sugar's confidence has increased since we adopted her, and recently her world was turned upside down with John's surgery (not as much time with her) and the new puppy.

The behaviorist sounds like a good idea, but how do I go about finding a good one locally?

I found my behaviorist through my hairdresser, believe it or not! He had yorkies in the past and is a dog person and I asked him if he knew of a good trainer that would be able to help with Max. She is one of his clients and he said that he heard good things about her. I think the best thing to do is just ask around. Does the foster mom know of anyone? Talk to your vet and see if he/she has any recommendations for local trainers. My behaviorist laughed when she found out how I heard about her because most of her referrals had come from vets in the area. You can also check local dog training spots--not pet smart or petco, though. My behaviorist does little training workshops at a few locations locally, so I'm sure if I called them, they would have recommended her as well. And if you find one, ask for references. They can be expensive to hire and you wouldn't want to spend all that money on someone who has little experience and doesn't know what he/she is doing. Good luck!

[DesertChildAZ]

Are you sure that Sugar "attacked" the puppy as opposed with merely trying to "play" with him? My 6 month old yorkie, Johnny Cash, has one heck of a yelp and he's a rough player and he loves to taunt my 1 year old cat. (A cat who is HUGE and about twice the size of Cash) They are best friends and after pouncing pouncing nudging nipping barking nipping...back and forth, the cat will completely immobilize Johnny Cash and pin him to the floor and Johnny will yelp like he's been injured. I run over screaming, thinking Johnny's been injured, and the cat bolts away. And everytime Johnny comes to a full stop, looks at me with that tilted head for a split second (like I'm crazy) and almost immediately, Johnny bolts right back after the cat and continues taunting and playing with the cat as if nothing happened. "Ah, Mom, relax already!!!"

Could you have overreacted and the puppy got frightened by your reaction and kept crying? (I know my instinct is to run over and separate them so I freak out sometimes...but in the end I see that they are just playing and I'm overreacting.) Or was this clearly a serious injury? Was Sugar growling while on top of the puppy or vicious, exposing his teeth and growling?

My 14 year old yorkie, Tahoe, wasn't thrilled with Johnny Cash after the first day or two of Cash being here...but it's been about 3 months and Tahoe has set the boundries as the Master of the House. He growls at Cash when Cash is getting irritating and he growls at Cash whenever Cash tries to lay next to Tahoe. But, for the most part, Tahoe has accepted this little nuisance that has come into our life (LOL!) and deals. However, I have made extra efforts to make Tahoe feel the change less. When Tahoe is obviously getting annoyed by Cash, I will take Tahoe separately into the bedroom and put him on the bed (which is too high for Cash to jump onto) so we can be alone. I stroke him and pet him and tell him how much I love him. I lay next to him on the bed and we have "alone time" for about 20 minutes and he seems to appreciate it. Also, whenever a guest comes into the house, they're nature is to go to greet the puppy first. I always greet them by saying "Say hello to Tahoe first" and they do. Tahoe feels good about that and wags his tail away. I also have rules where Tahoe is always the first to be put on the bed at night when we all go to bed. Cash has to wait by the bed until Tahoe finally arrives and I put Tahoe on the bed and then Cash follows once Tahoe is on the bed. Also, I'm very clear to push Cash away from Tahoe when Cash is "getting in Tahoe's face" too much. I say "No, Cash!" and push him away. By doing so, Tahoe knows that I'm protecting him and that I acknowledge the invasion in his life.

As far as your two dogs, I wonder if it is counterproductive to separate them. They'll never bond if you keep them separated. Sugar just needs to learn how to deal and I don't think Sugar will if you keep them apart.

~ Kelly

[Judy in Waco]

I probably was overreacting and they probably were playing, but it was terrifying at the time. I had no idea dogs could "play" that viciously. Yes, there was growling and teeth showing and my husband said that Sugar definitely had a hold of the puppy (Yorkie) at about the neck area and was shaking her head...whether or not the puppy was being shaken, I don't know. This all happened so fast! We still haven't found any signs that the puppy was injured in any way.

Can I risk NOT separating them? I don't know.

[ARCHIE]

I am glad Gizmo was not injured.
I can't help you but hope you find a solution to your delema.
Sugar may be just protecting what she believe to be hers and
sees the puppy as an intruder.
Hope things work out for you.

[jrsygal37]

Hey. I was going to ask the same question " Are you sure it was an attack." I have found that atleast for us there have been a couple of scares with my four year old female and ten year old male and Jersey. Jersey is nosy and hasn't learned manners fully yet. I've seen Bella literally ontop of jersey and Jersey scream and I like you an petrified. No marks though. Not even a wet spot on Jersey. It was all noise to let the pup know she's done wrong. They have to establish a pecking order and this is how they do it. Elaine

[chachi]

Ask groomers and your vet. Alot of time they can recommend a trainer for you. Best of luck

[Yorkiedaze]

I saw a segment on the dog whisperer of the same thing. He took the attacker by the scruff of the neck and made him lay on his side till he gave in and calmed down. He had the dog that was attacked stand right in front of the attacker. I think what this does is put the attacker in the order of the pack that he's supposed to be in. Anyway, I do agree that a behaviorest needs to be brought in, or maybe look thru these video's and see if you can find one that would help you try to correct this behavior yourself.

http://channel.nationalgeographic.co.../dogwhisperer/

[DesertChildAZ]

Maybe you can start off by separating them and then slowly putting them together for gradually more time (in your company of course). Start by allowing them to interact for 15 minutes with you in the room. Then separate them. Then do it for 30 minutes the next time. If there is any growling, reprimand the instigator and separate them. Here's what I try to remember...if Johnny jumps on Tahoe and Tahoe growls, I don't reprimand Tahoe. He's just trying to show the puppy that what he's doing is wrong. So, I reprimand the puppy for jumping on Tahoe. I pet Tahoe and say "It's okay, you tell him, Tahoe." Then I push the puppy away. Why do I do this when it seems like Tahoe is the guilty one? Because the puppy will never understand that he can't jump all over Tahoe (just like he can't jump all over guests) unless I reprimand him for it. Tahoe has his own personal boundaries just like people do and I'm not going to reprimand him for setting his. They aren't unreasonable boundaries. He doesn't growl at the puppy UNLESS the puppy is overwearing his welcome...jumping on him, biting Tahoe's ears, trying to nurse from Tahoe wee wee...which he did when he first arrived. So I try to allow him to let the puppy know his boundaries.

You can also reward Sugar if, at the end of the 30 minutes they haven't fought...give Sugar a treat (and give the puppy a treat sitting right beside Sugar) and return Sugar to the other side of the gate until it's time to reacquaint them again. Now, if they fight, I say "no treat" and put the puppy/Sugar on the other side of the gate WITHOUT a treat.

That said, I would keep them on two sides of a baby gate while you are not home or not present...at least until they get along and until the puppy has grown quite a bit. After 3 months, I was able to draw the conclusion that they could live together once I saw Cash lay down next to Tahoe and Tahoe didn't growl at him.

Also, not sure how long you have had the puppy (weeks?)...but Tahoe was sad and depressed about the puppy for a good two months before he started to turn around. If it hasn't been 2-3 months, then I would give them time. Sugar is used to having free reign of the home and full attention and likely to be a little miffed about losing these freedoms and it's not unusual for him to take it out on the puppy.

[Judy in Waco]

Originally Posted by DesertChildAZ

Maybe you can start off by separating them and then slowly putting them together for gradually more time (in your company of course). Start by allowing them to interact for 15 minutes with you in the room. Then separate them. Then do it for 30 minutes the next time. If there is any growling, reprimand the instigator and separate them. Here's what I try to remember...if Johnny jumps on Tahoe and Tahoe growls, I don't reprimand Tahoe. He's just trying to show the puppy that what he's doing is wrong. So, I reprimand the puppy for jumping on Tahoe. I pet Tahoe and say "It's okay, you tell him, Tahoe." Then I push the puppy away. Why do I do this when it seems like Tahoe is the guilty one? Because the puppy will never understand that he can't jump all over Tahoe (just like he can't jump all over guests) unless I reprimand him for it. Tahoe has his own personal boundaries just like people do and I'm not going to reprimand him for setting his. They aren't unreasonable boundaries. He doesn't growl at the puppy UNLESS the puppy is overwearing his welcome...jumping on him, biting Tahoe's ears, trying to nurse from Tahoe wee wee...which he did when he first arrived. So I try to allow him to let the puppy know his boundaries.

You can also reward Sugar if, at the end of the 30 minutes they haven't fought...give Sugar a treat (and give the puppy a treat sitting right beside Sugar) and return Sugar to the other side of the gate until it's time to reacquaint them again. Now, if they fight, I say "no treat" and put the puppy/Sugar on the other side of the gate WITHOUT a treat.

That said, I would keep them on two sides of a baby gate while you are not home or not present...at least until they get along and until the puppy has grown quite a bit. After 3 months, I was able to draw the conclusion that they could live together once I saw Cash lay down next to Tahoe and Tahoe didn't growl at him.

Also, not sure how long you have had the puppy (weeks?)...but Tahoe was sad and depressed about the puppy for a good two months before he started to turn around. If it hasn't been 2-3 months, then I would give them time. Sugar is used to having free reign of the home and full attention and likely to be a little miffed about losing these freedoms and it's not unusual for him to take it out on the puppy.

We have had Gizmo (puppy) for about three weeks....so it's not much time at all. Part of our issue is that in the past we've only had one dog at a time. I think WE need to be trained rather than Sugar and Gizmo, so I will contact the head of the rescue where we found Sugar and see if she can recommend a trainer/behaviorist.

If there weren't such a weight difference, I would have NO problem letting them work out their differences, but...

Thanks everyone! You've given me a lot to think about.

Funny thing?...Gizmo is still trying to play with Sugar and doesn't seem afraid of her at all. His heartrate goes up when he sees her, but that could be that my fear is being communicated through him, or it could be he's just excited to see Sugar!

This is breaking my heart. I appreciate your help and support.